Who is this Jesus?

[942767]

Hi Wakeup:

You start off with the truth and then proceed to give your opinion. He did say that he was not God, and he also said that he is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

He is from everlasting because when God began to create, He knew that it was through His Son that His plan for this world would be fulfilled, and knew the precise time in which Jesus would be conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary. He was foreordained, but no, he did not pre-exist his birth into this world.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

so Jesus lied when he said that he was send from the father ,and that he would go back to his father ,and that he came from above ,and that only the one that ascend is because he descend first ,

at no point Jesus said this is not literal but symbolic, and at no time did Jean the baptist said he was joking when he said that Jesus existed before him ,or when Jesus said that he existed before Abraham ,

so you guy's can keep adding your own interpretation or opinions to what the scriptures are saying but I remain with the truth of God's words ,through his son and servants the apostles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ April 21 2014,19:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2014,12:24) 1.  I want you to recognize that the Apostles of Christ who made the prayer in Acts 4 did NOT consider Jesus to be the one who “made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”. Do you recognize that fact?  YES or NO? 2.  Are you willing to use the discretion of the expert Trinitarian scholars who translated the English versions when it comes to “the word of God”?   Are you willing to accept that if the “W” isn't capitalized, the phrase DOESN'T refer to Jesus Christ?  YES or NO? John 1:18 calls him THE **only** begotten God, NOT a god as you cant be THE God and the only God and a God all at the same time.

Jehovah is called “a God” a number of times in scripture, Daniel. In Isaiah 45:21, for instance, Jehovah calls Himself “A just God”.

He also calls Himself “a Savior” in that verse – despite the fact that He is elsewhere called “THE Savior”.

My two questions still await direct answers, Daniel.

(Btw, the “word of God” scriptures you listed in that last post don't count, since the Trinitarians who made the translation you quoted did not capitalize the “W” in “word” – which means Jesus was not the particular “word of God” mentioned in those scriptures. The phrase “Word of God” only refers to Jesus when the “W” is capped – remember? All other times, the phrase simply refers to words that God has spoken.)

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ April 22 2014,13:42)

Quote (4Thomas @ April 22 2014,07:13) Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2014,23:45) Daniel (THE Word was God! THE only Son of God – the Word of God *created* all things it was not a angel jesus… Please just believe that Jesus is THE only true Son of God FROM and OF his Fathers substance.) explain how the son is God Hi T, By substance FROM his Father. The very word God in hebrew is a plural word. We we say Jesus is THE Son of man – well then I don't need to then explain to you how Jesus become a man. Its honestly exactly the same thing. Jesus is NOT mary and Jesus is NOT the Father. See I dont believe in a STATIC, Solitude God, I also dont believe in a NON eternal Father. See I believe in an EXPRESSIVE God who radiates the testimony of his Magnificent glory. I look at the world and see it beauty, I see the beauty and compltness in adam and eve as the completeness and fullness of Man. I see the Father and the Son as the eternal glory of God. The Father is the source and he is God and Father by nature. BUT the very fact he is Father means he radiants his glory. Its not another substance BUT a TRUE Son from the source. Father expresses his Son, yet you dont have another or different substance. 1 x 1 is still 1 the same substance/nature. Adam and Eve are still man [human] Eve is FROM the rib of Adam where as Jesus is FROM the expressed Almighty radiance of the Father. The Word is NOT the father or another Father he is FROM the Father's very substance. Just believe that Jesus is The True Son of man THE man Jesus AND ALSO believe that Jesus is THE ONLY True Son of God Thats why scripture call him God time when ever they talk about Jesus before he humbled himself to take on flesh.   Life to you in the Son and his beautiful name Take care. Daniel Daniel Christ is the the son of God ,understand that as soon as he has been created ,he is now a different person /being from the father and God that created him , in Heaven Jesus was not the son of man ,this he became when he was born from Mary 's womb ;already possessing the title of son of God ,now he acquired the title of son of man , just as we are created through our parents ,we become totally independent of them after becoming mature , so it is with God

Hi T,
Let me clarify myself.
I don't think there was ever a time the Son was the Father.

