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Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2009,16:48) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 23 2009,12:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,11:48) Hi Jodi,
The Man Jesus is the Christ, anointed at the Jordan.
Born of David according to the flesh and Son of God according to the Spirit.But none of these facts deny his unique origins.
WHY would they DENY his unique origin? On the contrary don't they DECLARE his origin? Jesus is the man created from God's direct will of whom He promised to bring into existence.
Jodi.Jesus origins are not around 0AD, but way before that according to scripture.
Glory to God through Jesus Christ before all ages.
Through Jesus CHRIST, you said t8, through all ages!!The CHRIST is the MAN born of the seed of David, where does scripture say that Christ was anything else?
t8 is it your belief then that a human being of the seed of David literally existed in the beginning with the Father, not as a promise to come, but as a person who actually existed?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,14:59) Hi TT,
The Lord was appointed to be Saviour by our Saviour God.
You get so muddled for a thinker.
So we have two Saviors then? God said, “there is no Savior besides Me.”If not two Saviors for you then why not two gods?
thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 23 2009,17:49) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2009,16:48) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 23 2009,12:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,11:48) Hi Jodi,
The Man Jesus is the Christ, anointed at the Jordan.
Born of David according to the flesh and Son of God according to the Spirit.But none of these facts deny his unique origins.
WHY would they DENY his unique origin? On the contrary don't they DECLARE his origin? Jesus is the man created from God's direct will of whom He promised to bring into existence.
Jodi.Jesus origins are not around 0AD, but way before that according to scripture.
Glory to God through Jesus Christ before all ages.
Through Jesus CHRIST, you said t8, through all ages!!The CHRIST is the MAN born of the seed of David, where does scripture say that Christ was anything else?
t8 is it your belief then that a human being of the seed of David literally existed in the beginning with the Father, not as a promise to come, but as a person who actually existed?
Jodi! I will answer you, since I believe by Scripture that Jesus preexsisted His Birth as a Human Being.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
verse 16 For by Him asll things were created tht are in Heaven and that are in Earth, visible and invisible……
verse 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consistr.
Rev. 2:14..” Therefore things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the cration of God.
This is pretty clear to me, and I hope that you will see it too.
Peace andLove IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,14:59) Hi TT,
The Lord was appointed to be Saviour by our Saviour God.
You get so muddled for a thinker.
Look who gets the glory. It is Christ.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 23 2009,19:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,14:59) Hi TT,
The Lord was appointed to be Saviour by our Saviour God.
You get so muddled for a thinker.
Look who gets the glory. It is Christ.thinker
Shall we call you muddled thinker now?
Peace and Lve IreneQuote (georg @ Sep. 23 2009,19:49) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 23 2009,19:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,14:59) Hi TT,
The Lord was appointed to be Saviour by our Saviour God.
You get so muddled for a thinker.
Look who gets the glory. It is Christ.thinker
Shall we call you muddled thinker now?
Peace and Lve Irene
Nick said we have two Saviors. Do you agree? God said, “there is no Savior besides Me.” How is it that anti-trinitarians believe it when God says that there is no God besides Himself but they will allow for two Saviors when God said that there is no other?thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus was given all authority too.
Do you think God then had no authority?Our Saviour God made Jesus our Saviour.
Do you want to rewrite scripture because it muddles your thinking?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,20:09) Hi TT,
Jesus was given all authority too.
Do you think God then had no authority?Our Saviour God made Jesus our Saviour.
Do you want to rewrite scripture because it muddles your thinking?
Nick,
I never said that God had no authority. I have said that the authority given to Christ is the authority of God Himself. This is where you anti-trinitarians get all tripped up. You really deny that Jesus has “all authority.” You all speak like Christ is kept in check by God or something. But Christ said that He had the power to reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills (Matthew 11:27).In other words Nick, the one you kick in the teeth is the very same who revealed the Father to you according to His own will. You say that the Father is above Jesus now. Fine. But remember that it was His choice to reveal the Father to you. Yet you trample on Him like a pig tramples in the mud.
thinker
Hi TT,
The Father is the God of the Jews[jn8] and Jesus[Jn20].
