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The true Gospel is not popular but Christianity blossomed under a different Gospel advanced by the Catholic Church and Rome, as well as the Greek Orthodox church. The majority of the world claims Christianity as its religion it is certainly the “wide” road.
The observation I made about Jesus and simply observing that Jesus is the “Son” of God precludes that God created him and also even if you didn't agree with that the one thing you will not SEE even though it is glaringly obvious is that The Bible says that Jesus is the Son of “God” Not the Son of the Father or the Son of a God but literally The Son of God.
But you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God because you believe that Jesus “is God and the Son of God” which means either one of two things.
Either God is a family name and it doesn't mean that God is the One above all or it means that there is the Son of God and The Father of God.
There can be no such thing as The Father of God in the truest sense.
This is why I am starting to understand that you really don't understand what it means to be “God”
Someone can be divine and have access to divinity and still not be even close to being God so a person could say Jesus is divine without calling Jesus “God”Also you seem to decide yourself that when the scripture says Son of God that God in that sense refers to the Father, how is it that God could not be the Holy Spirit in that sense?
Its because you see what you want and not what is written
Let God be a Witness between me and you that I have delivered to you the True Gospel of The Kingdom of God, this is the Gospel that Jesus Christ our lord delivered but you have received another Gospel calling the “Son” what was not told to you by him and not listening to what he said himself that The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD and there is no one else besides Him.
There is nothing new under the sun. Israel, wanted a King although God was their King so what did he do he gave them a King, Now you have wanted a God besides the One that has always been so you have one. Jesus is your God to the Glory of the Father, so may God forgive you because you know not what you do.
God has sent those to be Judges, Kings, Saviours and now he has sent someone because you wanted even God in the Flesh and so Although God has always been the Judge always been the King and has always been the Saviour because you wanted to have God in the flesh he Christened someone a Son, although God is not Christened and is not flesh as it is written GOD is a SPIRIT so blessed those who have not seen and yet still believe.
You have confused the anointed with the anointer, may God forgive you and I will keep you in my prayers.
Hi bodhitharta
Its pretty bad that you create a whole thread to attack me!
But have at it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
The true Gospel is not popular but Christianity blossomed under a different Gospel advanced by the Catholic Church and Rome, as well as the Greek Orthodox church. The majority of the world claims Christianity as its religion it is certainly the “wide” road.
Circular, for they all claim they have the “True Gospel” just as you do.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
The observation I made about Jesus and simply observing that Jesus is the “Son” of God precludes that God created him and also even if you didn't agree with that the one thing you will not SEE even though it is glaringly obvious is that The Bible says that Jesus is the Son of “God” Not the Son of the Father or the Son of a God but literally The Son of God.
Circular, Fathers don’t create sons, they take part in reproduction. Sons can be natural sons, or adopted sons, or declared sons.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
But you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God because you believe that Jesus “is God and the Son of God” which means either one of two things.Either God is a family name and it doesn't mean that God is the One above all or it means that there is the Son of God and The Father of God.
There can be no such thing as The Father of God in the truest sense.
Circular, Fathers have identical natures as there sons, Jesus is the “monogenes” the Only Unique Son of God. You should learn what that means. The Father declares Jesus to be his son but also declares Jesus to be God. So get your white out if you would like.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
This is why I am starting to understand that you really don't understand what it means to be “God”
And I am beginning to think that you do not know him, for he said with his own words…If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him”. John 14:
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Someone can be divine and have access to divinity and still not be even close to being God so a person could say Jesus is divine without calling Jesus “God”
There is only “One Divine Being”, sharing divine nature is not the same thing as “Being the One who is Divine! Now show me where scripture says Jesus shares Divine nature, and I will show you where he is God in nature. BTW what does “have access to divinity mean”?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Also you seem to decide yourself that when the scripture says Son of God that God in that sense refers to the Father, how is it that God could not be the Holy Spirit in that sense?
Circular, because when you see the word God you automatically think it is the Father.The Lord is that Spirit is he not?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Its because you see what you want and not what is writtenAre you looking in a mirror?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Let God be a Witness between me and you that I have delivered to you the True Gospel of The Kingdom of God, this is the Gospel that Jesus Christ our lord delivered but you have received another Gospel calling the “Son” what was not told to you by him and not listening to what he said himself that The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD and there is no one else besides Him.