I believe in an eternal unchanging Father.

James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

My statement of faith.

I don't believe in a eternal God of NOTHING
I don't believe in an Almighty God who isn't really Almighty
I don't believe in a eternal NON Father God.
I don't believe in a eternal STATIC, non expressive God
I don't believe in a eternal God of solitude that can only Love himself.

I truly believe in a eternal Almighty God who is eternally Father and unchanging.
He is expressive and truly eternally Almighty and the testament of the Fathers eternal power is found in the Son.
The Father eternally generates his Son who is the only begotten radiance full of grace and truth.

I believe
The only unbegotten God is the Father
The only begotten God [John 1:18] is the Son [The Word, The begotten radiance of the glory of the Father].

The entire divinity comes from the Father alone and is eternally expressed by the Father alone, the Son is NOT the Father and he is not another Father. The Son is instead the expressed substance of the Father's begotten Glory. Just like a river of life flowing FROM and OF the unbegotten snow.

When people draw water from the water-wells out of the earth these are fed FROM the river under the earth.

Both Water and Light are expressive examples of a source and substance being expressed.
Also Love is another easy to understand concept. You get pretty lonely if you have no-one to Love and care for.

T, I honestly care for you guys, all of you.
Please don't get the wrong idea, I dont want you to believe that the Jesus is the Father, NO not at all.

I want you to believe THAT Jesus is truly the Son of God, the begotten radiance OF and FROM the Fathers substance.

I don't know how to explain things more, I gave the example of the snow and its expressed substance [the water]

Another proven example would be the laws of physics that reveal that a expression generates an equal force.

Newtons third law.
Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

The father is truly Almighty, HOW is he Almighty, I believe its by the eternal generation of his Son that is FROM the Fathers begotten radiance.

The Son is the one and only true Son by nature and substance. The Son of God is awesome and he is the revelation of the expressed love and grace and mercy of the Father. I pray that we all recieve this mercy in our own unique way and draw closer to the Love and life of the Father through his Son our true Lord.

Love in the Son
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 23 2014,10:54)

Quote (4Thomas @ April 21 2014,19:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2014,12:24) 1.  I want you to recognize that the Apostles of Christ who made the prayer in Acts 4 did NOT consider Jesus to be the one who “made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”. Do you recognize that fact?  YES or NO? 2.  Are you willing to use the discretion of the expert Trinitarian scholars who translated the English versions when it comes to “the word of God”?   Are you willing to accept that if the “W” isn't capitalized, the phrase DOESN'T refer to Jesus Christ?  YES or NO? John 1:18 calls him THE **only** begotten God, NOT a god as you cant be THE God and the only God and a God all at the same time. Jehovah is called “a God” a number of times in scripture, Daniel.  In Isaiah 45:21, for instance, Jehovah calls Himself “A just God”. He also calls Himself “a Savior” in that verse – despite the fact that He is elsewhere called “THE Savior”. My two questions still await direct answers, Daniel.   (Btw, the “word of God” scriptures you listed in that last post don't count, since the Trinitarians who made the translation you quoted did not capitalize the “W” in “word” – which means Jesus was not the particular “word of God” mentioned in those scriptures.  The phrase “Word of God” only refers to Jesus when the “W” is capped – remember?  All other times, the phrase simply refers to words that God has spoken.)

Hi Mike,
Sorry have to go, I honestly believe that John was revealing that  the Word that the Father used to create the heavens was THE Son, I also believe that the breath of God is revealed as THE Holy Spirit.
I don't believe that every word or every breath FROM the Father is The Son, just as I don't believe that every breath OF Jesus is the Holy Spirit when he breathed on the disciples and said receive the Holy Spirit.
I will look into the bible schoolar thing about the captial letter but we know that Jesus is THE Word of God [The Son] and we know is was FROM the Father and by/through the Son and in the breath [the Holy Spirit] that all things where created. Every Word always contains the breath of the one who speaks it, a word cannot exist without breath. The Son also contains the Holy Spirit – this is the unity that the Son has with his true Father, The Father has eternally generated the Son with his breath. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ.
I dont think it was another Word FROM the Father that then THE Son used to create the heavens? do you understand how I see it?

take care mate.
Love and life in the Son
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

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My statement of faith. My statement of faith. I don't believe in a eternal God of NOTHING I don't believe in an Almighty God who isn't really Almighty I don't believe in a eternal NON Father God. I don't believe in a eternal STATIC, non expressive God I don't believe in a eternal God of solitude that can only Love himself.

