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WJ,
And 'God Almighty' is a qualifier for [YHVH] God alone who shares his glory as God with none other!
God does not lie:
Jesus sat down on the throne of His Father, YHVH God.
God shares His throne with no other God.
Jesus is not God.
God does not lie.Quote (JustAskin @ April 10 2010,17:16) God does not lie:
Jesus sat down on the throne of His Father, YHVH God.
God shares His throne with no other God.
Jesus is not God.
God does not lie.
JAWell if Jesus is not God then your view of God is worse than I thought, because that would mean that God shares his throne wiith a mere man!
How sad!
Jesus was the Word that was with God and was God and still is God! John 1:1, Titus 2:13, Isa 9:6, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1:4, 5, Rev 1:8 I could go on but I won't!
WJ
WJ
WJ,
God does not lie. He said 'Beside me there is no GOD'Who are you to judge who God has sitting on His throne?
God's 'Throne' is not a physical glorified 'Chair' being carried around in Heaven by mighty, winged, creatures!
It is a figurative for 'Ultimate Position of Authority'. And, so, Yes, Jesus shares in the 'Ultimate Authority' with His Father.
Is it not written in the Scriptures: 'All authority has been put under him, excepting the one who put all authority under him.'?
WJ,
Why don't you save time and debate this in the debate forum with me.
You lay claim to not being able to answer posts because too there are too many posts to answer. Wel, spirit of common sense would say 'WJ, don't engage in so many topics, then. Learn to not feel slighted by anti-trinitarian rants. In fact, you yourself are fueling the very problem you complain about!'
What was it you said 'I wish people didn't post stuff against me…' sommat like that.. You would wish!?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2010,03:47) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 09 2010,22:04) Quote I was actually hoping for some trinitarians to pipe in with their explanation, but it seems I've only strengthened Kathi's belief in two God's. Bummer. 
peace and love to you all,
mike
Mike. Pay attention.In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14, NASB)
cf.
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. (John 14:16-17, NASB)
“Sealed”…
“In you”….
“Forever”…..Endure sound teaching.
Hi Paul,As usual, you didn't answer the point in question. Why doesn't the Holy Spirit, as a co-equal member of the godhead, have a throne of his own?
I did answer your question – with scripture. I guess I was hoping you might apply a basic level of critical thinking and make the inference yourself but I have expected too much of you it seems. I'll explain it to you. We are sealed “in Christ” by the Holy Spirit who indwells (“will be in you”) us, the body of Christ. This is an intractable, irrevokable and perpetual union (“be with you forever“). The Holy Spirit does not have a throne in Revelation because He is now and forever indwelling the body of Christ.Quote And the Scriptures you quote just further prove that God's Spirit is not a co-equal part of God, but a helper that the only true God sends at His will. “Given as a pledge”, “give you another helper”.
Does John 14:16-17 mention, or allude to, an ontological disparity between the Father, Son or Holy Spirit? How so?Quote As far as being a polytheist, haven't you been reading that it is the trinitarians, who reject the “plurality of majesty” reasoning, who are the ones who believe in “gods”, not “God”?
There are two types of gods, true and false ones. YHWH is the only true God. Thethinker has already pointed out to you the “plurality of magesty” has no scriptural basis. It's just a theory that's purported by those who have a problem reconciling them.Quote Bury your head in the sand if you want, but the Bible mentions many gods. We are told to worship and serve only one of them – the only TRUE God as Jesus calls him.
Answer this question for me. Is there more than one being with a divine nature?Quote The one who is called the God of gods in Deut, Psalms and Daniel.
Including Psalms 102:25?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 11 2010,03:29) Mike The bigger question is why Jesus is able to sit in YWHHs throne and sharing the Glory of God?
WJ
You say that because you want to point everything to Jesus is God Almighty. But the truth is in the same verse.Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.So Jesus sits with the Father on his throne and we can sit with Jesus on his throne. It is obvious that we are not Jesus and Jesus is not the Father.
