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Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding. What do you think, should Christians do this?
Bod, one thing iv learnt over just the last few days (from other sites forums) is this..there are some not many but there are ones who truely speak 'in the Spirit' iv learnt how to tell them. People can quote any verse they want without the Spirit…so from now on I will only be using verses which come to mind rather than search quote words verses chapter books.
You say above all you say but what does it prove? Your ignoring the facts….Our Father, Heavenly Father, the Son
What is the darkness ..you didnt answer.
Quote (karmarie @ May 21 2010,10:40) Bod, one thing iv learnt over just the last few days (from other sites forums) is this..there are some not many but there are ones who truely speak 'in the Spirit' iv learnt how to tell them. People can quote any verse they want without the Spirit…so from now on I will only be using verses which come to mind rather than search quote words verses chapter books. You say above all you say but what does it prove? Your ignoring the facts….Our Father, Heavenly Father, the Son
What is the darkness ..you didnt answer.
The darkness is not knowing God“The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”John 1:5
“For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.”Epesians 5:8
“The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.” Romans 12:12
What is this Light? John 1:1..
What is God?…God is love so the Light must be love.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
“At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.” 1 John 2:8-11
So the darkness is hate the light is love?
God is Love
To be one with God we must be perfected in love ourselves.
If you believe (example) you will go to heaven while others are eternally tormented in hell is not being perfected in love
We are told to love the Lord our God, and our neighbour as ourselves
God is eternal, love eternal, it cant stop at this life.
1 John 4;7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
We love because he first loved us.If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.Quote (karmarie @ May 21 2010,19:19) God is Love To be one with God we must be perfected in love ourselves.
If you believe (example) you will go to heaven while others are eternally tormented in hell is not being perfected in love
We are told to love the Lord our God, and our neighbour as ourselves
God is eternal, love eternal, it cant stop at this life.
1 John 4;7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
We love because he first loved us.If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Then why do you keep insisting who is or isn't going to hell.You don't show love calling people false prophets without any evidence of such so that is an act of hatred and agression, you fault people for loving God with ALL their heart soul and Mind.
You get upset because I put the Creator(God) above HIS own creation(Jesus)
Until you fix these views you are not filled with love at all, you will remain simply a noisy cymbal
Hi.
Quote You don't show love calling people false prophets without any evidence of such so that is an act of hatred and agression No Bod, you dont understand the word of God has spoken the truth is within the Gospels someone comes along and changes that calls the most important thing within them a lie calls Christian beliefs a laugh then tells within other writtings those who follow that religion to force those believers to follow Islam or kill them that is whats not right . You talk of love but only love those who seem to be agreeing with you..Jesus said come to him for peace come to him for love forgivness, for a way to God but Islam has misled millions billions taken them from that path how? By denying the way denying the path, to keep quiet is not right is it? For you especially who knew the Gospel. Then to try and mislead others to go down that path.
Sound angry lately? You bet! especially when iv seen the pictures of Christians who were shivering in fear standing in front of Islamists who chopped off their heads and left their bodies on the side of the road for all to see the next day as a warning not to follow Christ.
Quote Then why do you keep insisting who is or isn't going to hell. God is love Hell is not what you or the Quran says hell is…thats exactly what im talking about, the descriptions of Hell in the Quran are just pure evil…God is love and for you to believe in things like that, well if its true and the Quran is right I will wait for a God of love and compassion to rescue me and all those souls in it because for us to have love we must of got it from somewhere?
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Bod,
God's name is 'I AM'(, or 'I Will Be') in every language on Earth and in Heaven.In Hebrew it is 'YHVH', in English it is 'I Am', in French it is 'Je Suis', etc…
Quote (karmarie @ May 22 2010,09:19) Hi. Quote You don't show love calling people false prophets without any evidence of such so that is an act of hatred and agression No Bod, you dont understand the word of God has spoken the truth is within the Gospels someone comes along and changes that calls the most important thing within them a lie calls Christian beliefs a laugh then tells within other writtings those who follow that religion to force those believers to follow Islam or kill them that is whats not right . You talk of love but only love those who seem to be agreeing with you..Jesus said come to him for peace come to him for love forgivness, for a way to God but Islam has misled millions billions taken them from that path how? By denying the way denying the path, to keep quiet is not right is it? For you especially who knew the Gospel. Then to try and mislead others to go down that path.