Thank you for expressing your self more clearly ;

first and most important thing to remember from scriptures is that it is NOT US THAT ESTABLISH WHO GOD IS ,BUT THAT GOD LET AS KNOW HIM AS HE SEES FIT TO DO IT ,

SO WHAT WE BELIEVE AS TO BE IN ACCORDING WITH WHAT HIS WORD IS SAYING ,AND NOT WHAT WE WANT TO BELIEVE OF IT ,”YOUR WORD IS THE TRUTH “SAY CHRIST ,IT CANNOT BE ANY OTHER WAY ,IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING OR IT IS NOT CLEAR ,WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT AT ALL TIME THE OUTCOME IS THAT GOD MAY BE FOUND TRUTHFUL AND NOT A LIAR ,;BECAUSE SCRIPTURES SAYS '”LET GOD BE FOUND TRUE AND ALL MEN LIARS “””

SO YOUR FIRST OF YOUR COMMENTS ;I don't believe in a eternal God of NOTHING” ; IS THERE A SCRIPTURE THAT SAY THAT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN A GOD OF NOTHING NO' IS THERE A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD START TO CREATE YES , BY THE KNOWLEDGE OF THOSE TWO THINGS IT SHOWS THAT AT ONE TIME GOD DID NOT CREATE RIGHT YES ,DOES THAT MEAN THAT HE WAS A GOD OF NOTHING NO THIS WOULD BE THE WRONG ASSUMPTION WE CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW GOD AS HE IS ;

YOUR SECOND COMMENT;I don't believe in an Almighty God who isn't really Almighty”;AGAIN WHAT YOU(US) BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVE IS OF LITTLE CONSEQUENCE TO GOD HIMSELF ;SINS IT IS NOT US THAT CAN DETERMINE WHAT HE DOES OR NOT ,NOR WHO HE IS OR NOT IS ,OR WHAT REAL POWER HE HAS OR NOT ,SO WE SHOULD STICK TO WHAT GOD TELLS US ABOUT HIMSELF AND TAKE IT FROM THERE ,SO THAT OUR UNDERSTAND OF HIM WOULD BE TRUE AND NOT A LIE ,(MEN'S VIEW)

YOUR THIRD COMMENT ;I don't believe in a eternal NON Father God.'” THIS IS RELATED TO YOUR NUMBER ONE COMMENT ;

YOUR FOURTH COMMENT ;I don't believe in a eternal STATIC, non expressive God”” ; THIS COMMENT IS RELATED TO NUMBER ONE COMMENT

YOUR FIFTH COMMENT ;I don't believe in a eternal God of solitude that can only Love himself.””;AGAIN THIS COMMENT OF YOURS IS BRINGING ALL YOUR COMMENTS IN LINE WITH IT IT SEEMS YOU SAYING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER IN A DIFFERENT ANGLE , BUT EACH TIME NOT SUPPORTED BY SCRIPTURES ,

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I want you to believe THAT Jesus is truly the Son of God, the begotten radiance OF and FROM the Fathers substance.

THIS REMARK OF YOURS COMES BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN EVEN THOUGH I TELL YOU THAT I DO BELIEVE THIS TO BE TRUE ;

SO WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE THIS TO ME

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The father is truly Almighty, HOW is he Almighty, I believe its by the eternal generation of his Son that is FROM the Fathers begotten radiance.

