Why are there two deaths?

This topic contains 100 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Anthony 3 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #789847
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Andrew,

    Part of Matt 25 is about the final judgement of mankind.

    But we have passed over from death to life in Christ.

     

    Matt 25 14-29 has a parallel in Lk 19.11-27

     

     

     

    There is no confusion in scripture

     

    #789848
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

     

    What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
    the soul that sins shall die
    for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
    hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
    But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.
    He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.
    What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction?
    And death and Hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
    I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
    I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
    and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
    Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
    They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
    By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

     

    All these are true but we do need to make room for the ones you deny

    Time is not the same to God.

     

    #789849
     t8 
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    Good Nick, you say you agree with these scriptures.

    This is what I teach. I say that the wicked soul will die, perish, be destroyed, along with the current heavens and earth. I teach that all men do not have an eternal soul as it is written above. This is important. Do not skip over this fact.

    Then you say that I am to make room for the ones I deny.

    Come again! I am simply repeating the scriptures above and have not denied any scripture at all.

    If I do that, then there is only one conclusion. The scriptures I have listed that I repeat again and again and am opposed for, are what denies these other scriptures you talk of.

    That is the only conclusion.

    People only argue with me because of what I have repeated from scripture. If you check, I have not verbally denied any scripture, but repeated the scriptures above ONLY, in the exact words or my own words.

    I think some of the members here who debate me on this need to figure this out. If you agree with the above scriptures, (which you should), then to you there are two sets of contradicting scriptures according to how you must see it.

    I’ll say it again, if the list above denies other scripture and we are not to teach from these or put these into our own sentences, then there has to be two sets of conflicting scriptures according to how you understand eternal judgement.

    #789851
     t8 
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    I teach for example that a man can lose his soul. It is not necessarily eternal unless he inherits eternal life.

    Nick you agree with this because you have stated here that you agree with:

    • What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
    • the soul that sins shall die
    • He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

    So what exactly am I denying by teaching this? Surely I am teaching what is written. It is the one who opposes this who denies it right?

    Could you explain the above and how it fits with your view of eternal wicked souls in Hell for all eternity?

    #789852
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Everyone is aware you are utterly convinced of your own understanding here.

    But you may not be right.

    #789853
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Men are all cursed by being born servants of sin because Adam accepted the serpent’s rulership..

    The work of God in Jesus is a rescue mission to save as many as possible.

     

    Judgement is according to obedience to that message of salvation.

    But there is still the mercy of God towards those who help the brothers of Jesus.

     

    The lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels.

    But those who have remained his servants also inherit it.

     

    Anihillation is not how scripture describes this situation.

     

     

    #789854
     NickHassan 
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    “Hi t8,

    “What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?”

    It is the soul that is judged after the spirit has left and the body returned to the soil of earth
    “the soul that sins shall die”

    Man was made a living soul. So MAN can be substituted.
    “He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

    No natural man can live forever.

    Only those reborn of the eternal Spirit do so.

    #789855
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    The false prophet is a MAN.

    He was thrown into the lake of fire[rev19] and still there over 1000 yrs later[Rev20]

    Can you explain this?

    #789950
     dL 
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    Galatians 3:3 “Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”

     

    1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know <i>them</i>, because they are spiritually discerned.”

     

    TRUTH IS NOT APPREHENDED WITH OUR INTELLECT – BUT WITH THE HEART…

     

    IT IS THIS VERY TYPE OF THEOLOGICAL REASONING,  WHERE WE LOOK TO OUR OWN NATURAL UNDERSTANDING, THAT PUFFS PEOPLE UP LIKE RELIGIOUS PHARISEES AND DECEIVES US – JUST THE SAME AS IT DECEIVED EVE IN THE GARDEN…

     

    Genesis 3:6 “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.”

     

    SHE TURNED FROM SIMPLY OBEYING GOD’S REVEALED WORD, TO TRUSTING INSTEAD IN HER OWN ABILITY TO REASON… WHICH HAD AN APPEARANCE OF GOODNESS, BEAUTY AND WISDOM…BUT WHEN WE DO THIS, LIKE THE PHARISEES, AND LIKE PETER, WE FULFILL THE DESIRE OF OUR ENEMY, SATAN..