Sound angry lately? You bet! especially when iv seen the pictures of Christians who were shivering in fear standing in front of Islamists who chopped off their heads and left their bodies on the side of the road for all to see the next day as a warning not to follow Christ.
Quote Then why do you keep insisting who is or isn't going to hell. God is love Hell is not what you or the Quran says hell is…thats exactly what im talking about, the descriptions of Hell in the Quran are just pure evil…God is love and for you to believe in things like that, well if its true and the Quran is right I will wait for a God of love and compassion to rescue me and all those souls in it because for us to have love we must of got it from somewhere?
I haven't denied anything it is you that have denied Islam I haven't denied Christianity at all and look in the history books Christians have cut off many Muslims heads not to mention Christians have cut off many Christian heads.You lump acts of violence with belief even though The Quran nor The Bible justify wanton destruction but you won't disbelieve in Christianity for Christian offenses(Go figure)
I love Christians and Muslims and all believers you don't.
Do you enjoy the descriptions of Hell in the Bible?
Quote (JustAskin @ May 22 2010,10:08) Bod,
God's name is 'I AM'(, or 'I Will Be') in every language on Earth and in Heaven.In Hebrew it is 'YHVH', in English it is 'I Am', in French it is 'Je Suis', etc…
Okay, why would I have a problem with that? The Jews will only say Hashem and The Muslims will only say ALLAH and guess what they are both right because we are not to treat the name of God as common and use it as common and unholy even using it in debate and argument, that is using Profanity.You know what Holy means so why not follow what you know?
If Muhammad would have went up to a Jew and started using YHVH to debate his revelation they would have stoned him, No Jew runs around trying to find various ways to pronounce the Name of God. Saying “The God” is best for even The Name of God is not really a name at all because no one named HIM it is more an assertion of Reality. To say “I WILL BE” is not to say I was named that it is to say that it IS HIS NATURE.
Bod, you ask.:
Do I enjoy Hell in the Bible? You ask a question but you forget how many times have I explained to you how I view “hell” also explained bible translation errors, love of our neighbour as ourself, God gave us a mind to think to question to reason, and emptions compassion WHAT did he leave us as the most important commandment and what is all it summed up in? Love. How do we know (really) this isnt all some test? The bible – how can “outer darkness” become “a fire of torment”? Dark is dark, a fire is light – God is a CONSUMING fire, comsuming means to end. The bible is clear that there is the second death …and God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so whosoever shall believe in him shall no perish (>>PERISH?) but shall have eternal life…which is the gift. This is eternal punishment===Eternally ended.. because they chose not life.
Theres only one way to the Father and that is through the son Christ Jesus…you cant choose any other way its clearly said so clearly yet you choose to believe a lie? yet you question and doubt this and look for other ways and try to lead others after you..its like if I gave you a map and said “this is the only way you can get there” yet you ignore it and try some other way. ..the road which is narrow few are those finding it Many are those going down the path of DESTRUCTION death.
Best to stick with something like Youngs Literal Translation if in doubt to the meaning of any words or if it doesnt seem to agree with something.
The Quran is VERY clear on this twisted Hell concept the Bible isnt clear hense we have half the Christian world or more believing as I do. And actually the original church (apparently) established by the Disciples (eastern orthodox) believe also as i do that immortality is conditional.
I look at my Son and think, if he decided not to accept any religion = in your beliefs he will be WHAT? burnt in hot excretment BURNING FAT till his skin is falling away eyeballs popping out tortured beyond inamgination screaming for ever and ever PLEASE thats sick thats just unbelieveable evil thats not the God I know my God is love and I dont need to find any verses to prove this ..”you search the scriptures thinking in them you will find eternal life but refuse to come to me (Jesus)”……”how many times id have gathered you like a hen gathers its young but you would not”
“And of all those which will be done away with these three remain…faith hope and love but the greatest of these is love.”
You chose to believe in the Jehovah Witness idea of hell (death) and then chose to instead believe in this torture of humans? Wow.