I DO BELIEVE THAT GOD OUR FATHER IS ALMIGHTY ,ALL ACCORDING TO WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAYS ,BUT I DO NOT SEE IN SCRIPTURES WHAT YOU ARE NOW TELLING ME ; THIS IS WHY YOU CALL IT “” I BELIEVE ” BUT LIKE I TOLD YOU IN THE FIRST OF MY COMMENT GOD IS NOT WHAT WE BELIEVE OF HIM BUT WHAT GOD WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT HIM AND BELIEVE IT WHEN HE SAYS IT ;THIS IS I FEEL IS YOUR PROBLEM ;YOU CANNOT STICK TO SCRIPTURES YOU HAVE TO CHANGE SCRIPTURES FOR YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION AND TEACH IT ;THIS IS NOT WHAT THE TRUTH OF GOD IS ALL ABOUT IS IT NO,ALL MEN ARE LIARS

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The Son is the one and only true Son by nature and substance. The Son of God is awesome and he is the revelation of the expressed love and grace and mercy of the Father. I pray that we all recieve this mercy in our own unique way and draw closer to the Love and life of the Father through his Son our true Lord.

TRUE,BUT ALSO KNOW THAT THE SON WAS THE FIRST CREATION OF THE FATHER ;SO IT SAYS IN THE SCRIPTURES ;COL;1;15;21

[4Thomas]

Hi T,

Exactly we must submit to the scriptures.

As Jesus the Son of God became the Son of man he came to earth and his life AS A MAN is recorded.

The thing that I believe is the key thing to NOT being LOST is to understand ***WHAT*** Jesus THE Son ofMan was before he was recorded as walking this earth as A MAN (The Son of Man) There are many scriptures that also give prophesy about Jesus as the MAN and the humble servant who was led to the slaughter.

Now the watchtower will say Jesus was Michael and others will say he was just a prophet and Mormons will say the brother of Satan.

Now EVERY SINGLE scripture that talks and reveals what Jesus was before he took flesh reveal he is God, the only begotten God, the very nature God.

Ofcourse if he is THE only true Son, he will have the nature/substance of his Father. I agree totally that Jesus is FROM and OF the Fathers very begotten substance.

John 20
28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

These THINGS are truly written So *YOU* will believe THAT Jesus is THE ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD. not just the son of man as recorded in the gospels as he walked that world that was created through him THE WORD/THE SON.

T, try loving Jesus just a little more than you do now and tell the Father its because you also love him, Please tell me why you want me to believe that I cant Love Jesus with all my heart soul and mind and praise him and call him God.

The word was God [THE SON] -the ONE and ONLY begotten God.

If he is NOT your God like he is Thomas God what is he to you, you say hes not your angel and the Father is also your Lord so please answer what Jesus is to you.

blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Life in the Son
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

Quote

Now the watchtower will say Jesus was Michael and others will say he was just a prophet and Mormons will say the brother of Satan. Now EVERY SINGLE scripture that talks and reveals what Jesus was before he took flesh reveal he is God, the only begotten God, the very nature God.

see you do it again ;first i am not a JW and second I do not believe Jesus is or was Michael the ark angel ,I TOLD YOU THIS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIMES THAT YOU SHOULD REMEMBER ;IS THIS YOUR KEY WORD SO YOU DO NOT GET LOST

Jn 20:24 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came.
Jn 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”
Jn 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
Jn 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
Jn 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jn 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Jn 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

THIS STORY DOES NOT BY ANY MEANS MAKES CHRIST THE FATHER OF HIMSELF BEING THE SON OF ;OR DO YOU DENY THE WORDS OF THE ONE THAT WROTE THOSE SCRIPTURES JOHN ;WHEN HE SAYS IN VERSE 31 ;But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

WAS JOHN AND THE OTHERS NOT WITH JESUS WHEN THOMAS SAID THIS YES BUT IT SEEMS THAT THEY DID NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE NOW FROM THOSE SCRIPTURES IS IT NOT ;

MT 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

WHEN PETER SAID THIS ALL THE DISCIPLES WHERE WITH JESUS ;Mt 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

IT IS SO OBVIOUS THAT EVEN THOMAS DID NOT DISAGREE WITH WHAT ALL THE OTHERS AGREE WITH ,

OR DO YOU THINK THOMAS CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT CHRIST BEING THE SON OF GOD AND LATER MAKE HIM THE GOD OF WHICH HE WAS THE SON OF

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T, try loving Jesus just a little more than you do now and tell the Father its because you also love him, Please tell me why you want me to believe that I cant Love Jesus with all my heart soul and mind and praise him and call him God.