But you have adopted a new and strange one?Is your God not that of Jesus and the Jews?
Perhaps now you serve a babylonian one?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,20:27) Hi TT,
The Father is the God of the Jews[jn8] and Jesus[Jn20].
But you have adopted a new and strange one?Is your God not that of Jesus and the Jews?
Perhaps now you serve a babylonian one?
Jesus is a “strange” god? God's apppointed Lord and Savior is a “strange” god?Strange statement indeed. Did the Son reveal the Father to you or not?
thinker
Hi TT,
You say Jesus is YHWH, the God of the Jews.
But he says the Father is that God.[Jn8.54]Why would you find lies in his mouth when scripture says none were ever there?
You vain thinking leads to deep ditches
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,21:14) Hi TT,
You say Jesus is YHWH, the God of the Jews.
But he says the Father is that God.[Jn8.54]Why would you find lies in his mouth when scripture says none were ever there?
You vain thinking leads to deep ditches
You know Nick I do like to debate Scriptures, but what I don't like is when it gets personal. And you and thinker has just done so. Please take into concideration, that we don't all know all the truths. We all fall short of the glory of God.
I love all of you and please be kind to each other.
Peaceand Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,21:14) Hi TT,
You say Jesus is YHWH, the God of the Jews.
But he says the Father is that God.[Jn8.54]Why would you find lies in his mouth when scripture says none were ever there?
You vain thinking leads to deep ditches
Nick,
You say He is a “strange” god whom God appointed as Lord, Savior, Christ and even “God.”The Son of the Father's love is a “strange” god to you?
thinker
Hi TT,
If you worship the God of Jesus and the Jews and now worship another god as well what does that say?Thinker……….”YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GODS BESIDES ME” INTERESTING YOU TRINITARIANS HAVE THREE YOU CALL GOD. Jesus said (THOU) ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”, GOD SAID HE LOOK FOR ANOTHER AND SAID THERE WAS “NO OTHER GOD” BUT HIM ALONE. HE SAID (NONE) BUT ME. What part of those scriptures you can't get into you trinitarian head. This is why we can't move forward Here you trinitarians keep continually mudding the waters with you (MYSTERY RELIGION) teachings. IMO
gene
Thinker let me see if I can help you understand what the trinity means. First of all, it is not written in the Bible. It is Man made doctrine. This is out of my Husbands Book and mostly His understanding of Scriptures, but I agree with it all.
He studied Ancient History, and this is what He came up with.
Quintus Septimus Flornes Tertullian who was born in Carthrage Africa in A. D. 155
It is the trinity doctrine that was his greatest achievement to Christianity, so they say.
But it was Constantine after almost three Century of brutal and bloody persecution,the Roman emperor Constantine in A.D. 313, issued an edit granting all Christians full freedom to practice their religion.
In A.D. 324 He issued an edit forbidding work on Sundays and making that a day of worship.
In A.D. 325 He establishes Christianity as the official relion of his empire. It will be known as the Roman Universal Church. He did many things like making all holidays into Holy Days like Christmas and Easter.
Those days are pagan ideas. That we should come out of. We have. Is it easy, NOOO. especially if you have Family who does not believe what you do. We have to use our sensitivity and kindness in those days. I first made our children made with all. I have somewhat revised those days. I will not have a tree or Nativity scene etc. in our Home. But since we still have a 8 year old grandson who can't understand, what Grandpa and Grandma understand ,we do give Him gifts on Christmas. Also our Daughter is a single Mother, raising Her two children, as best as She can.. We help as much as we can.
Yes,this World today is so wrong. I am forever looking forward to Christ's return. I am 71 years old who knows how much longer I will live. I have Lupus and I really should be dead, but by the grace of God, He has kept me alive. I wa 40 when I was Diagnosed with Lupus. People with that Decease do not live longer then 15-20 years, from the onset. According to that I should be dead sometime ago.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (thethinker @ Sep. 23 2009,20:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,20:09) Hi TT,
Jesus was given all authority too.