Quote (karmarie @ May 22 2010,14:22) Bod, you ask.: Do I enjoy Hell in the Bible? You ask a question but you forget how many times have I explained to you how I view “hell” also explained bible translation errors, love of our neighbour as ourself, God gave us a mind to think to question to reason, and emptions compassion WHAT did he leave us as the most important commandment and what is all it summed up in? Love. How do we know (really) this isnt all some test? The bible – how can “outer darkness” become “a fire of torment”? Dark is dark, a fire is light – God is a CONSUMING fire, comsuming means to end. The bible is clear that there is the second death …and God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so whosoever shall believe in him shall no perish (>>PERISH?) but shall have eternal life…which is the gift. This is eternal punishment===Eternally ended.. because they chose not life.
Theres only one way to the Father and that is through the son Christ Jesus…you cant choose any other way its clearly said so clearly yet you choose to believe a lie? yet you question and doubt this and look for other ways and try to lead others after you..its like if I gave you a map and said “this is the only way you can get there” yet you ignore it and try some other way. ..the road which is narrow few are those finding it Many are those going down the path of DESTRUCTION death.
Best to stick with something like Youngs Literal Translation if in doubt to the meaning of any words or if it doesnt seem to agree with something.
The Quran is VERY clear on this twisted Hell concept the Bible isnt clear hense we have half the Christian world or more believing as I do. And actually the original church (apparently) established by the Disciples (eastern orthodox) believe also as i do that immortality is conditional.
I look at my Son and think, if he decided not to accept any religion = in your beliefs he will be WHAT? burnt in hot excretment BURNING FAT till his skin is falling away eyeballs popping out tortured beyond inamgination screaming for ever and ever PLEASE thats sick thats just unbelieveable evil thats not the God I know my God is love and I dont need to find any verses to prove this ..”you search the scriptures thinking in them you will find eternal life but refuse to come to me (Jesus)”……”how many times id have gathered you like a hen gathers its young but you would not”
“And of all those which will be done away with these three remain…faith hope and love but the greatest of these is love.”
You chose to believe in the Jehovah Witness idea of hell (death) and then chose to instead believe in this torture of humans? Wow.
So you simply believe that your son if not believing the way you do will be burnt beyond all redemption and out of existence?That is much worse.
I have to just give you one verse from MASTER JESUS:
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)
Do you notice that eternal life is used to compare to eternal punishment?
You said use young's so here:
Matthew 25:46 (Young's Literal Translation)
46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
Please don't tell your son that there is no Hell because it is the deception of Satan that there will be no eternal punishment
I'll believe in my God YHVH
You believe in your God Allah…ok?
YHVH is Love… I trust my God.
Through Jesus my Lord and Saviour.
Quote (karmarie @ May 22 2010,14:59) I'll believe in my God YHVH You believe in your God Allah…ok?
YHVH is Love… I trust my God.
Through Jesus my Lord and Saviour.
Isn't YHVH The God of ALL?Isn't it forbidden for you to even think there is another God?
Is YHVH your Lord and Saviour?
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 22 2010,15:37) You said use young's so here: Matthew 25:46 (Young's Literal Translation)
46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
ok this is interesting so 'age during punishment = a time of punishment, and life- age during = a time of life.So it seems theres a time where some are punished and some are in life. Both for a period of time. So then what?
A keyword search of these words…eternal eternity forever everlasting had very few finds and only applied to God and the Son
in the youngs literal the words 'age during' are used probably over 100 times..
Age during – pages and pages
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73
or skip to here the New Testement with many pages following
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….ber=101
So what is this age during? And what happens after this time?
Age during throughout the bible is translated from the word aionios
http://www.aionios.com/appendix_b.html
A search of the word death ends with this in revelations..
Revelation 2:11
He who is having an ear — let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies:
He who is overcoming may not be injured of the second deathRevelation 20:6
Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority,
but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Revelation 20:14
and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death;Revelation 21:4
and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more,
nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'Revelation 21:8
and to fearful, and unstedfast, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the liars,
their part [is] in the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone, which is a second death.'So 'Age during' life and 'age during' punishment.. then as above either death (the second death) or life in which there is no more- death..