I think it is about authority. God share his authority with Jesus and Jesus shares his authority with us. A throne is a seat of rule an power.
No hidden or inferred Trinity here, just how rule and authority is given.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 11 2010,11:22) Quote (JustAskin @ April 10 2010,17:16) God does not lie:
Jesus sat down on the throne of His Father, YHVH God.
God shares His throne with no other God.
Jesus is not God.
God does not lie.
JAWell if Jesus is not God then your view of God is worse than I thought, because that would mean that God shares his throne wiith a mere man!
How sad!
Jesus was the Word that was with God and was God and still is God! John 1:1, Titus 2:13, Isa 9:6, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1:4, 5, Rev 1:8 I could go on but I won't!
WJ
WJ
WJyou have a problem and it is your believe in paganism who prevent you to see God the way he really he is,
no one is able to help you because you want to believe in a lie
and God can not lie so you will never meet whit him.sad.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 11 2010,07:47) Mike Good point, so why is Jesus the only one sitting in the throne with the Father and all crowns being thrown down at his feet?
Find me an OT example where a King shared his throne with another? Why was that Mike?
WJ
Hi WJ,Because Jesus is the one who is higher than us, yet still lower than God. For the same reasons dogs will not be allowed to sit on Jesus' throne, but we will. Because we are the ones who are higher than dogs, lower than Jesus, and too low to sit on God's throne. Your turn. Why can we sit on Jesus' throne, but not God's? If the majesty is equal, why wouldn't we be allowed to sit on either, or neither?
And there are actually OT sons of kings who started ruling in their father's throne while the father was still king. You can see this by the years given in some instances. I will research it if you need me to. The same is said of King Belshazzar in the book of Daniel. Historians tried to discredit the book because no Belshazzar was found in history. Now there is evidence that he was a brother of (?, I can't remember) and co-ruled with (?), thus sharing the throne. If you really need me to, I could research that also.
peace and love,
mikeHi Paul,
You said:
Quote The Holy Spirit does not have a throne in Revelation because He is now and forever indwelling the body of Christ. Bummer for god #3. God #1 and god #2 get thrones, but god #3 gets stuck living inside of god #2 with no throne.
You said:
Quote Does John 14:16-17 mention, or allude to, an ontological disparity between the Father, Son or Holy Spirit? How so? Uh….yeah! First one equal god ASKS another equal god to SEND the third equal god. Jesus had asked while on earth, is the one sent as great as the one who sends?
You said:
Quote There are two types of gods, true and false ones. YHWH is the only true God. Thethinker has already pointed out to you the “plurality of magesty” has no scriptural basis. It's just a theory that's purported by those who have a problem reconciling them. The word “eloyhim” means “gods”, not “persons in a godhead”. Do you worship “gods”, Paul?
You said:
Quote Answer this question for me. Is there more than one being with a divine nature?
Yes. See how easy it is to actually answer someone's question?You said:
Quote Including Psalms 102:25? The Hebrew has no mention of God in it. So I assume you refer to the Septuagint. And the answer is yes. See? Easy.
Try it sometime.peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,16:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
To sit on his Fathers throne is a figure of speach just as sitting on his right hand is. It is to show that Jesus was highly excalted, he holds the highest position next to the Father.
When Jesus begins to reign on earth, then he will sit on his throne, and all of those that will be kings, will sit on their thrones.Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ April 13 2010,14:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,16:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
To sit on his Fathers throne is a figure of speach just as sitting on his right hand is. It is to show that Jesus was highly excalted, he holds the highest position next to the Father.
When Jesus begins to reign on earth, then he will sit on his throne, and all of those that will be kings, will sit on their thrones.Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Georg
hi georgi believe that it means that God will share his power with Christ and Christ will share his power with the ones who overcome.
we know that God has put all things in Christ hands ,and also know that the 144000 will reign with him,
so this is only a other way to certify that action.
Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2010,17:55) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 13 2010,14:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,16:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
To sit on his Fathers throne is a figure of speach just as sitting on his right hand is. It is to show that Jesus was highly excalted, he holds the highest position next to the Father.
