Who is this Jesus?

[terraricca]

all

Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 25 2014,22:49)

You need to refute that Jesus can't be man because he is the Son of Man before you can refute that Jesus can't be God because he is the one and ONLY true Son of God.

Can Jesus BE the VERY man that he is the son OF?  No.

Therefore Jesus can't BE the VERY God that he is the Son OF either.

Consider your point refuted.

[4Thomas]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2014,02:41)

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 26 2014,11:28) Hi Wakeup, Oh… so you believe Jesus was God but is not longer God because he took flesh? I don't agree but sorry I think I misunderstood what you where saying. In anycase Jesus is revealed as God multiple times even after he took flesh. Blessings Daniel 4Thomas. I like your analogy of the snow. But you are also calling the snow water. Water comes out of snow,just as the Word came out of God. The Word of God is God's Word: not God. They are of the same substance,yes. Thomas said: my Lord— *AND*— my God. Jesus and His God. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

Sorry just had time to finally check on here my time is very limited. Full time work and a good sized family tends to do that

EVERY example of Jesus nature before he took flesh EXPLICITLY reveal Jesus was God by nature. That's why is such an *amazing blessing to be an *adopted* Son of God. We can partake in the nature but we are not that nature.

The Word was God, just like Eve was human.

In the beginning was MAN [Adam] and eve was with MAN and eve was MAN [Human] >>> Man is used for EVE and Adam.
Anyhow scripture is very clear the Words was indeed God. Because he is the one and only true Son of the Father.

Philippians 2:6
New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

The **important** thing to note with Thomas is…

Thomas said TO HIM, my Lord and my God. Thomas did NOT just say my Lord and my God, he actually directed his exclamation to Jesus.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Everyone important was there with Thomas and the beloved John, the great Peter and Paul also explicitly call Jesus God.
There is no angel Jesus and Jesus is NOT a man alone. He is the nature of his true Father, its honestly common sense and just takes child like faith.

The great Peter calls Jesus *our* God
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

The great Paul calls Jesus *our* great God.
Titus 2:13
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

And ofcourse the Father himself calls his one and only true Son God, even though his Son took on the nature of man, being the Son of man and making his very own Father his God by entering the world as a created man, the man messiah Jesus.

Hebrews 1:8
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

The beloved john calls Jesus God.

John 1:18
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.

English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

and EVEN the NWT admits this truth!!

Jesus is God [the Son] this is why he was crucified.

John 5:18
New International Version
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

You cant be saved with the wrong Jesus, and Jesus says explicitly he who rejects him [Jesus], he will reject them infront of his Father.

Eveyone believes Jesus is the Son of God but all people realize he has the same nature/substance as his true Father.

Jesus was called Jehovah and appeared **multiple** times as Jehovah and the Almighty.

Jesus even said that NO-ONE has ever seen the Father [or his form] at anytime. The disciples EVEN hold Jesus feet and worship him.

Love and Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2014,12:48)

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 25 2014,22:49) You need to refute that Jesus can't be man because he is the Son of Man before you can refute that Jesus can't be God because he is the one and ONLY true Son of God. Can Jesus BE the VERY man that he is the son OF?  No. Therefore Jesus can't BE the VERY God that he is the Son OF either. Consider your point refuted.

Hi Mike,

I'm not a oneness Pentecostal so lets be honest and use truth. Be honest to yourself. You are a good person and you know exactly what i'm saying.

The Father is NOT the Son and THE Son is NOT the Father.

The one and only true Son has the same nature FROM and OF his true Father. The Father is God [unbegotten] The Son is God [begotten] from the Father. God from God, light from light.

Its common sense you cant have an Almighty eternal God of Nothing. My Father is eternally Almighty and he is Eternally Father. He is the true Father of his begotten radiance of his Glory who is the Lord of Glory. Not *a* lord or an angel.

Honestly,The Son is true God by nature FROM his Father, Please accept Jesus as the one and only true Son of God.

Love and Life in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Daniel

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 27 2014,18:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2014,12:48) Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 25 2014,22:49) You need to refute that Jesus can't be man because he is the Son of Man before you can refute that Jesus can't be God because he is the one and ONLY true Son of God. Can Jesus BE the VERY man that he is the son OF?  No. Therefore Jesus can't BE the VERY God that he is the Son OF either. Consider your point refuted. Hi Mike, The Father is NOT the Son and THE Son is NOT the Father.