Shall I look for fire and brimstone or run to the hills?Get real man, you know nothing of my relationship with God. The Father is my God according to scriptures, and Jesus is my Lord and God according to scriptures and the Holy Spirit is my God according to scriptures. You do believe they are One Spirit do you not? Who lives in you? Is it the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit? Can you tell the difference? It is so hypocritical of professing believers walking around saying God spoke to me one day, and then say Jesus spoke to me another day, and then say the Holy Spirit spoke to them another. Search the scriptures friend for all of these terms are in the scriptures. When you stop saying Jesus and the Spirit stopped talking to you then you can accuse Trinitarians. Unless you can tell me the difference when they speak then you need to get off your high horse and stop accusing Trinitarians for their belief.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
There is nothing new under the sun. Israel, wanted a King although God was their King so what did he do he gave them a King, Now you have wanted a God besides the One that has always been so you have one. Jesus is your God to the Glory of the Father, so may God forgive you because you know not what you do.
May he forgive you for your patronizing and self exalted, elitist Spirit!Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
God has sent those to be Judges, Kings, Saviours and now he has sent someone because you wanted even God in the Flesh and so Although God has always been the Judge always been the King and has always been the Saviour because you wanted to have God in the flesh he Christened someone a Son, although God is not Christened and is not flesh as it is written GOD is a SPIRIT so blessed those who have not seen and yet still believe.You have confused the anointed with the anointer, may God forgive you and I will keep you in my prayers.
Truthfully, I don’t need your prayers. You remind me of the high-min
ded scribes and Pharisees that hated Jesus and thought they knew so much. Please don’t pray for me to believe as you do.You should follow the disciples example when they…
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. “They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Matt 28:9
WJ
The problem with our Bible is, it talks with two tongues. I see both WJ and Bodhitharta are justified in their own way. We are debating here expecting who will win. I don't see a day in the near future to get it settled.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ April 25 2009,15:09) The problem with our Bible is, it talks with two tongues. I see both WJ and Bodhitharta are justified in their own way. We are debating here expecting who will win. I don't see a day in the near future to get it settled. Peace to you
Adam
The bible is fine even with errors as God can and will overcome for those who seek Him. It is the rebellious hearts of man that is flawed.Nick……..The same can be said of you my friend. The kettle shouldn't be calling the pot Black. When will you stop attacking and labeling People with your PRIDE . If anyone is confused Here it certainly is not ADAM. You just sit back and wait for an opportunity to trash some one, and all the time think you are doing GOD a service. You need to repent of this evil. IMO
peace and love to you…………………….gene
Adam………Remember it say a time will come when no more will a man teach his neighbor saying Know the LORD for they shall all Know of Me from the lest to the greatest. We all are waiting for that day brother, don't get discouraged by all the Gibberish it will all be straightened out in time brother. We only see in Part now, but in that day we will all see clearly. IMO
peace and love to you and yours ADAM………………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ April 25 2009,20:09) The problem with our Bible is, it talks with two tongues. I see both WJ and Bodhitharta are justified in their own way. We are debating here expecting who will win. I don't see a day in the near future to get it settled. Peace to you
Adam
This to me is sad, to put our Bible the King James version down. And what is so good about the Bibles you use? I have used the King James Bible ever since I became Baptized. We had a Catholic Bible and it is not much diffrent. Also the Moffat version, not much diffrent, and a German Bible. The tread is 'Quoting a post to worship Jesus.” I do not worship Jesus, worshipping belongs to our Father God. Jesus is our Mediator to come to the Father.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2009,19:31) Hi bodhitharta Its pretty bad that you create a whole thread to attack me!
But have at it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
The true Gospel is not popular but Christianity blossomed under a different Gospel advanced by the Catholic Church and Rome, as well as the Greek Orthodox church. The majority of the world claims Christianity as its religion it is certainly the “wide” road.
Circular, for they all claim they have the “True Gospel” just as you do.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
The observation I made about Jesus and simply observing that Jesus is the “Son” of God precludes that God created him and also even if you didn't agree with that the one thing you will not SEE even though it is glaringly obvious is that The Bible says that Jesus is the Son of “God” Not the Son of the Father or the Son of a God but literally The Son of God.
