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Terraricca……….But you believe (YOUR) OWN So called “FREE” WILL determines what GOD will do right. So you are the one in control not GOD unless you give him permission to at least your Mind anyway. All that you have quoted above does Not in (ANYWAY) contradicts What Chosenone has said in fact it supports His conclusions. Skirting around quoted scriptures and post a Whole host of none relevant scriptures is just a smoke screen your using to change subject matter. Anyone with the Spirit of GOD can easily see that. IMO
gene
there are no more things to say in and on that subject ,all things have been said ,and you have recieved your answers in that topic ,anyone who read all the quotes can easy make up his own understanding on that subject of “freewill” it is all written down.
truth does not required help and support,lies do.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 14 2010,09:21) Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 14 2010,07:21) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2010,09:30) CO Isaiah 46:10 (Gods words)
Saying, All My councel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.see i quoted the same scriptures but it is not the same ,wen people get picky in there partial verses it has never be for the best,
wen you read the context it is more comprehensive
terraricca.
Please show me in what context that you refer to, that changes the meaning of Isaiah 46:10?
When God says “All My desire will I do”, please show the scripture that you say 'in context', changes the meaning of this scripture.Blessings, Jerry.
COIsa 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.WEN YOU QUOTE PARTIAL VERSES IT DOES NOT IMPLY THE SAMETINGS,
IN THIS WAY YOU ONLY QUOTE ; My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please,IT DOES NOT NOW IMPLY THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT HIS PLAN TO THE HUMAN RACE,
YOU ALSO USE A WORD LIKE “COUNCEL” AND TRY TO IMPLY THAT GOD USES A COUNCEL TO FULLFIL HIS WILL,WHAT IS NOT THE CASE IN ANY SCRIPTURES.
SO WHAT I SAY IF YOU WANT THE SCRIPTURES TO BACKUP YOUR THOUGHTS MAKE SURE IT IS IN A TRUE WAY.ACCORDING TO THE TRUTH.
terraricca.
You do not make any sense, the scripture you quoted does in no way negate the meaning of Isaiah 46:10.Also you say ” YOU ALSO USE A WORD LIKE “COUNCEL” AND TRY TO IMPLY THAT GOD USES A COUNCEL TO FULLFIL HIS WILL,WHAT IS NOT THE CASE IN ANY SCRIPTURES”.
Here is a scripture that uses the word you say doesn't appear in scripture… Eph.1:11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
This is an exact quote from my bible, as also is Isaiah 46:10.You also say “IT DOES NOT NOW IMPLY THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT HIS PLAN TO THE HUMAN RACE,”
Now have a look at what He (God) has to say about the 'consummation” the completion of His plan… 1Cor.15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
It might benefit you to read all of chapter 15, just so you will understand what He (God) has planned for all mankind.
So please don't answer with a lot of unrelevant scripture and say it's in “context”.Blessings, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 14 2010,12:46) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 14 2010,09:21) Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 14 2010,07:21) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2010,09:30) CO Isaiah 46:10 (Gods words)
Saying, All My councel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.see i quoted the same scriptures but it is not the same ,wen people get picky in there partial verses it has never be for the best,
wen you read the context it is more comprehensive
terraricca.
Please show me in what context that you refer to, that changes the meaning of Isaiah 46:10?
When God says “All My desire will I do”, please show the scripture that you say 'in context', changes the meaning of this scripture.Blessings, Jerry.
COIsa 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.WEN YOU QUOTE PARTIAL VERSES IT DOES NOT IMPLY THE SAMETINGS,
IN THIS WAY YOU ONLY QUOTE ; My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please,IT DOES NOT NOW IMPLY THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT HIS PLAN TO THE HUMAN RACE,
YOU ALSO USE A WORD LIKE “COUNCEL” AND TRY TO IMPLY THAT GOD USES A COUNCEL TO FULLFIL HIS WILL,WHAT IS NOT THE CASE IN ANY SCRIPTURES.
SO WHAT I SAY IF YOU WANT THE SCRIPTURES TO BACKUP YOUR THOUGHTS MAKE SURE IT IS IN A TRUE WAY.ACCORDING TO THE TRUTH.
terraricca.