Outer darkness followed by the lake of fire the second death. Just as I said.Bod,
God's said to Moses, “I am that I am” or others translate it: 'I will Be What I Will Be'.This is not what one actually says. God went on to say, 'therefore, tell them (The Hebrews) that 'I Am' ('I Will Be') has sent you'. He then went on to say, 'This is my name for everlasting'.
That is quite emphatic, I think.
But, that name spoken to Moses is a statement of completeness, of totality, of unshakeable firmness:
– He Is What He Is (and there can be nothing more, God, All in All).
– He Has Always Been What He Will Be.
– He Will Always Be What He Has Was.Names meant something in times past. It wasn't given willynilly like today.
God's name is not pronounced 'YHVH' in English because that is Hebrew. As in any language, things are either adopted or translated.
In English, it was chosen by some to translate it as Jehovah, others say, Yehovah. Because it didn't sit comfortably with the English speaking nations, the English translation, 'I Am' is not widely used. It feels uncomfortable because saying 'I am' is an every day term and hence doesn't fit against the feeling if calling God's name out of sorts. For this reason also, Trinitarians try to use 'I Am' as proof that Jesus is God, because Jesus said, once, 'I Am', meaning, 'I have been', 'I Was', 'I existed'… Further, everytime Jesus said 'I am…' in the Beatitudes, trinis claim that he was further proving that he was God (Note the use of 'was God'…I wonder what happened then…was God..is God…was God…is God…)So, Yahweh, Jehovah, God, is the common English way of refering to 'Him', God the Father. But, of course, this brings into contention other places where the 'TITLE' of 'God' is used relating to other persons, Men of Might, Angels of Power, who are also refered to as 'gods'. Trinitarians should now be thoroughly confused as now God is/always is God, Jesus was/is sometimes God and all men of power and Angels are also Gods…so they spin their way out of the latter aspect and never respond. And for the Jesus anomoly, they claim he was both God AND Man!
Truly though, God's name is universally a translation of the Hebrew Tetragramaton: “YHVH”: Yahveh, Jehovah, 'I Am'.
Interesting….Did Jesus speak his Father's name when reading the Scriptures in the Temple, or did he 'spellout' his Father's name or did he use 'LORD'? After all, it was only Jewish fear that made them stop actually pronouning God's name: Did Jesus have that fear?
Bod,
There are not two 'separate' Lords and Saviours. Everything such as this is inituated from God.
God, then delegated the duty to another – Jesus in this case.
Imagine…
If you are building a house, you say, ' I am building a house'
Then you employ a builder and that builder ACTUALLY builds the house, brick by brick.
Now ask the question: “who built the house”?
Houseowner to friend, 'Do you like the house I JUST BUILT'…
Housebuilder's family and friends to other friends,'Hey, there is that house HE BUILT?'..
Quote (karmarie @ May 22 2010,20:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 22 2010,15:37) You said use young's so here: Matthew 25:46 (Young's Literal Translation)
46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
ok this is interesting so 'age during punishment = a time of punishment, and life- age during = a time of life.So it seems theres a time where some are punished and some are in life. Both for a period of time. So then what?
A keyword search of these words…eternal eternity forever everlasting had very few finds and only applied to God and the Son
in the youngs literal the words 'age during' are used probably over 100 times..
Age during – pages and pages
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73
or skip to here the New Testement with many pages following
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….ber=101
So what is this age during? And what happens after this time?
Age during throughout the bible is translated from the word aionios
http://www.aionios.com/appendix_b.html
A search of the word death ends with this in revelations..
Revelation 2:11
He who is having an ear — let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies:
He who is overcoming may not be injured of the second deathRevelation 20:6
Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority,
but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Revelation 20:14
and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death;Revelation 21:4
and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more,
nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'Revelation 21:8
and to fearful, and unstedfast, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the liars,
their part [is] in the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone, which is a second death.'So 'Age during' life and 'age during' punishment.. then as above either death (the second death) or life in which there is no more- death..
Outer darkness followed by the lake of fire the second death. Just as I said.
So you don't believe that life will continue without end?
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