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Ed J, there is NO God impregnating David’s virgin daughter with an already existing son of God combining that son with Mary’s genes to make a son of David.
Then you don’t follow what the bible says closely enough then…
This is an account of God impregnating a virgin espoused to Joseph:“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.” (Matt 1:18)Even your own posted Scripture speaks out against you (Post #864852)
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world
____________
God bless
Ed JGene, you either believe the scripture or you don’t. We believe this and you do not. You are a skeptic.
Proclaimer……Please show me and others where I or Jodi do not believe scriptures, fact is, it is you people who do not understand scriptures, nor what Jesus himself clearly said. We quote scriptures and what Jesus clearly said over and over and over here. While I am a skeptic of how you and others here enturppet what scriptures “clearly” say, as well as what Jesus said also, I nor Jodi are in no way atheists or skeptical of what is clearly written in our bible text. Taking pop shots at us , while not dealing with what we post only shows how ignorant of the “truth” you really are. IMO
Why not just deal with what we have posted instead of making false accusations? Bad form Proclaimer, or T8.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Edj…..you missed what Jodi said, she said “there was no God impregnation David’s vergin daughter Mary with an, “already existing” son of God, combining that son with Mary’s genes to make a son of David.”
Her point was about a “preexisting” being being impregnated into the womb of Mary. She was not saying God did not “impregnate” Mary, her whole point was about a impregnation with a “preexisting” being.
This is what causes a lot of confusion here, it’s when people do not read the post right and respond to them incorrectly.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Ed J,
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
OF -EK out of, from, by, away from
The virgin Mary was found pregnant with a HUMAN child by the direct hand of God, by the Holy Spirit of God.
Elizabeth was also found pregnant by the hand of God, by the Holy Spirit of God, for she had been barren and of old age.
Elizabeth’s child in her womb was said to be of the Holy Spirit, “and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb,” and Mary also in her womb was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Ed J, Matthew 1:18 does not give you proof at all that Jesus pre-existed and came down from heaven having emptied his glory to become a one of a kind being having been combined with Mary’s genes. Verse 18 most certainly does not erase the scriptures just prior that tells us directly that Jesus is the son of David by being of the genes of Joseph. Jesus is said numerous times to BE a HUMAN, not a one of a kind being that you make him out to be.
Below is of prophecy of Chronicles 17, where FIRST you have a son of David and THEN God becomes a Father unto him, promising him an eternal throne.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
The child born IS A SON OF DAVID who would be great and would be called the Son of the Highest.
Jesus becomes great when he is begotten of God’s Spirit without measure and is sent out where people behold his glory, the glory of one filled with grace and truth, speaking God’s word through the Spirit that had descended upon him. At the moment that he was filled with the Spirit, to which made him GREAT, God declared this man to be His beloved Son.
Jodi,
You saying Jesus had to come from Joseph because that is the way I understand it is not good enough.
There are too many Scripture verses that go against what you are saying. I know your not listening,
but I will yet endeavor to give you yet one more verse which says Joseph CANNOT be Jesus father:“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
it (the seed of the woman – Mary) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (Gen 3:15)Putting nails into the heels of Jesus feet, when he was Crucified bruise his heels.
1 Thy seed = the fallen state of Adam – Joseph cannot be Jesus father.
2 The seed of the woman – Jesus was exclusively from Mary’s DNA.____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
YOU: You saying Jesus had to come from Joseph because that is the way I understand it is not good enough.
ME:
Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob… and Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon…..and Jacob begat Joseph.
It’s not the “way I understand it” Ed J, it is DIRECT CLEAR SCRIPTURE, Jesus is a son of David and Abraham through being of the GENES of Joseph.
Look at the context of what is said next,
17 So all the generations (fathered, begotten, of the same stock) from Abraham to David are fourteen generations ; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they SHALL call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Ed J, Matthew in no way is teaching us of an adoption, he directly gives us that Jesus is of the genes/fathered by Joseph and Mary is found with his child by the Holy Spirit. He shall save HIS PEOPLE you are told to fulfill prophecy of Isaiah 7, “Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.…Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Ed J, he SHALL save his people, and they SHALL call his name Immanuel, READ THE BELOW PASSAGES,
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, AFTER the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Ed J, Jesus was ANOINTED and SENT TO deliver captives, to set his people free, be a savior, God was with him to fulfill His promises unto Israel, which meant that God was with them as He said He would be. The virgin birth was used as a sign to identify the son of David who WOULD BECOME this savior.