You do not make any sense, the scripture you quoted does in no way negate the meaning of Isaiah 46:10.Also you say ” YOU ALSO USE A WORD LIKE “COUNCEL” AND TRY TO IMPLY THAT GOD USES A COUNCEL TO FULLFIL HIS WILL,WHAT IS NOT THE CASE IN ANY SCRIPTURES”.
Here is a scripture that uses the word you say doesn't appear in scripture… Eph.1:11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
This is an exact quote from my bible, as also is Isaiah 46:10.You also say “IT DOES NOT NOW IMPLY THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT HIS PLAN TO THE HUMAN RACE,”
Now have a look at what He (God) has to say about the 'consummation” the completion of His plan… 1Cor.15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
It might benefit you to read all of chapter 15, just so you will understand what He (God) has planned for all mankind.
So please don't answer with a lot of unrelevant scripture and say it's in “context”.Blessings, Jerry.
COIsa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.same as what fallows;
thanks for your reply,so i will reply to you;
;Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,this verse clearly state Paul saying that God as done is plan according to what he as determine to do long ago.
this also confirm that God will do is will and that no one can prevent it or interfere .1Co 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.this is saying that at the end of it all wen Christ give all things to his father ,that God will be all in all
the reason would be because there will be no more adversary
and all creatures will be subdued to God even Christ.i have no problem with those scriptures.
Hi all,
Can some, or all of you, summaries what you stance is on this issue.
I have read back a number of pages and cannot make head nor tail of what's going on and who is sayinb what…just a load of old Testament verses, which, although applicable, seem to confuse the main issue.
Perhaps, it's because the topic was running its course, but it just seems a bit messy. What are your positions in summary?
Here is mine:
God gave mankind life through the spirit, the spirit in each man is precious to God because it is a special gift. That spirit is taken back by God at the point of death, death is the removal if the spirit from the soul (body and mind).
Because of the sin of man/Adam, [God's support of mankind was disenfranchised and thence] the soul became subject to corruption which leads to [the eventual] death of the soul.
God demand that what he has spoken be fufilled – He is what his word is, and He made mankind to inhabit the earth. So, if mankind, under the curse of sin, is doomed to die, how can His word be fulfilled?
Well, God, in his foreknowledge, foretold and then brought into play his 'Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity Plan' through Jesus Christ, His Begotten Son.
The plan was that a perfect, sinless one of mankind, not subject to death, should be put to death and thereby atone for the sinful man, meaning that the 'original sin status' would be removed and all of mankind would now have the CHANCE TO ACQUIRE LIFE in a new sinless, uncurruptible soul…if he demonstrates a number of Godly qualities.
These Godly qualities were embodied in the Ten Commandments, but these commandments are very broadbased and hard to follow, so Moses, with the authority of God, refined them with a humanistic view and limitations.
Now, many people read in the scriptures where the Apostles and the Saints say that they are 'saved', that they will be 'Kings and Priest, Rulers with Christ' and that man is saved 'by Deeds but not only by Deeds but also by Faith' and some claim that simply by being Baptised they are saved, and further, some say that once 'saved' by and other the previously mentioned methods (and others) then they are 'permanently saved' even if they sin later on!
This is simply Satan's way of trying to corrupt the work of Jesus. Each of mankind must 'Maintain' themselves in the new, renewed Covenant, the new and fuller way of seeing the word of God without the limitation of human view point, through te Truth of God, which is the Holy Spirit, that Jesus brought to man overriding the old Mosaic view. He also revealed that the Jewish nation, previously favoured of and supported by God and meant to be the ultimate example of True God Worshipping nation, but which corrupted itself despite the overwhelming number of times God showed his love for them, punished them and forgave them, would not be the only ones of mankind who would be subject to the gift of salvation that Jesus bought with, and by His own blood (The ultimate Sacrifice: the blood of a sinless human over that if a spotless animal).
So, God's plan is being fufilled in that all of mankind who subscribe to the will of God and abide in His word through the teachings of Jesus Christ, which God, his Father gave him, will be saved to a new incorruptible life during the two-phased, great judgement.
The first phase is for thise who, indeed, will be 'kings and priest, rulers with Christ' and these are thise who have completely abided in God's word or 'Chosen from the beginning…'and maintained themselves onto death in the flesh(these are the elders and the Saints)
The second phase is a pure judgement where Christ will review the life of each of mankind as to how well they maintained themselves by the word of God and the belief in Jesus Christ himself. For this reason, the judgement cannot take place until God and Christ are taught in the whole inhabited earth as a testimony, no one can say, 'I did not know!'