Circular, Fathers don’t create sons, they take part in reproduction. Sons can be natural sons, or adopted sons, or declared sons.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
But you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God because you believe that Jesus “is God and the Son of God” which means either one of two things.Either God is a family name and it doesn't mean that God is the One above all or it means that there is the Son of God and The Father of God.
There can be no such thing as The Father of God in the truest sense.
Circular, Fathers have identical natures as there sons, Jesus is the “monogenes” the Only Unique Son of God. You should learn what that means. The Father declares Jesus to be his son but also declares Jesus to be God. So get your white out if you would like.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
This is why I am starting to understand that you really don't understand what it means to be “God”
And I am beginning to think that you do not know him, for he said with his own words…If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him”. John 14:
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Someone can be divine and have access to divinity and still not be even close to being God so a person could say Jesus is divine without calling Jesus “God”
There is only “One Divine Being”, sharing divine nature is not the same thing as “Being the One who is Divine! Now show me where scripture says Jesus shares Divine nature, and I will show you where he is God in nature. BTW what does “have access to divinity mean”?Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Also you seem to decide yourself that when the scripture says Son of God that God in that sense refers to the Father, how is it that God could not be the Holy Spirit in that sense?
Circular, because when you see the word God you automatically think it is the Father.The Lord is that Spirit is he not?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Its because you see what you want and not what is writtenAre you looking in a mirror?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
Let God be a Witness between me and you that I have delivered to you the True Gospel of The Kingdom of God, this is the Gospel that Jesus Christ our lord delivered but you have received another Gospel calling the “Son” what was not told to you by him and not listening to what he said himself that The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD and there is no one else besides Him.
Shall I look for fire and brimstone or run to the hills?Get real man, you know nothing of my relationship with God. The Father is my God according to scriptures, and Jesus is my Lord and God according to scriptures and the Holy Spirit is my God according to scriptures. You do believe they are One Spirit do you not? Who lives in you? Is it the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit? Can you tell the difference? It is so hypocritical of professing believers walking around saying God spoke to me one day, and then say Jesus spoke to me another day, and then say the Holy Spirit spoke to them another. Search the scriptures friend for all of these terms are in the scriptures. When you stop saying Jesus and the Spirit stopped talking to you then you can accuse Trinitarians. Unless you can tell me the difference when they speak then you need to get off your high horse and stop accusing Trinitarians for their belief.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
There is nothing new under the sun. Israel, wanted a King although God was their King so what did he do he gave them a King, Now you have wanted a God besides the One that has always been so you have one. Jesus is your God to the Glory of the Father, so may God forgive you because you know not what you do.
May he forgive you for your patronizing and self exalted, elitist Spirit!Quote (bodhitharta @ April 25 2009,04:25)
God has sent those to be Judges, Kings, Saviours and now he has sent someone because you wanted even God in the Flesh and so Although God has always been the Judge always been the King and has always been the Saviour because you wanted to have God in the flesh he Christened someone a Son, although God is not Christened and is not flesh as it is written GOD is a SPIRIT so blessed those who have not seen and yet still bel
ieve.You have confused the anointed with the anointer, may God forgive you and I will keep you in my prayers.
Truthfully, I don’t need your prayers. You remind me of the high-minded scribes and Pharisees that hated Jesus and thought they knew so much. Please don’t pray for me to believe as you do.You should follow the disciples example when they…
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. “They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Matt 28:9
WJ
WJ,Once again do you not know what a Father is?
The term Father mainly means Originator or Creator.
The seed of children come from a Father but Mothers can have different children of other Fathers come from her womb.
The term son points to an origination within a Father now if you understand this you have to concede that Jesus is Originated by His Father, therefore he is the product of his Father.
His Father has no originator. You cannot say that Jesus was eternal although you can say he has eternal life, Jesus has not always lived as evidenced in his death.
The One and Only TRUE GOD whom Jesus Christ declares has always lived without death and will never die, He is the EVERLIVING GOD can you say this about Jesus?
Jesus died(Blessings be upon him forever) Now, Jesus is not dead but he died and that is the crux of the entire belief, correct?
God has never died even according to your own belief God raised Jesus(whom you call God) from the dead.
Jesus says he had the authority to rise from the dead through a command from God, do you believe Jesus needed assistance to raise from the dead?