Do you think God then had no authority?Our Saviour God made Jesus our Saviour.
Do you want to rewrite scripture because it muddles your thinking?
Nick,
I never said that God had no authority. I have said that the authority given to Christ is the authority of God Himself. This is where you anti-trinitarians get all tripped up. You really deny that Jesus has “all authority.” You all speak like Christ is kept in check by God or something. But Christ said that He had the power to reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills (Matthew 11:27).In other words Nick, the one you kick in the teeth is the very same who revealed the Father to you according to His own will. You say that the Father is above Jesus now. Fine. But remember that it was His choice to reveal the Father to you. Yet you trample on Him like a pig tramples in the mud.
thinker
Christ has the power to REVEAL the FATHER, the God of Old, YHWH!Christ is GIVEN the power so He can accomplish the WILL OF the FATHER!
Lu 11:2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
YHWH is the sacred NAME is it not. YHWH is not the name of Jesus, but clearly the Father.
Ps 8:6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,
Heb 2:7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
Jesus has authority over the works of something that is NOT his, but the Fathers'. This authority is to accomplish the will of the Fathers' and to reveal the Father. Jesus is CLEARLY STILL the Father's SERVANT.
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers,
Jesus is STILL doing the Father's WORK, he is still working to bring forth the Father's promises.
Notice how once again Jesus is NOT the God of Old here. YHWH made the promises, and Jesus is not carrying out his promises but that of the Father's. So clearly YHWH is the Father, and Jesus is most certainly NOT!
Jodi……….Amen, Amen, Sis you have nailed it perfectly. If only people could understand that, this whole site would move forward in truth. IMO
Peace and Love to you and yours Jodi……………..gene
If Jesus were YHWH then the God of whom the Hebrews knew would be himself, however Jesus always declares the God of old as being His Father.
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
I have yet been told how exactly the Trinitarians deal with the word God in the bible. It is said that there are not three gods but three people making up one God. However when the word God is used in the bible this understanding does not fit. Jesus clearly identifies himself not as God in the above, but as the person God sent. The people want to know what shall they do that they may do the works of God, seems this God must represent not one part of God but ALL of God, and Jesus is clearly identified as NOT THAT God. The work of God is to believe in Jesus, are we told that we should believe that Jesus is the God of Old, or that Jesus is the MAN of the seed of David of whom the God would send?
30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' 32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Once again we see the word ‘God’ being related ONLY to the Father, and Jesus is not that God but that which the Father produces.
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” 41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, 'I have come down from heaven'?” 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
The God that spoke to the prophets was NOT Jesus, as Hebrews 1:1 confirms also, but is SOLELY the FATHER! This makes YHWH solely the FATHER! Jesus is declared as being FROM GOD, not being God, which makes sense given the fact that Jesus is called the Son OF God.
According to Trinitarians God equals the person known as the Father, the person known as god the son, and the person known as the Holy Spirit. How is it then that in scripture the Father can ALONE be called God? As well, how is it that God even existed during the time that god the son turned into a human? If Jesus had to receive everything from the Father and could do nothing himself, then the ROLE that Jesus played as god the son is NOT needed for God to actually exist. So truly the trinity is a complete load of crap!
If God is three persons, but one of those persons became dependent upon one of the other persons then basically, while Jesus was a man dependent on the Father, the world had NO god.
John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
Once again we see God distinguished SOLELY as the FATHER, and we see Jesus distinguished as a MAN, the Christ.
Would not the Father be seeking for people to worship God as the trinity? Why does He call for people to worship HIM separately?
Scripture tells us why..
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
There is NO god that exists made up of three persons. There is ONE God, known as the Father!
The Father wants us to worship Him as the One True God of whom are ALL things and by whom ALL things exist.
Ac 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Our Father wants us to know that Jesus is the Christ of whom He made and that He has given him the role Adam lost, which was to be the head honcho over heaven and earth!
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