Here is where the aspect of 'free will' comes into view.
All of mankind has 'free will' otherwise it makes a nonesense of all that God desires, for mankind to Worship him with a free will, because they completely recognise His total Sovereingty.
Even though God chose a few to set aside for Himself as an example to others, He also gave some up to Satan will (E.g. Judas, Saul, Jesseebel, etc) to also serve as examples of how wrongful thought and behaviour will lead to the destruction of the Spirit, which is ultimate death.Note this, though: God does not dictate who sins and who does not sin, the scripture says that 'these things will be but woe to him from whom these things come'. In other words, we all have the ability to sin and NOT to sin, we all have access to the support of the Holy Spirit of God through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit would help to strengthen, guide, encourage, support, comfort and remind us of the way and will of God through Christ. But we can choose to ignore the Holy Spirit if it comes upon us unrequested or even so if requested due to our own base, carnal or weak mind and body.
No, all men will not be saved, only those who conform to standards set by God and judged worthy by Christ.
Hi JustAskin.
Yes, all will be saved. Look at what will be at the “consummation” (the completed creation).
1Cor,15:21-28.
21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead.
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Notice God will be “All in all”, not just some, but ALL IN ALL.
Read all of 1Cor.15, It explains more of what scripture I quoted.
Blessings, Jerry.
CO / JA
And this is the word that was preached to you.
1Pe 2:1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
1Pe 2:2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
1Pe 2:3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.Mt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’MT 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
The Two Foundations
MT 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
MT 7:25 “And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
MT 7:26 “Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
MT 7:27 “The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”REV 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
REV 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
REV 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured themnow Christ give all to his father,and God is all in all,all the opposition has been destroyed.
1Tim.2:3-4.
3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.Some mistakenly believe that Gods will is only His wish, where in fact anything God wills WILL be done.
Blessings, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 16 2010,16:38) 1Tim.2:3-4.
3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.Some mistakenly believe that Gods will is only His wish, where in fact anything God wills WILL be done.
Blessings, Jerry.
CO
THE SCRIPTURE YOU ARE QUOTING AND SAY WHAT IT MEANS IS NOT MY UNDERSTANDING ,WEN YOU READ ALL OF CONTEXT;1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
1Ti 2:7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.PAUL SHOWS IN HIS DISCUTION THAT IT LOOKS LIKE GOD WANT ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND THAT FOR THAT REASON HE HAS BEEN APOINTED APOSTEL TO THE GENTILES ,BUT NOT ALL HUMAN KIND WILL BE SAVED UNLESS THEY REPENT.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2010,17:09) Blessings, Jerry.[/quote] PAUL SHOWS IN HIS DISCUTION THAT IT LOOKS LIKE GOD WANT ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND THAT FOR THAT REASON HE HAS BEEN APOINTED APOSTEL TO THE GENTILES ,BUT NOT ALL HUMAN KIND WILL BE SAVED UNLESS THEY REPENT.
terraricca.
Why do you feel we have to repent? Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient? Was His death and resurrection just to make it 'possible' to be saved?
How ungreatfull, He need not have gone though all that pain and suffering if you could just “repent” and all your sin would be gone.
Just have a look at 2Cor.5:18-21…
18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
20 For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are beseeching for Christ's sake, “Be conciliated to God!”
21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him.Notice verse in verse 19…”not reckoning their offenses to them”, See? He (God) sees our sin no more!!!
Also notice particularly verse 21, what He accomplished…
“that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him”.Again, this scripture also says “all is of God”, can you not believe this? Are you still among those who think we can “earn” our salvation by repenting?
Study the words in this scripture carefully, It means an awfull lot in understanding what God is doing.
Blessings, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 17 2010,17:13) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2010,17:09) Blessings, Jerry. PAUL SHOWS IN HIS DISCUTION THAT IT LOOKS LIKE GOD WANT ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND THAT FOR THAT REASON HE HAS BEEN APOINTED APOSTEL TO THE GENTILES ,BUT NOT ALL HUMAN KIND WILL BE SAVED UNLESS THEY REPENT.[/quote]
terraricca.