READ,
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Go back to Matthew 1, Matthew establishes that Jesus is of the seed of David through Joseph, he establishes that this child shall save his people, and his birth is the fulfilled sign that was given to the house of David concerning their promised son, to whom God would be with so this son of David could be their savior and king. In Isaiah God says He GIVES the sign, He gives the sign fulfilling it through the power of His Holy Spirit.
and how is God WITH the anointed son of David?? He is with him as a Father just as God had promised unto David concerning his son. Through God’s Spirit begotten upon him, God can direct all his ways, holding his hand and keeping him, leading him so that he would not fail in all that God commanded him to do, including dying on the cross to save his people from their sins.
Hi Ed J,
There are NO scriptures that go against what I say.
YOU:
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
it (the seed of the woman – Mary) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (Gen 3:15)Putting nails into the heels of Jesus feet, when he was Crucified bruise his heels.
1 Thy seed = the fallen state of Adam – Joseph cannot be Jesus father.
2 The seed of the woman – Jesus was exclusively from Mary’s DNA.ME:
The woman in Genesis and her seed and the serpent and his seed is given to us in Revelation 12. The woman represents the family of Israel and from her out of the tribe of Judah a child was born who would be a savior crushing all enemies under his feet.
Numbers 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth*. 18 And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly. 19 Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Hi Ed J,
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas ….And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations (fathered, men of the same stock) from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
of whom is referencing Joseph, not Mary. We are being told that Joseph, the husband of Mary, begat Jesus.
This should be OBVIOUS to you, unless you just want to outright deny/throw out verse 1 of God’s word. Matthew begins by telling you that this is the BOOK of the genealogy of Jesus, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
We are being given that Jesus is a genetic son of Abraham by Matthew going through the lineage of Abraham up to Joseph, who is the husband of Mary.
Hi Ed J,
It’s not the “way I understand it” Ed J, it is DIRECT CLEAR SCRIPTURE
….And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ.Hi Jodi, No it is the wrong way you understand things:
Matthew breaks with the pattern that has held throughout the genealogy, Joseph did not beget Jesus,
but was simply the husband of the woman who did, implying the Virgin Birth. In the original Greek, the word
translated as whom is unambiguously feminine. The shift to the passive voice also symbolizes the Virgin Birth.[citation needed]Hi Ed J,
YOU:
Matthew breaks with the pattern that has held throughout the genealogy
ME:
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: 2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begot Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations (fathered, men of the same stock) from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.
There are few breaks in the pattern, specifically mentioning a mother.
Ed J, you continue still to disregard all together that Matthew is giving us the genetic lineage of Jesus to David and Abraham through Joseph.
The text does not equate to an adoption.
The text does not equate to being given Jesus’s lineage to David and Abraham through Mary.
This is the lineage of Joseph, to which it is directly connecting Jesus to David and Abraham as a genetic descendant through him.
The text does not equate to being given Jesus’s lineage to David and Abraham through Mary.
Hi Jodi,
It does in Luke Chapter 3
The text does not equate to being given Jesus’s lineage to David and Abraham through Mary.
Hi Jodi,
That’s right, Matthew Chapter 1 is clearly Joseph’s lineage, as he was Jesus legal father, but not his biological father.
Jesus’ real Father is listed just a few verses down… in Matthew 1:18. That is why it is important to read in context!However, the Lineage in Luke Chapter 3 *IS* Jesus’s lineage to David and Abraham through Mary.
_____________
God bless
Ed JProclaimer……Please show me and others where I or Jodi do not believe scriptures,
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.You do not believe these. When I articulate these or even quote these, you attack.
(1)Jesus was certainly a second “Adam” or man, created by God
through the loins of King David,
(2)but not from a “preexisting” past of somekind,
(3)as a God “morphed” deity into a human flesh being.Hi Gene,
1) Face it Gene: You don’t believe Jesus was created by an act of God like Adam was.
2) You said “The Spirit of Christ” followed them in the wilderness – are you now denying that?
