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Hi Ed J,
This is getting a bit pathetic as you are completely ignoring my questions and not at all countering my points but ignoring those as well.
Please acknowledge and explain Ed J.
Furthermore, you are not apply the context of verses 1-15 to that of 16, nor are you applying the context of verse 17 to that of 16. If you did, then you would see that the context of verse 16 would be properly read as such,
“And Jacob begat Joseph (the husband of Mary) of whom begat Jesus “.Hi Jodi, you reference this verse, but you misquote it to fit your narrative.
1) First The word “begat” is not used in verse 16, the word “Born” is instead used here.
2) Secondly, it says: “Mary, of whom was born Jesus”
3) Thirdly you add a parentheses to dis-join Mary (Jesus true Lineage) from Jesus legal linage of Joseph – shame on you!
4) And fourthly it does NOT say Jesus was “Born” of Joseph – even though that is what YOU WANT it to say, IT DOESN’T!
“And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.” (Matt 1:16)
As T8 always tells you: “back to drawing board”!
Hi Ed J,
Please acknowledge and explain Ed J.
Furthermore, you are not apply the context of verses 1-15 to that of
16, “And Jacob begat Joseph (the husband of Mary) of whom begat Jesus “.Ed J, punctuation can change how verse 16 is read, it’s as simple as that.
Yes, and so can adding in a parenthesis
(1)Is your position that Matthew was giving us a lineage to show David had a legal right to David’s throne or not?
(2)If yes, why did Matthew bother at all to go through Abraham’s lineage listing specific sons up to David, and also include him as to all the generations leading up to Christ?
(3)True or False,
The virgin Mary, in order to become pregnant would have had to have been found “with child from the Holy Spirit.”
1) Legal linage is always given through the male. However, Luke also gives us the male linage,
but he instead starts with Mary’s father, Jesus biological linage. Joseph was not Jesus biological father!2) Because Matthew was trying to show that Jesus was the legal heir to David’s throne. But Luke shows us that
Jesus is the heir to a Heavenly throne, not by law, but by promise, something you appear to miss. (see Gal 3:17-18)3) Yes, that is what Scripture says – meaning Joseph is not Jesus biological father. (see Matthew 1:18)
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it
should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law,
it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.” (Gal 3:17-18)Hi Ed J,
Gene said: If God took the DNA from JOSEPH and enplanted it in Mary’s womb , or just made up the DNA from the linage of King DAVID, it makes no difference, “all thing”, are possible with God, but it still does not change what I quoted, from scriptures.
Gene also said:
Edj…..produce where I or Jodi ever said jophes Fathered Jesus, (Post #864957 The Ordinary Jesus brigade)But since Gene doesn’t have a “FreeWill”, and his will is held captive by you, he is naturally not at all
responsible for what he says or does – as you having the greater influence on his “will” than does truthSee just how silly you two are?
____________
God bless
Ed JEdj…..Repeat I nor Jodi, ever said that Joseph ever “fathered” Jesus, that is you lying again, about what we have said, to try to make yourself look right. I went back and reread that post and not so much as a single word saying that it was Joseph who “Fathered” Jesus, by me or Jodi.
If such a thing as a “freewill” did exist you’d be a perfect candidate that’s for sure , bouncing off the walls, not able to put scriptures we directly quote to you together with the other scriptures in our bibles. But because there exist no such a thing as a will that is free “itself” , I must assume it is simply a matter of you lack of the knowledge of the truth driving your carnel, “captivated will” , thats blocking the truth from you.
But please Edj., try to stop “lying” about things we say ok. Jodi and I both know full well Joseph, did not Father Jesus. God the Father did, and he didn’t do it by “morphing” a “preexisting” living being of somekind into the Womb of Mary, as you and others falsely preach either. Trying desperately to make Jesus appear different then the rest of his brothers and sisters. your doing a good Job for Satan, teaching his “doctrines of Seperation”, we will see what the end of that will be, when Jesus returns, 2ths2. Perty much explains it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Edj…..Repeat I nor Jodi, ever said that Joseph ever “fathered” Jesus, that is you lying again,
about what we have said, to try to make yourself look right. I went back and reread that post and
not so much as a single word saying that it was Joseph who “Fathered” Jesus, by me or Jodi.Here Ed J you are directly being told that “Jesus is in fact the son of Joseph” (Post 846075)
We are being told that “Joseph, the husband of Mary, begat Jesus” (Post #864881)
“Ed J, Matthew in no way is teaching us of an adoption, he directly gives us that Jesus is of the genes/
“fathered by Joseph” (Post #864879)Hi Ed J,
In Matthew we are given the lineage of Joseph through Joseph’s father.