Just because Jesus is Unique in his Sonship it doesn't even make him exclusive, now I will teach you something new
Hebrews 11
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Both of these verses use “monogenes” but we know that Abraham already had Ishmael years before Isaac so we know from this usage and knowledge of the story with confirmation of the scriptures that the word is used as in “The promised one” As Isaac was a child of a Promise Just as Christ Jesus was.
Sarah was barren and Mary was a Virgin but both were born through a Promise from God of blessing the world through Abrahams seed.
You have already read that men have been declared gods before and as a matter of fact the OT scripture Paul uses as a prophecy of God calling Jesus God is an actual incident of the psalmist calling a king God in a psalm, did you read that entire psalm? Notice Paul didn't say and the Spirit came upon me(or words to that effect) and I declared….
Notice Jesus when he quotes OT scripture he even said:
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
As far as access to divinity is concerned if Someone prays to the Father and a divine thing occurs does this person not have access to the divine? Didn't Jesus say that the Father does all the works through Jesus and Jesus said he could do nothing on his own?
I never say that Jesus spoke to me but I do say that the Spirit of God was upon me when I spoke a certain thing.
I must pray for you! but, to not be as I want you to be, but instead for you to be the way God wants you to be and I would ask you to do the same for let God be a witness between you and me.
Just to let you know, it is not odd that disciples of anyone to have reverence for their Master/teacher. Have you ever taken Martial arts or ever studied the history of the philosophers or the history of asian dynasties or have you ever watched MTV or do you even have a favorite beautiful actress you goggle at well, Brother Worship is not in short supply it is a natural trait of man to worship, I am Just asking that you Worship the creator that gave you that desire for a reason.
You don't even understand that just as God told Samuel that the people weren't rejecting Samuel they were rejecting God and Hence accepting Jesus is accepting God and guess what accepting Moses at the time was accepting God.
Oh How great it is the Glory and Study of OUR FATHER!
Make no mistake about it I LOVE JESUS, in -fact I LOVE JESUS so much that I must defend his honor against those who are in effect ANTI-CHRIST when was the last time you called Jesus The Christ? You know, Christ is not his name it's his function but you treat the word Christ like its a last name.
JESUS IS THE CHRIST as you know Satan can make evil seem good, so, calling Jesus “God” to you seems very innocent almost as innocent as eating a forbidden fruit such as Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who is “ME” in that sentence? Is that Jesus speaking? Is that the Father speaking? or is that the Holy Spirit speaking?
Which one of the trinity said that?
bodhitharta
That is about the best answer, and explanation I have seen yet on this forum.
Excellent job.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ April 26 2009,14:33) bodhitharta That is about the best answer, and explanation I have seen yet on this forum.
Excellent job.Georg
May God Bless you Always!Hi bodhitharta
Sorry but IMO your post is so full of holes I don't even know where to start.
One thing is very obvious to me though, and that is you do not understand anything about what a Trinitarian believes. No surprise though.
Most do not try to understand or even listen. When they see the word Trinitarian or worshipping Jesus they just shut you off.
Seriously though, you should go learn what a Trinitarian believes. You think it is because we believe Jesus is God. But scripturally it is a lot more than that.
I may say more later, but personally I do not like dealing with people who feel a need to patronize.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,17:54) Hi WJ,
God was in Christ.[2cor 5.19]Was it your trinity god within him?
Would that not make four.
Hi NHYou still building that strawman?
Jesus is in the Father. So does that mean the Father is not God?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Anyone who has the Spirit of God knows it unites the Father and the Son with us.
But what of this strange new trinity god?Hi WJ,
Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit[acts10]
Does that make five?The evolution of the binity still progresses?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 26 2009,17:42) Hi bodhitharta Sorry but IMO your post is so full of holes I don't even know where to start.
One thing is very obvious to me though, and that is you do not understand anything about what a Trinitarian believes. No surprise though.
Most do not try to understand or even listen. When they see the word Trinitarian or worshipping Jesus they just shut you off.
Seriously though, you should go learn what a Trinitarian believes. You think it is because we believe Jesus is God. But scripturally it is a lot more than that.
I may say more later, but personally I do not like dealing with people who feel a need to patronize.