Hi Daniel,

I hope you and the family are well.

Jesus is the Son of “the Most High”. Scripture tells us this, right? And “the Most High” is the God who created all things, right? Scripture also tells us that.

So, the only question is: Is Jesus “the Most High”, or the Son of “the Most High”?

Because just like Jesus couldn't possibly BE the very MAN he was the son of, he also couldn't BE the very “Most High God” he is the Son of.

….yet for us, there is but ONE God, THE FATHER……..

Jesus either IS that “one God”, or he is the Son OF that “one God”.

Which one is the scriptural answer, Daniel?

[terraricca]

Daniel

Quote

Jesus is God [the Son] this is why he was crucified.

RO 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
1TH 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

do you have a scripture to support your claim ,those i quote are against your claim

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2014,07:28)

all Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Amen and amen!!

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Matthew 26:62
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered.

John 5:18
New International Version
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Blessings
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2014,11:46)

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 27 2014,18:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2014,12:48) Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 25 2014,22:49) You need to refute that Jesus can't be man because he is the Son of Man before you can refute that Jesus can't be God because he is the one and ONLY true Son of God. Can Jesus BE the VERY man that he is the son OF?  No. Therefore Jesus can't BE the VERY God that he is the Son OF either. Consider your point refuted. Hi Mike, The Father is NOT the Son and THE Son is NOT the Father. Hi Daniel, I hope you and the family are well. Jesus is the Son of “the Most High”.  Scripture tells us this, right?  And “the Most High” is the God who created all things, right?  Scripture also tells us that. So, the only question is:  Is Jesus “the Most High”, or the Son of “the Most High”? Because just like Jesus couldn't possibly BE the very MAN he was the son of, he also couldn't BE the very “Most High God” he is the Son of. ….yet for us, there is but ONE God, THE FATHER…….. Jesus either IS that “one God”, or he is the Son OF that “one God”. Which one is the scriptural answer, Daniel?

Hi Mike,

The Father is also true Lord and I believe it is a sin to say otherwise.

Do you also refute that the Father is true Lord?

The Son is explicitly called *the* Almighty Jehovah in the Old Testament.

You cant get any higher than Almighty, yet the Father does have higher authority just as adam is the head of Eve.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[terraricca]

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 28 2014,06:49)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2014,07:28) all Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Amen and amen!! Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 26:62 62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered. John 5:18 New International Version For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Blessings Daniel

Daniel

so you agree that nowhere scriptures tells us that the son of God is or became the father of which he is the son of

either in the OT or NT

[mikeboll64]

Daniel,

Is Jesus the Most High, or the Son of the Most High?

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

Daniel does not believe the Son IS the Father, or that he became the Father.

[terraricca]

Mike

I know but he does try to insinuate it that they both are existing all the time this would mean the same thing ,in a sins

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2014,09:31)

Pierre, Daniel does not believe the Son IS the Father,  or that he became the Father.

Thank you Mike,

Pierre, I honestly don't think the Son is the Father.

I truly believe that Jesus is the one and only true Son of God by nature/substance.

I believe the Father is the most high God. I dont believe that the Father is generated or begotten so I believe the Son is the expressed testimony of Father's Most *High* Almighty power nature.

I believe the Father eternally generates his true nature/substance as the one most high God, his radiance and glory which is testified in his true and eternal Son.

I believe that the Father is a perfect Father and that everything he has is found in his true Son.

I believe that the nature of Eve is equal to the nature of Adam, because Eve came from Adam.

Likewise as the Son is FROM and OF the Fathers substance, the Fathers begotten and eternally expressed glory I believe that the one and only true Son of God is equal in nature to his true Father.
Otherwise the Father isn't true Father and the Son isn't true Son by nature and substance.

I believe in God from God, light from light, true God from true God.

I believe the Father is the source of the entire divinity, just as Adam is the source of the whole of humanity.

I don't believe the Father is passive [or non expressive]
I believe the Father is explosive/expressive and eternally Almighty, I believe the Father expresses that he is the most high God by eternal generation, by the generation of the only begotten God, his Son.