Why do you feel we have to repent? Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient? Was His death and resurrection just to make it 'possible' to be saved?
How ungreatfull, He need not have gone though all that pain and suffering if you could just “repent” and all your sin would be gone.
Just have a look at 2Cor.5:18-21…
18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
20 For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are beseeching for Christ's sake, “Be conciliated to God!”
21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him.Notice verse in verse 19…”not reckoning their offenses to them”, See? He (God) sees our sin no more!!!
Also notice particularly verse 21, what He accomplished…
“that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him”.Again, this scripture also says “all is of God”, can you not believe this? Are you still among those who think we can “earn” our salvation by repenting?
Study the words in this scripture carefully, It means an awfull lot in understanding what God is doing.
Blessings, Jerry.
COcan i deny Gods word??
Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.
Ps 1:5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
Ps 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD?
therefore he instructs sinners in his ways.
Ps 26:9 Do not take away my soul along with sinners,
my life with bloodthirsty men,
Ps 37:38 But all sinners will be destroyed;
the future of the wicked will be cut off.
Ps 51:13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
and sinners will turn back to you.
Ps 104:35 But may sinners vanish from the earth
and the wicked be no more.
Praise the LORD, O my soul.
Praise the LORD.
Pr 1:10 My son, if sinners entice you,
do not give in to them.
Pr 23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners,
but always be zealous for the fear of the LORD.Lk 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
1Ti 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.
Jerry
You said.
((( Why do you feel we have to repent? Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient? Was His death and resurrection just to make it 'possible' to be saved?
How ungreatfull, He need not have gone though all that pain and suffering if you could just “repent” and all your sin would be gone.)))Did the apostle John write these scriptures before Jesus died, or after?
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Georg
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 18 2010,13:46) I give up.
COwhy ,is it did i say something untrue???
if i did correct me please,
Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 18 2010,13:54) Jerry You said.
((( Why do you feel we have to repent? Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient? Was His death and resurrection just to make it 'possible' to be saved?
How ungreatfull, He need not have gone though all that pain and suffering if you could just “repent” and all your sin would be gone.)))Did the apostle John write these scriptures before Jesus died, or after?
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Georg
Hi George.
I have copied the Concordant explanation of 1Jn.1. This is how I see it, but better explained in this than by my words.1 The ministry of John is based upon his personal acquaintance with the Lord in the flesh. Indeed, this was the prime qualification of all the twelve apostles (Ac.1:21). They were to bear witness to the evidence of their senses, both before and after His resurrection. They saw and handled Him, and heard His words of life. Paul, the one to whom the present secret administration of God's grace was revealed (Eph.3:9), had no personal contact, and did not know Christ until after His ascension and glorification.
1 The first few verses are a condensed summary of John's account of our Lord's life. In it, as here, the Lord is presented under the figure of the divine Expression, or Word. In Paul's epistles He is set forth as the Image of God (2Co.4:4; Col.1:15). John appeals to our ears, Paul to our eyes. Job contrasts the two, when he says to God: “I heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear, yet now my eye sees Thee” (Job 42:5). As in nature sight is a much higher sensation than sound, so we have a much loftier revelation of God through Christ as His Image than as His Expression. The Expression, or Word, became flesh (Jn.1:14) in order to declare God.
3 Jesus Christ is the title of our Lord's humiliation, the time to which John refers. Christ Jesus is the title of His exaltation, which, as viewed in John's writings, is still future, but which, for us, is His present place. So that our fellowship is not with Jesus Christ but with Christ Jesus.
5 God is Spirit. God is light. God is love. The first is a fact. The last two are figures, but they reveal His heart to our hearts.
6 The Circumcision evangel demands repentance, baptism (Ac.2:38) and works (Ja.2:14), and good conduct, and conferred a probational pardon, calling for continual cleansing. They knew nothing of the justification by faith Which is ours in Christ Jesus (Ro.8:1), in which all possibility of condemnation vanishes and leads to an experience altogether above that here set forth by the apostle. We have sinned, but are justified or vindicated, without reference to our own conduct, which is based upon this favor.