I LOVE CHRIST AND HIS /OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN MORE THAN MY OWN LIFE ,HOW COULD I LOVE HIM MORE IF NOT IN TOTAL TRUTH OF HIS WRITTEN WORDS ,

BUT YOU DO NOT SEE OR REFUSE TO SEE TRUTH EVEN IN YOUR OWN QUOTATIONS OF SCRIPTURES SO THAT YOU ONLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE RIGHT OR WRONG ;

UNDERSTAND THAT “THOMAS” IS NOT CHRIST NOR THE OTHER TEN DISCIPLES THAT LIVED WITH CHRIST NIGHT AND DAY ,THOMAS IS NOT EVEN MENTION TO OFTEN IN SCRIPTURES ,AND YET YOU OVER SHADOW ALL THOSE THAT WROTE THE SCRIPTURES ;PETER,JOHN,JUDE,PAUL,MATHEW,LUKE,

ALL THOSE DISCIPLES BELIEVED THAT CHRIST WAS THE SON OF GOD ,EVEN THE ROMAN THAT HANG HIM ON THE STAKE AGREE THAT CHRIST WAS THE SON OF GOD ;

SO WITH SO MANY WITNESSES I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE STILL BELIEVING A LIE

YES CHRIST IS CALLED A GOD AND FOR GOOD REASONS ,AGREED ,BUT HE IS NOT THE GOD OF WHICH HE IS THE SON OF

[terraricca]

DANIEL

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Exactly we must submit to the scriptures.

KEEP YOUR WORD ;AND MAKE TRUE RESEARCH DO NOT LET THE DEVIL KEEP YOU BLIND

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ April 24 2014,01:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2014,12:24) 1.  I want you to recognize that the Apostles of Christ who made the prayer in Acts 4 did NOT consider Jesus to be the one who “made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”. Do you recognize that fact?  YES or NO? 2.  Are you willing to use the discretion of the expert Trinitarian scholars who translated the English versions when it comes to “the word of God”?   Are you willing to accept that if the “W” isn't capitalized, the phrase DOESN'T refer to Jesus Christ?  YES or NO? Hi Mike, Sorry have to go, I honestly believe that John was revealing that  the Word that the Father used to create the heavens was THE Son……… I will look into the bible scholar thing about the captial letter……. take care mate. Love and life in the Son Daniel

I agree, Daniel.  Only in scripture, it is said that GOD did the creating THROUGH the Word/Jesus Christ.

It doesn't say that Jesus ever actually created anything.  In fact, there are many scriptures that clearly distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the one who created ALL THINGS.

I have quoted parts of the prayer in Acts 4 – as one way to show you this scriptural fact.  I still have not received your answer to this prayer, but here is another one:

Acts 17
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

The speech starting in verse 24 carries on through verse 31.   But these two verse are all we need to know that the God who made the world and everything in it is NOT the man He raised from the dead.

So once again, Jesus is CLEARLY identified as someone OTHER THAN “the God who made the world and everything in it “.

I accept your answer to #2 – that you will “look into it”.  In the meantime, let's just stick to the theory that if the “W” isn't capped, “word of God” does not refer to Jesus.

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ April 28 2014,01:22)

DANIEL Quote Exactly we must submit to the scriptures. KEEP YOUR WORD ;AND MAKE TRUE RESEARCH DO NOT LET THE DEVIL KEEP YOU BLIND

Hi t,
The most important thing you need to know about *the* Son is.

1: Who is he
and
2: What is he

Now we know he is the Son of man when he became flesh.

What I need to know FROm you is WHAT was he before he became flesh.

