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[david999]

Quote (david999 @ Nov. 15 2004,06:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2004,03:39) cont. so when Jesus said to the Jews “Truly ,truly I say unto you. Before Abraham was born ,I AM” he was simply stating the truth, not saying He was the Father but he existed in the beginning with the Father. Hello I am new to this. I have a question or a statement which has plagued me for some time. My assumption is as follows: 1.  The God is one and is unbegotten 2.  The Word is the only begotten. My question is: Was there a time when the God (Father) was alone? Thus; Did the Farher “remember” a time when the Son (Logos) did not exist? I will explain my feelings on this. God is the source of the Son. He is also unchanging. The Father did not “come up” with the idea of having a Son. My conclusion on this is that the Father is eternal in a sense which the Son is not and yet the Son is eternal and yet contingent. The Father is eternal and not contingent. I call this a conclusion and yet it is tentative. I am a seeker. I am not here to teach or to regale anyone with my profundity or knowledge but rather to learn. I consider myself to be woefully ignorant on the things of God and am not by nature a philosopher. I am open to any help in resolving this tentative “conclusion”.

Hello Nick??

Navigating this forum is a little strange to me. I think I am replying to the post that first reponded to me. It was helpful and i am interested in reading some of the writings quoted.

The problem with modern Christianity is that it threatens the honest seeker with “damnation” and all manner of woes for not subscribing to the orthodoxy( “essentials of the faith”). It is clear that a person who is honest cannot accept what they cannot understand or believe. The Father is revealed by the son who cannot do anything of himself. He is, as you say, the expression of the Father. My problem was and, to some extent, still is that the Father was never expressionless(I think). That “time” was created by God perplexes me and anyone who thinks as any human would. The natural tendency is to imagine a “divine time” in which the Father creates “natural” time. But as you say God knows all and he knows each one of us. His knowing is from eternity and therefore we are from eternity as a thought in the mind of the Eternal. We are not begotten but are the result of the creation which we are told is the work of the Logos. Christ must be differentiated from us and this is accomplished by his being described as the only begotten one. I am still left with no clear definition which explains “begotten” as opposed to created. I am left to “philosophizing” or guessing. The scriptures are not explicit on this and I am guessing that it is to be revealed to the genuine seeker. The Trinity doctrine is a crude attempt to bridge this gap but it ends up contradicting Christ's own words. Christ goes at great lengths to deny that he is the equal of his Father but then, on the other hand, explicitly states that he who has seen him has seen the Father. The son is exactly as the Father would be if He, the Father, could be visible to us. The ineffable becomes comprehensible ONLY through the Son. Communion with the Father is only possible through the mediation of the Son. I understand this as an essential truth. In any case, I am part way there but still a bit perplexed. God is at no time without expression. Christ is His expression towards us. Christ as Logos must be the one whom Elohim implies when He speaks of “in our image” or “Let US make man in our image.

If, as you say, God created time then the expression “before” begetting is impossible or befuddling. The nature of the Eternal then cannot be understood by us mere humans. The only way He can be understood is by His Logos who is with Him at the begininng and is begotten and not created. This is as far as i can go at this time.

David999 who is seeking and has been helped by this forum but who can honestly say that he is not there yet.

David

[david999]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2004,03:39)

cont. so when Jesus said to the Jews “Truly ,truly I say unto you. Before Abraham was born ,I AM” he was simply stating the truth, not saying He was the Father but he existed in the beginning with the Father.

Hello

I am new to this. I have a question or a statement which has plagued me for some time. My assumption is as follows:

1.  The God is one and is unbegotten
2.  The Word is the only begotten.

My question is: Was there a time when the God (Father) was alone? Thus; Did the Farher “remember” a time when the Son (Logos) did not exist?

I will explain my feelings on this. God is the source of the Son. He is also unchanging. The Father did not “come up” with the idea of having a Son. My conclusion on this is that the Father is eternal in a sense which the Son is not and yet the Son is eternal and yet contingent. The Father is eternal and not contingent. I call this a conclusion and yet it is tentative. I am a seeker. I am not here to teach or to regale anyone with my profundity or knowledge but rather to learn. I consider myself to be woefully ignorant on the things of God and am not by nature a philosopher. I am open to any help in resolving this tentative “conclusion”.

[david999]

This is a test by a guest. Just getting the lay of the land

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