    Matthew 16:23 “But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind Me, Satan: thou art an offence unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

     

    PETER SIMPLY EXPRESSED HIS OWN REASONING THAT SUGGESTED CHRIST SHOULD SEEK TO SAVE HIS LIFE FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE…YET, AS IS SHOWN, EVEN THE GOOD FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE LEADS TO DEATH

     

    Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not depend on your own understanding.”

     

    Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.”

     

    2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil people and impostors will flourish. They will deceive others and will themselves be deceived.”

     

    Jude 1:19 “It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.”

     

    WE MUST MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE ARE BEING TAUGHT ACTUALLY ORIGINATES FROM THE SPIRIT OF GOD – AND NOT THE MIND OF MAN..!!!

    #789956
     dL 
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    2 Thessalonians 1:9 “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might.”

     

     

    Everlasting – lasting for ever…

    Everlasting destruction is destruction that never ends, as those who have witnessed the reality of hell firsthand, all testify…they are continually being destroyed over and over again, but never annihilated – this is not eternal life, but eternal death…shut out from the presence of all that is good; all that is beautiful and pleasant…forever – without end.

    This is what the Scriptures teach without any theological spins…

     

    #790010
     miia 
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    IT IS THIS VERY TYPE OF THEOLOGICAL REASONING,  WHERE WE LOOK TO OUR OWN NATURAL UNDERSTANDING, THAT PUFFS PEOPLE UP LIKE RELIGIOUS PHARISEES AND DECEIVES US – JUST THE SAME AS IT DECEIVED EVE IN THE GARDEN…

    DavidL,

    John 8:44 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. “YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, AND YOU WANT TO DO THE DESIRES OF YOUR FATHER. He was a MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, and does not stand in the truth because there is not ruth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF LIES.”

    So, what was the LIE from the BEGINNING? Genesis 3:4: “The serpent said to the woman, “YOU SURELY WILL NOT DIE!”

    Now, isn’t it you who is saying that sinners will not die? even though God said “The wages of sin is death”.

    The modern day pharisees desire reward (eternal life) and fear punishment (the lie of eternal life for sinners albeit in torment). God however knows the thoughts and INTENTIONS of the heart. “The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”

    Satan (the father of lies) has not been sleeping, and has destroyed the intention of peoples heart (spirit) towards the top two commandments: love of God and love of neighbor. Jesus said “Whoever wishes to save his own life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” Scripture also says “There is no fear in love, for perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment, and those who fear have not been perfected in love.” (1 John 4:18).

    Your arguments may seem strong to you and like minded ones; but your arguments are extremely weak to those who truly know, imo.

    #790011
     miia 
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    2 Thessalonians 1:9 “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might.”

    Everlasting – lasting for ever…

    Everlasting destruction is destruction that never ends,

     

    That is insane. How can “everlasting destruction” be “destruction that never ends”.  What??

    “Everlasting destruction” means you are finished –  everlasting – there is no other chance… you are destroyed forever.

     

    #790013
     miia 
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    And I am not going to waste time posting other scriptures because, it’s pretty obvious you have ignored any scriptures others have shown you.

    #790015
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    Are you among those who TRULY KNOW?

    #790017
     miia 
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    Hi Nick. I can confidently say that I do know God and I know there will be no eternal conscious suffering for sinners. IF I am wrong (which I know I am not)… then the true God who is love will save them. But guess what – that already happened. It IS the true God who I know from the bible – the savior of mankind, the God who IS love.

    #790020
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    So, by your KNOWLEDGE  all the warnings given to mankind are just a smokescreen?

    #790021
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    God allows much suffering now but all changes at the judgement?

    Is mat 25 hogwash?

    #790022
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    Universal salvation is a very popular humanist myth.

    Is this your doctrine?

    #790024
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    God loves to be merciful and His book is full of examples of this wonderful generosity.

    But there are limits to it and they are specified too.

    #790025
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mila,

    Jesus paid a heavy price for our ransom.

    It was not unnecessary.

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