What does scripture teach. The Word was God, the *only* begotten God. Now if you dont agree you need to use scripture to show WHAT he was *before* he took flesh.

Remember don't use scripture that identifies Jesus as a man in his human nature.

t, I dont think Jesus is Mary, even though he is the Son of man.

Jesus is the ****ONLY**** Son of God, God by nature THATS WHY HE WAS KILLED.

Look into why he was killed and what he was *before* he took flesh

Life in the Son

Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

you have to learn to answer my questions also ;if not why do we talking if you are going to do all the talking ;

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ April 28 2014,22:37)

Daniel you have to learn to answer my questions also ;if not why do we talking if you are going to do all the talking ;

Hi t,
I only had 10 minutes and didn't even have time to reply to Mike,

You think I lie by calling Jesus THE Son, God. So I ask you WHAT is he before he took flesh???

Here are some **EXPLICIT** examples of Scripture -TRUTH-
of WHAT Jesus was before he took flesh, NOTE: no mention of a angel Jesus, because Jesus is God THE Son. The ***ONLY** true Son of God = God. this is why he was killed!!!

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Tit 1:3-4
But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of GOD OUR SAVIOR  To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and THE LORD JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR.

Phi 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for THE SAVIOR, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST:

Tit 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST;

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST have received a faith as precious as ours:

1 John 5:20
New International Version
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Of course Jesus is the only true Begotten God, Jesus is THE only begotten God and he is NOT a FALSE God. Satan is THE God of all falsehood and lies, he is the source of all lies.

So to answer your question, all the disciples were there when DOUBTING thomas called to said him [JESUS]  My Lord and My God.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

What did Jesus say???????

Was it
A: DON'T say that to me
B: Blessed are you and blessed are those that dont see BUT STILL BELIEVE. Jesus even rebuked phili[ for asking to see the Father because Jesus is THE Lord of Glory, Jehovah in the Old testament, the Father never came to earth and the Father was never seen on earth as Jehovah the Almighty. Jesus said for the sake of our salvation. For the sake so we wont be LOST that no-one has ever seen the Father.

There is NO WAY that any reasonable person could read scripture and believe that Jesus was NOT the true and only Son of God, God by nature before he took flesh. You had to have been raised in an environment that has forced you to reject the plain meaning of scriptures, I have meet some wonderful Jehovah Witnesses and even looked at their teachings because I had a crush on a girl who i really wanted to get in touch with who was a Jehovah witness. I was not raised in any church teaching and wasn't even baptised. I can honestly say that there is noway I could believe Jesus was NOT God [the Son] before he took flesh.

Philippians 2:6
New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New Living Translation
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

How you think I'm lying for believing that Jesus is God [the Son] is with all honestly beyond my understanding…

Convinve me with YOUR Scripture WHAT jesus was BEFORE he was FLESH.

This is WHAT this debate is all about.
It just child faith believing that Jesus is THE only true Son of God. Son of God = God.   Son of man = man.    Same basic law of understanding.

John 5:18
New International Version
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

JOHN 5 continues with the greatest revealations

34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.

WHO WAS THE JEHOVAH THAT CAME TO EARTH and praise the name of JEHOVAH. it was Jehovah [the only Son] Study Moses writings and you will see scripture truth

39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41“I do not accept glory from human beings,

Matthew 11
25At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Sorry this is so long but you need to understand this is just a very small section of the weight of scripture I can bring,  Jehovah said he would not give his glory to another, he alone made the heavens , he alone is the first and the last, he alone is savior… I can go on and on with **scripture** TRUTH.

I just ask for ONE scripture that have to teach WHAT foundation you are built on.

WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE HE TOOK, flesh.

PLEASE convince ME, because you only appear focussed on Jesus in the flesh, the MAN messiah. He is NOT just a man alone, he was only on earth for 33 years, WHAT was he BEFORE the recording of his life..

Please FOR YOUR sake please look at this and test what I say.

Lets compare the scripture TRUTH of WHAT Jesus was before he took flesh.

I hope this effort does not come across as I think i'm better than you, im here because i want nothing more to led people to THE only true Son and his Father.