When Jesus begins to reign on earth, then he will sit on his throne, and all of those that will be kings, will sit on their thrones.Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Georg
hi georgi believe that it means that God will share his power with Christ and Christ will share his power with the ones who overcome.
we know that God has put all things in Christ hands ,and also know that the 144000 will reign with him,
so this is only a other way to certify that action.
God does not share his power or his glory with any one, Is. 42:8.
Jesus is put in charge to remove all sin, and evil from this world, 1 Cor. 15:26; after he will have accomplished that he will turn the kingdom back over to the Father, 1 Cor. 15:28.
You are correct, the 144000 will reign with him, you could say, they are being trained for future positions.
Jesus will be King of kings, and the Father will rule over all.Georg
georg
sharing power means to give powers to someone to accomplish there task,God as given many people power so he share his power,but he never as given his glory or as shared it,
Quote (terraricca @ April 20 2010,15:50) georg sharing power means to give powers to someone to accomplish there task,God as given many people power so he share his power,but he never as given his glory or as shared it,
I buy that.Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,15:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
God has His throne. Jesus is the successor to David, to whom God promised that there would always be a man to sit in the throne of David. Jesus Christ is that man to forever sit in the throne of David.Quote (barley @ July 18 2010,08:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,15:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
God has His throne. Jesus is the successor to David, to whom God promised that there would always be a man to sit in the throne of David. Jesus Christ is that man to forever sit in the throne of David.
Hi Barley,Where is the trinitaian's god #3 sitting? Where is the throne for the holy spirit? That was the point of this whole post.
I was setting bait for the trinni's, but they didn't bite.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2010,11:48) Quote (barley @ July 18 2010,08:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,15:58) Hi All, Maybe someone can shed some insight on something I've been wondering.
In Rev, Jesus says he's been granted to sit on the Father's throne with Him, and we will be granted to sit on his with him.
Quote Revelation 3:21 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.This confuses me from the trinitarians point of view. If the Godhead is only one entity, consisting of three separate persons, why the need of two different thrones?
On the other hand, if each person in the Godhead deserves his own throne, where's the third throne for the Holy Spirit?
peace and love,
mike
God has His throne. Jesus is the successor to David, to whom God promised that there would always be a man to sit in the throne of David. Jesus Christ is that man to forever sit in the throne of David.
Hi Barley,Where is the trinitaian's god #3 sitting? Where is the throne for the holy spirit? That was the point of this whole post.
I was setting bait for the trinni's, but they didn't bite.
mike
If you want to put them in a real tizzy, let them know that the word “seat” in Revelation 2:13; 4:4; 11:16 and 13:2 is the Greek word thronos. Elsewhere translated throne.Why is it that when the 24 elders are mentioned in 4:4 and 11:16, thronos is translated “seat?”
2:13 refers to Satan's throne and 13:2 to a throne for an evil beast. Both were translated seat in the KJV
See also Matthew 19:28. There are 12 thrones in this verse for the 12 who will judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
I'd be happy if they just told me where their #3 god was supposed to sit. You know, their #3 god who wasn't even added to their “trinity” until 55 years AFTER the Nicene Creed.
Yet, supposedly scripture makes it abundantly clear that the holy spirit has always been God.
Why did they leave him out for 55 years?
And why doesn't he get a throne of his own?!?
I'm feeling bad for god #3 right now.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2010,14:27) I'd be happy if they just told me where their #3 god was supposed to sit. You know, their #3 god who wasn't even added to their “trinity” until 55 years AFTER the Nicene Creed.
Yet, supposedly scripture makes it abundantly clear that the holy spirit has always been God.
Why did they leave him out for 55 years?
And why doesn't he get a throne of his own?!?
I'm feeling bad for god #3 right now.
mike
Well said, you made some very good points!Thanks.
Truth is simple. At times getting to the truth is not easy, the erroneous doctrines get in the way and obscure it.
There is such a simplicity in realizing that trinitarian doctrine is unscriptural.
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