Blessings WJ
I apologize if you feel that I have been patronizing but let me just say that I do know what trinitarians believeTrinitarians believe in a triune God a 3 in 1 God
They believe that God is singular and plural
They believe that God consists of 3 “persons”
Each person of this tri-unity is God individually
Each person of the tri-unity is God collectively
This means that individually that Jesus is God (1 God)
The Father is God(2 Gods) and the Holy Spirit is God(3 Gods)but Collectively trinitarians call this 3/1
Also trinitarians believe that The Son is not The Father or the Holy Spirit.
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son
This means that The Son(God) is not The Father(God) or The Holy Spirit(God)
So in the trinity God is not always God acting. What I mean is if I say that Jesus died and you say that Jesus was God if I asked you did the Father Die you would say no the Father(God) did not die. If I say did the Holy Spirit (God) die you would say no the Holy Spirit(God) did not die.
So by every individual action there are 2 negations of God
You get into a position of saying that God didn't do what God did unless there is more than 1 God to do something.
Trinitarians also believe that The Father initiates The Son cooperates and The Holy Spirit Fulfills
According to this belief when God say's “I will do it” He is really saying I will initiate it, Jesus will hand it over for the Holy Spirit to fulfill it.
I really am not trying to be comical about this but doesn't God have Angels who carry out His instructions?
Didn't angels minister to Jesus when he was weak? If you believe that the Holy Spirit is a “person” why did Jesus require angels to mister to him?
Now can you explain to me where I have misunderstood the trinity?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 27 2009,12:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 26 2009,17:42) Hi bodhitharta Sorry but IMO your post is so full of holes I don't even know where to start.
One thing is very obvious to me though, and that is you do not understand anything about what a Trinitarian believes. No surprise though.
Most do not try to understand or even listen. When they see the word Trinitarian or worshipping Jesus they just shut you off.
Seriously though, you should go learn what a Trinitarian believes. You think it is because we believe Jesus is God. But scripturally it is a lot more than that.
I may say more later, but personally I do not like dealing with people who feel a need to patronize.
Blessings WJ
I apologize if you feel that I have been patronizing but let me just say that I do know what trinitarians believeTrinitarians believe in a triune God a 3 in 1 God
They believe that God is singular and plural
They believe that God consists of 3 “persons”
Each person of this tri-unity is God individually
Each person of the tri-unity is God collectively
This means that individually that Jesus is God (1 God)
The Father is God(2 Gods) and the Holy Spirit is God(3 Gods)but Collectively trinitarians call this 3/1
Also trinitarians believe that The Son is not The Father or the Holy Spirit.
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son
This means that The Son(God) is not The Father(God) or The Holy Spirit(God)
So in the trinity God is not always God acting. What I mean is if I say that Jesus died and you say that Jesus was God if I asked you did the Father Die you would say no the Father(God) did not die. If I say did the Holy Spirit (God) die you would say no the Holy Spirit(God) did not die.
So by every individual action there are 2 negations of God
You get into a position of saying that God didn't do what God did unless there is more than 1 God to do something.
Trinitarians also believe that The Father initiates The Son cooperates and The Holy Spirit Fulfills
According to this belief when God say's “I will do it” He is really saying I will initiate it, Jesus will hand it over for the Holy Spirit to fulfill it.
I really am not trying to be comical about this but doesn't God have Angels who carry out His instructions?
Didn't angels minister to Jesus when he was weak? If you believe that the Holy Spirit is a “person” why did Jesus require angels to mister to him?
Now can you explain to me where I have misunderstood the trinity?
Hi bodhithartaThank you! You just proved my point!
You do not understand “scripturally” what a Trinitarian is or even why.
I suggest that you start at the “Trinity” thread and catch up on some reading.
And then try this…
You might pray and try being honest by having an open mind.
I hope you will.
You see I have been here for over 2 years and have read it all. I also have taken part in a whole lot of the dialogue, and in all that I have heard and read there has been no convincing evidence to cause me to deny the Jesus that saved me.
You guys are funny. You accuse Trinitarians for not talking about the Trinity or hardly ever teaching it in the churches, but then you come along and say that you understand what a Trinitarian is. The understanding you posted above is shallow and flawed.
The Trinitarian view is the best view for the whole council of God by taking in account “all of scripture”.
WJ
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