3) I never once said: ‘Jesus was a god’ – you know bearing false witness against your neighbor is a sin.____________
God bless
Ed JProclaimer…. where does it say Jesus had a Glory “before with God as another being of somekind, that is an assumption on your part, jus certainly had that preordained Glory, even before he ever existed, but he never had it given to him untill he was resurected from the Grave’
You trying to make it as if he was once alive with that Glory before he was born on this earth and resurrected is a lie.
We are also told we have Glory and Honor and all thing are under our feet, but we do not have it now, not yet, it is a future event given to all mankind before the very foundation of this earth, just as Jesus’ was.
The second one you posted shows you lack understanding of what “before all ages” now (present tense) and for evermore (future tense) . That has nothing g to do with any preexisting being of anykind. Obvisely Jesus was not the Christ till he became it.
As far as the last scripture you posted there. JESUS NEVER CREATED ANYTHING, we have solid scriptures that say clearly that “GOD and himself “alone Created everything that exists. Both Jodi and I have quoted those scriptures over and over here, very clear scriptures, but then again what good are they seening you do not believe them, it does you or no one any good, who don’t believe what scriptures actually clearly say., now does it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Hi Ed J,
YOU:
Hi Jodi,
That’s right, Matthew Chapter 1 is clearly Joseph’s lineage, as he was Jesus legal father, but not his biological father.
Jesus’ real Father is listed just a few verses down… in Matthew 1:18. That is why it is important to read in context!However, the Lineage in Luke Chapter 3 *IS* Jesus’s lineage to David and Abraham through Mary.
ME: Ed J, glad that we agree that Matthew is clearly giving us Joseph’s lineage.
What you continue to deny however is the clear fact that Matthew directly says he is giving us Jesus’s lineage, HIS genealogy, where he then gives us Jesus’s genetic lineage to Joseph starting with Abraham. He further ends this genealogy that includes Joseph by calculating the number of generations (fathered by/men of the same stock) from Abraham to David, to David to Christ.
I hate to inform you Ed J, but a genetic lineage makes you not just a legal father but it makes you first and foremost a biological father.
Ed J, I don’t mind going over this a million times, but I would say that it would be nice for you to address Matthew’s use of the words Genesis and Genea for once.
You really believe Matthew is using those specific words to establish for us that Jesus is a LEGAL son of Abraham and David, not a genetic son?
Isn’t your position that the point of Matthew’s lineage is to show Jesus’s “legal” right to David’s throne?
So why is Abraham and his line up to David even mentioned at all??
Come now, Matthew’s point is EXACTLY what he said, he was giving us the book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ showing us through whom he was a biological son to David and Abraham by. Knowing this, one is to connect it directly with prophecy having been fulfilled, Jesus being the promised seed of Abraham whom through him all nations would be blessed, and as the promised seed of David to whom God WOULD BE a Father unto, not take His grace away from him, and give him an eternal throne.
We have Mary conceive this established biological son of David and Abraham through Joseph FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT, to fulfill another prophecy that God had made unto the house of David, the SIGN of the virgin birth.
Hi Ed J,
Jesus IS A HUMAN BEING!!
He is called a human and the son of a human over 100 times in the NT, last I counted.
To be a human you need 2 biological HUMAN parents, certain number of chromosomes from the female and certain ones from the male, and by the male the child’s sex is determined.
Jesus is NOT a one of a kind being that you make him out to be. Jesus is NOT some kind of half breed. If you are a half breed you aren’t a human, you are an entirely different type of being all together.
I am still very unclear as to what exactly you believe Jesus was when he was conceived?
YOU: Jesus’ real Father is listed just a few verses down… in Matthew 1:18. That is why it is important to read in context!
ME: 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of/from/by the Holy Ghost.
First off, how else is a virgin to get pregnant with a human child without by the Holy Ghost coming into play to cause such a conception to happen???
Second, how is Jesus’s real Father God exactly? God took an existing spirit son and combined that son with Mary to form a one of a kind being? Wouldn’t that make Jesus more like he is his own father by the power of God’s Spirit, and God is the grandfather?
Seriously I just can’t get over this nonsense, all the while as you deny flat out what Matthew tells you, then deny that Jesus was truly a human being, and you deny prophecy that first you have a son of David and THEN God becomes a Father unto him.
Hi Proclaimer,
YOU:
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.You do not believe these. When I articulate these or even quote these, you attack
ME:
When we explain their meaning and give other scriptures to apply to them to further our position to their proper understanding, means that we clearly believe them Proclaimer.
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