- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Nick, no, I do not believe in the universal salvation doctrine. I believe in the annihilation doctrine if you want to put a name to it.
Nick, if God truly tormented people forever and ever without end in something worse than the torment people suffer here, (such as in burning flames or darkness and misery) forever and ever without end, why worship a god who is doing that? why?
Would you rather not wish to get those people out of there?
Surely, if you saw someone suffering here now, you would want to save them. Are we only to “love our neighbor” in this life and not for eternity?
“The wages of sin is death”.Nick,
Hi Mila,
And what of the false prophet who is said to spend over 1000 yrs in the lake of fire?
Is that correct? I remember the Devil being imprisoned for a thousand years but I do not remember that. Can you please point to the Scripture. Thank you.
Hi Mila,
Two positive choices or possibly 3.
Obey the command given through Peter at Pentecost.
Take a chance at the final judgement that your works towards the brothers of Yeshua are sufficient to save you.
or
Hope for the special Mercy of God
Depends if you are a risk taker I suppose
Nick,
Is part of your post speaking about water baptism? I’m a big believer in that command. it’s no guarantee of anything but it is a beginning.
Hi Mila,
Yes.
A start.
The kingdom is like a fisherman pulling in a net and some fish must be discarded.
When is Death and Hell cast into the Lake of Fire? After the Millenium? Then Satan will be loosed from his prison…
So the final judgement takes part after this age and the next (Millenium).
“Forever and ever” is an interesting term. If forever meant eternity, then why say “forever AND ever”. Saying eternity and eternity doesn’t make sense. What the word really means is AGE. So it is saying for an age and an age, (ages / eon). So two ages would suffice to explain forever and ever.
The wicked will endure death and Hades. The smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
After this age and the Millenium, there will be a new heavens and Earth. No sin will dwell there. There will be no crying, pain, etc. The former things have passed away and will not come into remembrance.
This is the promise of God. When all is subject to him, then God will be in ALL. Of course that will happen after sin and death is completely dealt with because God will not dwell in sinful creatures, but only the righteous. Rejoice that God is bringing about a new creation where sin has never been and one that only the righteous will take part. It will be a beatuful creation where only good resides.
Hi t8,
Death and Hades are nothing to do with the judgement, just waiting places for the dead.
They are thrown into the fire when their usefulness comes to an end
Are you telling me this or repeating what I have said all along. lol.
Yes, Death and Hell end in the Lake of Fire, the Second Death.
Wicked souls existing in Hell for eternity is proven wrong by that scripture alone.
Do you believe that the wicked will suffer for all eternity in Hell given that you are aware of Hell’s fate?
Are you telling me this or repeating what I have said all along. lol.
Yes, Death and Hades end in the Lake of Fire, the Second Death.
Wicked souls existing in Hades for eternity is proven wrong by that scripture alone.
Do you believe that the wicked will suffer for all eternity in Hades given that you are aware of Hades fate?
According to the Bible, The Second Death doesn’t allow anyone to be tormented in Hell for eternity as some think. It is written clearly in scripture that Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire and the heavens and earth too. Then behold, there is a new earth and heavens and no more sin. God is good and only the righteous inherit eternal life. Some people think the Bible teaches that the wicked will have eternal life in hell, that is wrong on three points.
- The wicked do not inherit eternal life, (John 3:16).
- The human soul is not eternal, (Matthew 10:28);
- While Hell is a place of torment, it is not eternal as it is thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14);
Eternal judgement is what it says it is. It is a judgement that is eternal. If the wicked perish, it means they perish for eternity. They will never have life. But God has the last say in all things. While the soul that sins will die, God did find a way to save sinners.
Hi
Hell and sheol
Surely we have to accept this testimony of the translators themselves as to their honesty of purpose, but this does not explain why, in their translation, they almost always used the word ‘hell’ to translate the Hebrew word sheol when the reference was to the wicked, and ‘grave’ when the text pertained to the righteous.
And how simple it would have been to use the word ‘hell’ instead of ‘grave’ in Ecclesiastes 9:10; and how truth-revealing it would have been concerning the doctrine of hell. We quote the text with this translation: “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in hell [sheol] whither thou goest.” From this text alone, the English-speaking Christian who reads the King James Translation would have known that hell is not a place of torture, but a state of unconsciousness.
Genesis 37:35 is another revealing use of the Hebrew word sheol, or would have been had the King James translators used the word ‘hell’ to translate sheol, as they did in thirty-one other texts. In this text, Jacob, a faithful servant of God, weeping for Joseph, said, “I will go down into hell unto my son mourning.” From this text, had sheol been translated ‘hell’ instead of ‘grave’, the Christian world would have learned that the righteous as well as the wicked go to hell when they die.
The word sheol appears again in Job 14:13. In this text we find it Job asking God to let him die. Translating sheol by the word ‘hell’, this is what Job said: “O that thou wouldest hide me in hell, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!” The Old English word hell, or helle, meant ‘to be covered’, or ‘concealed’, and how appropriate it would have been to use it in Job’s prayer—a prayer in which he asked to be hidden, and to be kept in secret.
There seems little excuse for the translators not using the word ‘hell’ in this prayer of Job’s, yet, had they done so, the Bible would be saying that when a person dies he escapes God’s wrath, instead of having divine wrath poured out upon him in all its Dark Age fury. Yes, the translators did have a problem, but if they had been consistent in their translation of sheol.
It is not that the King James translators were compelled always to use the word ‘grave’ as a translation of sheol unless the reference was to the wicked, for in Psalm 16:10 they departed from this pattern and used the word ‘hell’ when they must have known that the text applied to Jesus. “Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell,” the text prophetically says of Jesus. In keeping with this text, and this translation, the Apostles’ Creed [which the apostles never saw nor heard of] states that Jesus “descended into hell.” Surely, if the Holy One, Jesus went to hell when he died the translators should have had no hesitancy in using the word ‘hell’ in texts referring to the death of other righteous persons.
It is obvious, of course, why they used the word ‘hell’ in the case of Jesus. If they had used the word ‘grave’, the text would have said that Jesus’ soul went into the grave, and this the translators did not believe. Since they wanted the reader of their translations to believe that hell was a place in which souls are alive, and the wicked ones tortured, it was thought better to put Jesus’ soul there rather than to have it die, as the Bible really teaches. Isaiah wrote of Jesus that “he … poured out his soul unto death.”—Isa. 53:12
The Greek word, hades, in the New Testament is the one which corresponds with sheol in the Old Testament. The translators of the King James Version recognized this, and in Acts 2:27 used the word ‘hell’ to translate hades. In this verse, Peter quotes Psalm 16:10 pertaining to the death and resurrection of Jesus. How clearly and beautifully this reveals the divine plan for the salvation of fallen man from sin’s penalty, which is death!
“The wages of sin is death.” (Rom. 6:23) Had the King James translators grasped the reality of this simple statement of divine truth, and in keeping with it, maintained uniformity in their translations of sheol and hades, how much easier it would have been for both the learned and the unlearned to grasp the truth of the divine plan!
Sheol, hades, hell, all describe the state of the dead. In the English language, ‘grave’ more properly describes the burial place, the excavation in the earth where the earthly remains of the dead are interred. In the Hebrew language the word qburah, or qeber, is the one most nearly corresponding to the English word grave. Since death is the penalty for sin, and Jesus took upon himself that penalty, it is logical that the Scriptures should speak of him as being in sheol, or hades, the Bible hell. So are the wicked tormented for ever NO. The words ever, ever for ever, eternal means age, ages of ages and age. They have a starting point and they have a end. Oh there’s much more. God bless
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