In Luke we are given the lineage of Joseph through Joseph’s mother’s father,
as it is custom apparently by many examples in the OT that a son’s mother’s father is declared. (Post #846085)Hi Jodi,
1) We agree that the lineage in Matthew is Joseph’s linage
2 However in Luke the lineage is clearly the linage of Mary’s father,
which goes back to David through Nathan, not Solomon like Matthew.3) Mary’s linage doesn’t count for anything to you?
4) I say the lineage in Luke is that of Mary, through Mary’s fathers line.
Can you or Gene agree to that? You better answer first because Gene can’t as he doesn’t have a “FreeWill”
Poor Gene. He keeps telling us he is basically a robot with no free will.
Is it possible that among free thinking people that there exist NPCs.
Hi Ed J and Gene,
My understanding from Matthew is that God through the power of His Holy Spirit conceived in Mary a child that was of the genes of Joseph, for Matthew tells us that he is giving us the book of the genealogy of Jesus and then he directly thereafter gives us the book of the genealogy of Joseph starting from Abraham.
Proclaimer……And you keep telling us , it’s no God that works in you “both to will” and do of “his” good purpose, but you through your own “good” will that is “free” , that does it all. Interesting scripture says one thing you another. Scripture say there is none that is rightious,
Rom 3:10-12…..As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one: 11, There is none that understand, there is none that seek after God. 12, They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
So tell us again how a “freewill” soul like yourself can chose by your so-called “freewill” to do anything good. Jesus would not even let anyone call him Good, but Said this, there is “only” one that is good, and that is God.
It will be interesting to see how your “own” good , “freewill” choices saves you.
I think you would be better off putting your own so-called “freewill” choices to death, and be turned by God the Father to Jesus, but even that is only achieved by God “drawing” you to him, according to Jesus. I can get that scripture for you also if you like.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
It will be interesting to see how your “own” good , “freewill” choices saves you.
Keep up Gene, you are falling behind again.
I can freely choose to serve God or serve my flesh.
I am free to choose because the flesh wants to be satisfied but God pours out his Spirit that leads us away from temptation.
If there was no provocation, reward, or leading, then perhaps we wouldn’t bother choosing.
We are free to choose everyday whom we serve.
We are free to choose to serve God or the flesh.
You are free to believe that you have free will.
If you don’t have free will, then you are a robot.
If you want to convince me that you are a robot, then fine. I will keep an open mind about that.
Hi Jodi,
I say the lineage in Luke is that of Mary, through Mary’s fathers line.
Can you
or Geneagree to that?It doesn’t do any good for me to talk to Gene as he doesn’t answer my questions
Proclaimer. ….I see again you failed to read the scriptures I quoted for you, but just pushed them aside again as if they weren’t even in your bible. OK then read you last post and see your error, you say God pours out his spirit, and you, by your own so-called “freewill,” chose to follow him. But I presented scriptures that says “no” man does that, which you reject. You maintain you are “free willing” your own salvation, if that be the case why would Jesus have to even die for our sins, if we could do it ourselves by our “freewill” choices?
Eph 2:8…..”for by “grace” are you saved through Faith; “and that not of yourselves” : (9) it is a gift of God: not of works , lest any should boast.
(10) For we are “his” workmanship, “created” in Christ Jesus “unto” good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
Tell us Proclaimer do you see any thing in those scriptures that show anyone doing “good works”, by their own “so-called ” freewill choices?
So again I maintain,
Phil 2:13….For it is God which which works in you, “both” to WILL, and do of “His” good pleasure.
Our Will”s has nothing to do with it, because we are being “created” by God unto good works though Jesus. But you maintain it is by your own so-called “freewill” through. Your free choice creating yourself unto “good work”. it appears you are a God unto yourself, keeping your own power to chose what is Good or evil, not acknowledging that God the Father is doing the work causing you to “BOTH WILL” and do of “HIS” good pleasure.