Also thankyou for your testomony how you love the Son , that was great to read, why not achor your foundation on your beliefts to WHAT Jesus was before he took flesh. You even have admitted that you believe THAT Jesus is FROM and OF the Fathers very substance, that's the truth because he is the true Son.

the only true Son [true God] the only one FROM the Father alone.

with Love, truth and life in the Son
Daniel.
[Please just give me the scriptures that show that the Son was something other than God the Son before he took flesh] otherwise if you cant please choose.

Is the Son
A: more close to being a angel  OR
B: more close to being the nature of his Father God

Happy to answer any questions. Mike, I will try and get back to you tomorrow I just need to check if they captise the greek for the Word, but the sake that it was, *BY* the Word that the heavens where made and that JESUS is revealed by John as The Word that made all things and that “””nothing was made without him””” [the Word] Common sense would indicate that Jesus is the Word that created the heavens etc.. take care and please accept JESUS as the true Son of God [God the only Son].

Happy to end this debate if you cant use scripture to show WHAT Jesus was before he took flesh.

[terraricca]

Daniel

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John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” What did Jesus say???????

IT SEEMS THAT NONE OF THE APOSTLES OR JESUS SAID SOMETHING ;SO I WANDER IF THOSE WORDS WERE REALLY SAID ,??? FOR ALL THE APOSTLES AND JESUS ALWAYS REFER TO CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD AND LORD,AND NOTHING ELSE ;

SO DO YOU NOT FIND THAT SUSPICIOUS ? THAT NO ONE IN THE SCRIPTURES CALL HIM GOD EVEN SOME SCRIPTURES REFER TO HIM AS BEING “A GOD”

WHY ARE YOU SO FROZEN ON THOMAS FEW WORDS THAT CONTRADICT ALL WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURES

I WILL BY NO MEANS TAKE THAT AS A SERIOUS STATEMENT BECAUSE BEING THE ONLY SUCH A STATEMENT AND THAT IT CONTRADICT AT THE LEAST 11 OTHER APOSTLES AND THE ENTIRE BIBLE TEACHINGS ;

[terraricca]

Daniel

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[Please just give me the scriptures that show that the Son was something other than God the Son before he took flesh] otherwise if you cant please choose.

Col 1:15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,(Jesus)

[terraricca]

Daniel

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Happy to end this debate if you cant use scripture to show WHAT Jesus was before he took flesh.

what you try to prove you never prove to me that Christ is God almighty

you do not understand that THE SON CANNOT BE THE ONE OF WHOM HE IS THE SON OF

[terraricca]

Daniel

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PLEASE convince ME, because you only appear focussed on Jesus in the flesh, the MAN messiah. He is NOT just a man alone, he was only on earth for 33 years, WHAT was he BEFORE the recording of his life..

you start to sound like the pharisees and scribes ,and doctors of the law ,

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Please FOR YOUR sake please look at this and test what I say.

no one as to stand before God for me ,I can do that every day ;but you have the responsibility for your own soul to search the truth ,and think you have it then why do you not answer my questions

[terraricca]

Daniel

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WHO WAS THE JEHOVAH THAT CAME TO EARTH and praise the name of JEHOVAH. it was Jehovah [the only Son] Study Moses writings and you will see scripture truth 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

you start to sound like that church from the philippine ;swinging from one end to the other and go nowhere ;this shows you do not know were you are going ;

[4Thomas]

Hi t,

You can't have an almighty God of Nothing especially an eternal Almighty *unchanging* Father.

Child faith.

I can prove explicitly with scripture that it was THE Son who appeared as THE ALMIGHTY in the old testament.

Exodus 6:3
2God also said to Moses, “I am the Lord [Yahweh]. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord [Yahweh] I did not make myself fully known to them. 4I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.

Moses indeed wrote about Jesus and revealed that, God appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty.
This makes John 1:18 when it explicitly states, No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God, we know the Father was never begotten to earth but instead it was the Father who sent his Son. God from God, light from light, true God from true God. The active testimony of the Fathers Almighty glory and power.

