Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:52)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:48)Let's not forget that fathers naturally have a position higher than their sons.And let's not forget that gods naturally have a higher position than those they are the god of.  So Jesus is lesser than his God and Father on at least two counts.  And even though Jesus is “…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:48)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:36)Why do you refer to Heb 1:8 as 'a' theos instead of 'the' theos?Why does scripture refer to the Father as “a god”?  Anyone who is “THE god” of anything is, by necessity, “A god”, right?And it is abundantly clear from Heb 1:9 that this particular god, who was mentioned…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:42)Oh, and don't forget that the nation of Israel was also “called by the name of YHWH”.  Does that make THEM “YHWH Himself”?Kathi, stop looking for specks and ignoring the planks.The speck is that Israel is called BY the name of YHVH. All of us, if we are truly Christians are called by the name of YHVH. That…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:41)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:32)Mike,Gen 15 clearly says that the Word of Yahweh is Yahweh.And many people in the OT refer to the angel God sent as “YHWH”.Are you saying that Jesus is one of God's many angels?  Because you can't have it both ways, Kathi.Jesus is not one of many created angels. He was…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:39)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:11)And Israel saw the great strong hand of God, what He did to the Egyptians. They feared God and believed in His Word and in His servant Moses.So would this “Word” have been the angel of God that God sent ahead of the Israelites?Mike,From what I can tell, the Angel of…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,19:36)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,09:10)There is a difference between those sons who are merely called theos and the only one who was begotten as theos.Agreed.  Jesus was the firstborn, while all the others came after.  Jesus has been endowed with much more, since he received the firstborn's share of the i…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2013,08:11)Quote (Lightenup @ April 19 2013,11:03)Kerwin,The belief in the two powers of Yahweh was a teaching of the Jews. Read this:http://www.twopowersinheaven.com/LU,Some off the Canaanites, polytheists, believed in two essential powers.  Dr. Michael S. Heiser is interpretation the Hebrew bible in its Canaanite…[Read more]

Hi jb2u,You said that Jesus is Lord of everyone except God.Who did the OT Jews believe was the Lord of everyone?

jb2u,So what or who is Jesus Lord of?

So jb2u,Why would Jesus be a theos in the beginning if He was not to have authority over anyone as a theos?Let's try this…you say He is Lord and that is true. Is God also Lord in your understanding?

jb2u,My question to you was: who is Jesus a theos for. For instance, there is a god of Ekron for instance. Who is Jesus a theos of?? Please answer this before I take your new questions. Thanks.

Abe,No, the people that get the name written on them are not God.

Hi Charles,Yes, I see eternal unity. Holy Elohim are He.

Kerwin,The belief in the two powers of Yahweh was a teaching of the Jews. Read this:http://www.twopowersinheaven.com/

Mike,you said:Quote But don't forget that the god mentioned in verse 8 has a God of his own who anointed him and set him above his companions in verse 9. So the god mentioned in verse 8 is obviously not “THE God” – as in the Most High God. Instead, it was the Most High God in verse 9 who anointed this other god, and set him on high.Let's not…[Read more]

Now Mike, jammin made it clear to you that it depends on how you use the word 'being.' He agrees with me that they are two individual beings in this quote:Quote t depends on how you use the word beingdo you understand what i mean?you said kerwin and his father are two individual BEINGS.yes it is true. in that sentence, the word “being” refer to…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2013,21:35)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,08:47)Mike,Actually Heb 1:8 has the article 'the' as in 'the God.'Yes, I know Kathi.  You snooze, you lose.  Kerwin already pointed that out pages ago (although I've know about the word “ho” in that verse for years, thanks to discussions with Jack and Keith).But don't f…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2013,21:39)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,08:39)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,20:31)Yeah Pierre.  It's hard to read Heb 1:8 and still refuse to believe Jesus is a god.It is hard to believe that you have trouble connecting the theos of Heb 1:8 who is the' Word' of John 1:1 with the 'Word of Jehovah' in Gen 15:1-7…[Read more]

“Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me…”The Father's name is Jehovah/Yahweh.

Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2013,21:00)Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,20:43)Kerwin,You neglect the Jewish understanding of the “Word of Jehovah” as given to us in the Targums. The Targums reflect the Jewish understanding of that title. The Targums apply that title to the Jehovah that speaks to them. The OT tells us clearly that the Word of Jehovah…[Read more]