Think of the example of the snow on the mountain being expressed and begotten as the river of life that flows from it.

I truly believe that the river is h20 the exact sane substance as its source, both the snow and river are h20.

You can have many things that look like water, h202 (which is hydrogen proxide) which can be dangerous etc.

I believe that you can only know the most high God by knowing the expressed substance of the most high God which is his true Son, FROM and OF his very nature.

The Son is not the Father and he is not another Father, he is instead the one and only expressed substance of the Fathers glory and radiance.

Sorry I have to go now but I hope I have clarified what I believe.

If I was a perfect Father my Son would be *lacking* in nothing from my nature he derives from me, **but** with humans there is also a Women involved this is not true with the one and only Son, he is generated and not born like a Women gives birth to a baby.

Take care and lets pray for each other in truth and love.
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

Thanks for that clarification ,but between God almighty and his son their is and will be a few difference that the son can not overcome ,1) God as no beginning the son as ,2) the son cannot do anything without his father and God,3) the son was tested the father was not ,4) the glory of the father is not the same as the son ,5) the son lives by the power of his father ,but the father live by his own power,

so your explanation does not stand because they are different and so not as water and ice

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 30 2014,23:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2014,09:31) Pierre, Daniel does not believe the Son IS the Father, or that he became the Father. Thank you Mike…………..

You're welcome Daniel……….. now answer my dang question!

Jesus either IS the Most High God… or he is the Son OF the Most High God.

Which one is it………. according to scripture?

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2014,12:04)

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 30 2014,23:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2014,09:31) Pierre, Daniel does not believe the Son IS the Father, or that he became the Father. Thank you Mike………….. You're welcome Daniel……….. now answer my dang question!   Jesus either IS the Most High God… or he is the Son OF the Most High God. Which one is it………. according to scripture?

Hi Mike,

The Father is the Most high unbegotten God.
The Son is the Most high begotten God.

The Father is the eternal source of the Son,

I don't believe in a static and non-active God who sits in eternal isolation.

I believe in The Father, who is truly Father, who is truly eternally Almighty Father.

Like I have said before you cant have an Almighty God of nothing, it defies common sense.

I'm also to scared to say the Father wasn't really Father eternally and I'm to scared to say he wasn't eternally Almighty and glory and power and love.

The Father is *THE* Father like no *OTHER* he is truly the definition of Father.

I believe its a sin to call anyone God unless they are true God by nature.

It is only true and right to call the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit God because they are God by nature and substance.

It is common sense that the Son has the same nature as his true Father, the Father can't have a greater nature than his true Son.

Sons submit to their Fathers, just as Wifes should submit to their husbands but no-one can claim to have a **greater** nature even if one has a greater *authority*.

I believe that the *ranking* of the Father is greater because he is the source of the Son but I can't say that the Fathers nature and substance is greater because otherwise you have a fatal flaw in the Fathers Fatherhood.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have the same nature and substance. This is because the Son derives his true nature and substance FROM his true Father.

The Father is unbegotten, ungenerated, uncaused, unoriginated, he is the source of the whole divinity. Beyond understanding except through his Son.

Yet you can't have a Eternal Father of nothing especially an eternal *Almighty* Father.

Eve is the image of man just as the Son is the image of the Father.

The Son is begotten, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, the expressed substance and radiance of the Fathers begotten glory [the Fathers begotten Word/substance whom through he made the entire universe and heavens and whom he saved the entire World],
The one and only true Son by true substance and nature.

It is impossible to divide the Substance of the unbegotten Father from the substance of the begotten Son (God). the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. When you see the Son you see the Father.

The Holy Spirit is the unity of the Love and Life and Spirit nature of the unbegotten Father and the begotten Son.

The Son is not another Father and he is not the Father but instead he is the eternal generated/begotten radiance of his Father. True light from true light and the one and only true Son by nature.

What more can I say…

The Son is – the Son of the Most high God [unbegotten Father]
AND
The Father is – the Father of the Most high God [begotten]

At the time of creation
Eve is human and was the greatest Women
Adam is human and was the greatest man

Adam wasn't the greatest Women
Eve wasn't the greatest man [male]

Both are unique just like the Father and the Son, this is the whole point, please understand what i'm saying.