8 Fellowship with God as the Light leads to the discovery of all that is of the darkness. Sin in the saint is made manifest by the light. Away from the light sin may not be detected; it may be unknown. The Circumcision have constant recourse to the pardoning and cleansing virtues of the blood. Under the present reign of grace sin is always submerged by God's favor, so that no pardon is required or possible. Some will say that this puts a premium on sin. This is the very objection which is discussed and refuted in the sixth chapter of the epistle to the Romans. But it works out the very opposite in practice. Man is a contradiction. When the law says “Thou shalt not” it awakens in him a desire to do the very thing that God prohibits. And it is a blessed fact that, when the sluice gates of grace are opened wide so that there is no condemnation no matter what he does, he loses the desire to sin and finds in the very grace which guarantees immunity a latent power which enables him to rise above it.
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 19 2010,16:46) Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 18 2010,13:54) Jerry You said.
((( Why do you feel we have to repent? Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient? Was His death and resurrection just to make it 'possible' to be saved?
How ungreatfull, He need not have gone though all that pain and suffering if you could just “repent” and all your sin would be gone.)))Did the apostle John write these scriptures before Jesus died, or after?
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Georg
Hi George.
I have copied the Concordant explanation of 1Jn.1. This is how I see it, but better explained in this than by my words.1 The ministry of John is based upon his personal acquaintance with the Lord in the flesh. Indeed, this was the prime qualification of all the twelve apostles (Ac.1:21). They were to bear witness to the evidence of their senses, both before and after His resurrection. They saw and handled Him, and heard His words of life. Paul, the one to whom the present secret administration of God's grace was revealed (Eph.3:9), had no personal contact, and did not know Christ until after His ascension and glorification.
1 The first few verses are a condensed summary of John's account of our Lord's life. In it, as here, the Lord is presented under the figure of the divine Expression, or Word. In Paul's epistles He is set forth as the Image of God (2Co.4:4; Col.1:15). John appeals to our ears, Paul to our eyes. Job contrasts the two, when he says to God: “I heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear, yet now my eye sees Thee” (Job 42:5). As in nature sight is a much higher sensation than sound, so we have a much loftier revelation of God through Christ as His Image than as His Expression. The Expression, or Word, became flesh (Jn.1:14) in order to declare God.
3 Jesus Christ is the title of our Lord's humiliation, the time to which John refers. Christ Jesus is the title of His exaltation, which, as viewed in John's writings, is still future, but which, for us, is His present place. So that our fellowship is not with Jesus Christ but with Christ Jesus.
5 God is Spirit. God is light. God is love. The first is a fact. The last two are figures, but they reveal His heart to our hearts.
6 The Circumcision evangel demands repentance, baptism (Ac.2:38) and works (Ja.2:14), and good conduct, and conferred a probational pardon, calling for continual cleansing. They knew nothing of the justification by faith Which is ours in Christ Jesus (Ro.8:1), in which all possibility of condemnation vanishes and leads to an experience altogether above that here set forth by the apostle. We have sinned, but are justified or vindicated, without reference to our own conduct, which is based upon this favor.
8 Fellowship with God as the Light leads to the discovery of all that is of the darkness. Sin in the saint is made manifest by the light. Away from the light sin may not be detected; it may be unknown. The Circumcision have constant recourse to the pardoning and cleansing virtues of the blood. Under the present reign of grace sin is always submerged by God's favor, so that no pardon is required or possible. Some will say that this puts a premium on sin. This is the very objection which is discussed and refuted in the sixth chapter of the epistle to the Romans. But it works out the very opposite in practice. Man is a contradiction. When the law says “Thou shalt not” it awakens in him a desire to do the very thing that God prohibits. And it is a blessed fact that, when the sluice gates of grace are opened wide so that there is no condemnation no matter what he does, he loses the desire to sin and finds in the very grace which guarantees immunity a latent power which enables him to rise above it.
God Bless, Jerry.
So what are you saying?Georg
Georg.
I am saying, to make it brief, is that the scripture you quoted in 1John, was referring to Israel, while under the 'law', not applicable to us now, under the “Grace of God”. The explanation I gave you was a detailed version of this.Blessings, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Mar. 23 2010,17:08) Georg.
I am saying, to make it brief, is that the scripture you quoted in 1John, was referring to Israel, while under the 'law', not applicable to us now, under the “Grace of God”. The explanation I gave you was a detailed version of this.Blessings, Jerry.
COwhat
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete.
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