Our salvation is not a matter of choice, it is a matter of Faith, and that Faith is “given by God”. Which draws us unto Jesus. Our salvation from start to finish has nothing to do with own so-called “freewill” choices, but God the Fathers choice working in us, causing us to do “his” will. , not our will, but “His” Will.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Proclaimer, do you even realize this “you are saved by GRACE? and that NOT OF “YOURSELVES “. ?
IT is God that changes us by the RENEW ING OF OUR MINDS, which “CAUSES” us to do “HIS WILL”. so it is a matter of “cause and effect”. Nothing to do with a FREE RADICAL, like a “freewill” which could change any time, a mind that can never be stable flip flop in through out all eternity, if that were the case then God could never predict anything, because it would alway be subject to change, according to you “freewill'” theology. There exist no such thing as a will that is free, the term “freewill” is a OXYMORON. There would be no such thing as a Will if it were free, the very word Will, implies “cause” therefore it can not be free “itself” .
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Ed J,
I believe that it is logical that Luke is giving us Mary’s lineage from her father.
I don’t know why however he didn’t specifically state that as we can read in the OT examples of a mother’s name being given and then who her father is, a few examples, “Moses, and his mother’s name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri”, “his mother’s name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom”, “Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur”, “his mother’s name was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah of Boscath” “his mother’s name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah”
Luke also makes it clear to us that Joseph is of the house of David as Matthew does.
1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
Luke also tells us that Jesus IS the son of Joseph, just as people thought that he was.
Also, Luke establishes that Jesus is indeed a son of Adam.
Hi Jodi,
I say the lineage in Luke is that of Mary, through Mary’s fathers line.Can you or Gene agree to that?
Hi Ed J,
I believe that it is logical that Luke is giving us Mary’s lineage from her father.
Ok, great we agree on that!
Then we both agree that Jesus is of the DNA of his Mother, and that she
is of the linage of David, which fulfills Jesus is of the linage of David.Can you agree to that as well?
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
No I do not agree, inheritance comes through your father, and what needed to be fulfilled was that God would bring forth a HUMAN.
Our Messiah in Psalms 8 and elsewhere is identified as a mortal human who God is mindful of and visits. Not only was it a human that was to come, but Jesus is called a human or a son of a human about 100 times, and he is still referred to as a human.
You contradict yourself by saying that Jesus is a human, but then you make him out to be not an actual human but some one of a kind being. You can’t have it both ways, he is either a human being or he is a one of a kind being.
In order for Jesus to be conceived as a human he needed chromosomes from a male human and a female human. You cannot be made into a human with just the chromosomes from a mother, and interesting enough it is the male chromosomes that determine the sex of the child.
Recall, the PURPOSE of the virgin birth, it wasn’t for God to make a one of a kind being, it was for a sign unto the house of David concerning His promise in regards to the heir of David’s throne. For God to fulfill His promise He had to conceive in Mary a HUMAN of David’s dna, which He needed male human DNA to do so, a VERY EASY TASK for our Almighty God.
The promise was made of a human of the seed of David to be heir to the throne, however according to another promise the heir had to be of the seed of Solomon as well.
1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. 10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.
Matthew gives us the book of the genealogy of Jesus connecting him as the human promised to come that would be of the seed of Solomon, David and Abraham.
Jodi, you are back to your straw-man argument again.
because no-one is saying Jesus was not a human.
T8 laughs at you every-time that you do this!Hi Jodi,
I say the lineage in Luke is that of Mary, through Mary’s fathers line.Can you or Gene agree to that?
Hi Ed J,
I believe that it is logical that Luke is giving us Mary’s lineage from her father.
Ok, great we agree on that!
Then we both agree that Jesus is of the DNA of his Mother, and that she
is of the linage of David, which fulfills Jesus is of the linage of David.Can you agree to that as well?
Hi Ed J,
No I do not agree
Hi Jodi, ok, let’s break it down then, and lets see what part you don’t agree with:
1 Jesus is of the DNA of his Mother (<– agree or disagree)
2 Mary is of the linage of David (<– agree or disagree)
3 Since Mary is of the lineage of David, then by proxy Jesus too is of the lineage of David. (<– agree or disagree)
____________
God bless
Ed JEd J,
The problem is that you guys claim he is a man (human) but yet you say that he is MORE than a human, well that’s not actually a human then, you guys are delusional.
The Spirit of Christ combining with Mary’s DNA does not create a human being, it creates a one of a kind being.
Like I said you totally contradict yourself.
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