Genesis 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD [Yahweh] appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

John 8:56
56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Genesis 26:24
That night the LORD [Yahewh] appeared to him and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham.”

Genesis 26:2
The LORD [Yahweh] appeared to Isaac and said, “Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land where I tell you to live.

Genesis 35:9-11
After Jacob returned from Paddan Aram, God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10God said to him, “Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel. ” So he named him Israel. 11And God [Yahweh] said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants.

Genesis 48:3
Jacob said to Joseph, “God [Yahweh] Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me

Why did Jesus speak CLEARLY for the sake of peoples salvation say that no one has ever seen the Father form. Scripture explain why, it because no one has access to the Father except through the one and only Son.

T, I believe that the Jesus is THE true Son of God [God the Son]

You are **truly** the one following the pharisees and scribes because they didn't believe THIS, because this basic truth would make Jesus God by nature because even the simple know that a true Son by nature and substance has the exact same substance/nature as there Father.

Exodus 6:3
2God also said to Moses, “I am the Lord [Yahweh]. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord [Yahweh] I did not make myself fully known to them. 4I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.

Moses indeed wrote about Jesus and revealed that, God appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty.
This makes John 1:18 when it explicitly states, No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God, we know the Father was never begotten to earth but instead it was the Father who sent his Son. God from God, light from light, true God from true God. The active testimony of the Fathers Almighty glory and power.

Genesis 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD [Yahweh] appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

John 8:56
56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Genesis 26:24
That night the LORD [Yahewh] appeared to him and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham.”

Genesis 26:2
The LORD [Yahweh] appeared to Isaac and said, “Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land where I tell you to live.

Genesis 35:9-11
After Jacob returned from Paddan Aram, God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10God said to him, “Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel. ” So he named him Israel. 11And God [Yahweh] said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants.

Genesis 48:3
Jacob said to Joseph, “God [Yahweh] Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me

Why did Jesus speak CLEARLY for the sake of peoples salvation say that no one has ever seen the Father form. Scripture explain why, it because no one has access to the Father except through the one and only Son.

Ofcouse John believed Jesus was God, that why he called Jesus the Word, God. Remeber the Word was God. Not a false God but true God.

PLEASE STOP FOLLOWING THE pharisees Who could NOT believe that Jesus was THE true Son of God, they thought it was blasphemy because it makes the Son equal with the Father and it appears you follow them and think its also blasphemy.

Jesus accepted worship and Paul and the angels REFUSED Worship. The disciples grabbed JESUS feet and *then* Worshiped him.

Again you have NO FOUNDATION, all you can say is that Jesus isn't an angel but is a angel and you expect me to believe he is NOT truly THE **only** Son of God, God by nature!

PLEASE SHOW ME WHAT JESUS WAS BEFORE HE TOOK FLESH
Every scripture declare that it was God who humbled himself to take flesh, the word was God, Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Life in THE only true Son of God.
Daniel

[Proclaimer]

Daniel. Jesus own words testify of the truth as to who the true God is and it is not Jesus. He states it clearly and he says that these words are eternal life. So you better listen up.

John 17:3
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

Jesus was either wrong or right when he spoke these words. And if you read the rest of scripture without Trinity lenses on, you will also see that the rest of scripture agrees with Jesus words of eternal life.

e.g., our brother Paul states in 1 Corinthians 8:6
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live., just as there”.

Daniel, rather than trying to convince men that Jesus is God, why not convince men that Jesus Christ is Lord. After all, all will confess this eventually. Further, Jesus is our brother and God calls us children. Know the difference because eternal life was to know God and Jesus.

Finally, the Trinity states that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Spirit is God right. That is, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. But have you heard the words, “the Son of God” or “the Spirit of God”? Sure you have, but now ask yourself, have you heard the term “The Father of God”? No you have not. Yet that is what you are teach when you teach the Trinity. This doctrine has made people from all nations drunk. The Father is not the Father of God, no he is God. Jesus the son and the Spirit are OF God. Simple stuff. Not complicated. Simplicity in Christ.

[Author]

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