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[hoghead1]

I’ve already presented a number of biblical passages both to you and some other members here.  I am not bout to repeat myself. As to proving something, about the only thing you have proved so far is that you want to vilify the Christian religion.

[hoghead1]

Your argument was that the Son is not eternal. I was simply pointing out to you that your view here would invalidate the Father as well from being eternal. It doesn’t take rocket science to see that. Now, if you hold, as you claim you do, that the Father is eternal, then so, too, must be the Son.  That also does not take rocket science to understand.

[hoghead1]

Well, had you bothered to study deeply Scripture and the Trinity, you would realize there is a biblical foundation to it. But, of course, you are so much smarter, wiser, and afar  more  motivated by the Spirit than anyone, any major figure or otherwise, who holds to the Christian religion that you know you are absolutely  right and they, poor souls, are automatically all wrong.

[hoghead1]

I can and will state with conviction that you are not interested in digging very deep.  That is well shown by your lack of  advanced education in biblical studies and theology.

[hoghead1]

When you can demonstrate to me that you are fluent in biblical languages and a real student of theology, then I will be happy to consider  you one well with it to get into the ring with for some real workout.  So far, about the only challenge I receive from you is to respond to your anti-intellectual rantings  and contempt for the Christian religion.

[hoghead1]

I am not a cult leader.  Neither do I claim I am so deeply moved by teh Spirit that I know Scripture better than  all those who embrace the Christian religion.  That’s your department.

[hoghead1]

Read again.  If the Father is eternal, then so is the Son.

[hoghead1]

My point stands about pride and arrogance dominating the self-appointed false prophets who seek to vilify the Christian religion.

[hoghead1]

A common ploy used by cult leaders is to try and vilify all critics and all aspects of the Christian religion  they disagree  with by discounting them as all  representing  “wisdom of the  world.” This represents a serious misuse and abuse of Scripture.  In point of fact, what Scripture  criticizes as “wisdom of the world” is precisely anti-Trinitarian thinking, the notion that Christ is just another prophet or inspired teacher, certainly not God. So if there is anyone here going on the “wisdom of teh World, it is you.

[hoghead1]

Well, we are already debating.  As for some sort of big debate, no, I’m not interested.  You’d have to demonstrate to me you had a solid biblical and theological education, which you have yet to do.

[hoghead1]

Hi again, t8,

You can go on an anti-intellectual  rant all you want about the “wisdom of the world.”  All you have presented is a bogus argument. that backfires on you.  You, too, are part of the wisdom of the  world and so  have done nothing but state you own homespun opinions of the Trinity.  I can’t think of a faster way to be pulled off track  from Scripture  than listening to the opinions  of  a bunch of self-appointed bar-stool  apostles  who think they are so much more motivated and guided  by the Spirit than anyone else and so really have no need to study or respect any form of scholarship, especially that represented by  the church fathers and  other  great thinkers, and  believe themselves to be especially empowered by God to cast aspersion on the Christian religion by attacking  central teachings such as the Trinity.

[hoghead1]

HI again, t8,

It takes a lot more to really dig into the depths of Scripture than just the  mere conviction you are right because you believe you were moved by the Spirit.  Every kook and nutcase and fanatic in the book claims that they are right. that they and they alone were truly moved by the Spirit.  So forget that kind of argument.  Doesn’t even begin to cut it with me.  I want to see a solid case made, a solid rational argument presented, before I take seriously what some Tom, Dick, or Harry out there claims about Scripture.  That means I need to see some real expertise shown.  Given that Scripture is generally presented in translation form,  and given that translations never do justice to the original text, I am not impressed with anyone unless I am pretty sure they can read the Bible in the original languages.  That’s why I listen to the biblical scholars, not opinionated laity and other amateurs. I realize you and some other members here  really enjoy downing scholars, major church fathers, theologians.  However, all that really goes to prove is how arrogant you are.

[hoghead1]

HI again, t8,

Sorry, t8, that really doesn’t answer any of my questions.  If anything, your response makes your position appear even more untenable, as now you feel teh Father isn’t eternal either.  So if  the Father and Son aren’t eternal, who  or what is?

[hoghead1]

HI, t8,

Your reference to science seems way off topic, not an analogous situation.  The rest of your post shows you want to unduly attack the “experts” as being all “biased” simply because they do not agree with your views.    so, forget it.   No takers here.

[hoghead1]

HI, t8,

OK, so at what point prior to creation did Christ come along?  Why?  How? At what point did God teh Father come along?  If the Son is not eternal, then neither is the Father, as you can’t be a Father  without a Son?  So, what was leading up to these major changes in God prior to creation? What would you call God prior to being either Father  and Son?

[hoghead1]

HI, t8,

Generally, scholars understand Philippians to be claiming  that Christ preexisted as God and that the surrendered  certain  privileges of such divinity in order to accomplish his mission.  That is based on a keener understanding of the Greek here than what you have.  That is way some Bible translations simply read “who being in very nature God.”

[hoghead1]

HI, 942767,

Sorry, no takers here.  First, you affirm predestination, which is neither a rational teaching nor a biblical one.  Secondly, you overlook biblical passages that speak of Christ as the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning creation and its ultimate culmination.

Also, I don’t have the time to look at material on youtube, which may or may not be solid material, to start with.  My advice is skip all that junk.  Read  major historical works, such as Augustine’s “De Trinitate.”

[hoghead1]

Hi, Ed,

I didn’t say you didn’t do your own study.  The issue is, Study of what?  What sources do you use?  I have yet to see you demonstrate any knowledge or study of any Trinitarian writings or doctrines or solid sources of biblical scholarship.

[hoghead1]

Hi, Ed,

2 Cor. 5:19 is a major passage Trinitarians appeal to.  In that you missed this point her and in another post, that tells me you are not familiar with Trinitarian doctrines.

[hoghead1]

Hi, Ed,

Passages such as  Jn. 14:10-11 and also Jn. 14:20 are those used to support the Trinity, however.  You would know tht, had you reread anything on the doctrines and rationale for the  Trinity.

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