The Father is the source
The Son is expressed/begotten substance of that source.

The Son is more pleasing to the Father than Eve was to Adam. The Son is eternally perfectly pleasing to his Father.

I truly believe this is because the Son is reciprocal image of Father.

By reciprocal I mean the Son is NOT Father or another Father.

Just as eve is the expressed glory of man, flesh from his flesh.

The Son is the radiance of the glory of God [hebrews 1:3].

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

Quote

I truly believe this is because the Son is reciprocal image of Father. By reciprocal I mean the Son is NOT Father or another Father. Just as eve is the expressed glory of man, flesh from his flesh. The Son is the radiance of the glory of God [hebrews 1:3].

thanks this is good ,now we have to understand what the radiance is ,right but scriptures says RADIANCE OF THE GLORY OF GOD NOT OF GOD RIGHT

Col 1:15 He is the image; AND CHRIST THE SON OF GOD IS ALSO THE IMAGE SO”THE TRUE REPRESENTATION OF GOD'S NATURE ” RIGHT

Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, WHAT IS THE FULLNESS OF GOD THAT THE SON RECEIVED TO DWELL IN HIM

Quote

Just as eve is the expressed glory of man, flesh from his flesh.

BUT MAN AND MAN ARE ALSO FLESH SO ARE THE SONS OF MAN NOT THE GLORY OF THEIR FATHERS BUT HOW CAN THAT GLORY BE LOST OR CAN IT NOT BE LOST

AND WHAT IS THAT “GLORY “

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 31 2014,23:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2014,12:04) Jesus either IS the Most High God… or he is the Son OF the Most High God. Which one is it………. according to scripture? Hi Mike, The Father is the Most high unbegotten God. The Son is the Most high begotten God.

I have read in scripture about ONE “Most High God”.  And I have read in scripture about the Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, Lamb, Word, and Priest OF that ONE “Most High God”.

So, using only the scriptures, and taking into consideration who the SCRIPTURES say is the “Most High God”, and who the SCRIPTURES say is the “Son OF the Most High God” – which one is Jesus?  The Most High God?  Or the Son OF the Most High God?

Which one, please?

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2014,10:17)

Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 31 2014,23:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2014,12:04) Jesus either IS the Most High God… or he is the Son OF the Most High God. Which one is it………. according to scripture? Hi Mike, The Father is the Most high unbegotten God. The Son is the Most high begotten God. I have read in scripture about ONE “Most High God”.  And I have read in scripture about the Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, Lamb, Word, and Priest OF that ONE “Most High God”. So, using only the scriptures, and taking into consideration who the SCRIPTURES say is the “Most High God”, and who the SCRIPTURES say is the “Son OF the Most High God” – which one is Jesus?  The Most High God?  Or the Son OF the Most High God? Which one, please?

Hi Mike,

I have answered this.

Jesus is the one and only begotten God

John 1:18
New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

even the NWT admits this.

If you are THE **only** begotten God, then by default you HAVE to be the most high begotten God.

The Son derives his nature from the Father.

Even Eve derived her nature from Adam, to exprees the image of God.

Genesis 1:26-27
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Jesus is the Son of man = true man You agree YES/NO
Jesus is the one and only true Son of God = true God.

I have also already shown you that Jesus is revealed multiple times as THE Almighty Jehovah.

Jesus said “no one has seen God at anytime” for the sake of our salvation******. That VERY import don't you think. Please -dont- reject the gift of Jesus, the only Son of God.

Do you believe Jehovah the Almighty is the most high God? Yes/No

Because Jesus is the only begotten God and revealed as Jehovah Almighty.

Take care and please accept Jesus as the true Son of God – true God by nature FROM and OF his Fathers substance.

Just look at your Son and tell me if you have a greater nature than him? Are you are better Father than the only true Father?

Take care and please understand what I say is in love and truth.
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Hi Mike,
A Father may have higher authority than a true Son but its absolutely false to say that any true Son has a lessor nature or substance than their true Father.

This is ***why** the jews wanted to **kill** Jesus. Because he claimed that God was his very own Father.

That why its so very very important to truly believe with all your heart that Jesus is the only true Son of God.

Praise to the Lord God Almighty. The Father and the Son and their Holy Spirit
Daniel.

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