Who is this Jesus?

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,12:53)

DANIEL Quote Romans 9:5 New International Version Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. DID YOU READ THE FOOT NOTES ON THAT VERSE NET © To them belong the patriarchs, 1  and from them, 2  by human descent, 3  came the Christ, 4  who is God over all, blessed forever! 5  Amen. NIV © Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, for ever praised! Amen. NASB © whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. NLT © Their ancestors were great people of God, and Christ himself was a Jew as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. MSG © to say nothing of being the race that produced the Messiah, the Christ, who is God over everything, always. Oh, yes! BBE © Whose are the fathers, and of whom came Christ in the flesh, who is over all, God, to whom be blessing for ever. So be it. NRSV © to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. NKJV © of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came , who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. KJV Whose [are] the fathers _, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who (5752) is over all _, God blessed for ever _. Amen _. NASB © whose are the fathers , and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh , who is over all , God blessed forever . Amen . GREEK wn R-GPMoi T-NPMpaterev N-NPMkai CONJex PREPwn R-GPMo T-NSMcristov N-NSMto T-NSNkata PREPsarka N-ASFo T-NSMwn (5752) V-PXP-NSMepi PREPpantwn A-GPNyeov N-NSMeuloghtov A-NSMeiv PREPtouv T-APMaiwnav N-APMamhn HEB NET © [draft] ITL To them belong the patriarchs , and from them , by human descent, came the Christ , who is God over all , blessed forever ! Amen . NET © To them belong the patriarchs, 1  and from them, 2  by human descent, 3  came the Christ, 4  who is God over all, blessed forever! 5  Amen. NET © Notes 1 tn Grk “of whom are the fathers.” Because of the length and complexity of the Greek sentence, a new sentence was started here in the translation. 2 tn Grk “from whom.” Here the relative pronoun has been replaced by a personal pronoun. 3 tn Grk “according to the flesh.” 4 tn Or “Messiah.” (Both Greek “Christ” and Hebrew and Aramaic “Messiah” mean “one who has been anointed.”) 5 tn Or “the Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever,” or “the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever!” or “the Messiah who is over all. God be blessed forever!” The translational difficulty here is not text-critical in nature, but is a problem of punctuation. Since the genre of these opening verses of Romans 9 is a lament, it is probably best to take this as an affirmation of Christ’s deity (as the text renders it). Although the other renderings are possible, to see a note of praise to God at the end of this section seems strangely out of place. But for Paul to bring his lament to a crescendo (that is to say, his kinsmen had rejected God come in the flesh), thereby deepening his anguish, is wholly appropriate. This is also supported grammatically and stylistically: The phrase ὁ ὢν (Jo wn, “the one who is”) is most naturally taken as a phrase which modifies something in the preceding context, and Paul’s doxologies are always closely tied to the preceding context. For a detailed examination of this verse, see B. M. Metzger, “The Punctuation of Rom. 9:5,” Christ and the Spirit in the New Testament, 95-112; and M. J. Harris, Jesus as God, 144-72.

Hi T,
I did the different translations but thanks have now read the NET footnote you provided.

NET ©
To them belong the patriarchs, 1  and from them, 2  by human descent, 3  came the Christ, 4  who is God over all, blessed forever! 5  Amen.
NET © Notes
1 tn Grk “of whom are the fathers.” Because of the length and complexity of the Greek sentence, a new sentence was started here in the translation.
2 tn Grk “from whom.” Here the relative pronoun has been replaced by a personal pronoun.
3 tn Grk “according to the flesh.”
4 tn Or “Messiah.” (Both Greek “Christ” and Hebrew and Aramaic “Messiah” mean “one who has been anointed.”)
5 tn Or “the Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever,” or “the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever!” or “the Messiah who is over all. God be blessed forever!” The translational difficulty here is not text-critical in nature, but is a problem of punctuation. Since the genre of these opening verses of Romans 9 is a lament, it is probably best to take this as an affirmation of Christ’s deity (as the text renders it).

Although the other renderings are possible, to see a note of praise to God at the end of this section seems strangely out of place. But for Paul to bring his lament to a crescendo (that is to say, his kinsmen had rejected God come in the flesh), thereby deepening his anguish, is wholly appropriate. This is also supported grammatically and stylistically: The phrase ὁ ὢν (Jo wn, “the one who is”) is most naturally taken as a phrase which modifies something in the preceding context, and Paul’s doxologies are always closely tied to the preceding context. For a detailed examination of this verse, see B. M. Metzger, “The Punctuation of Rom. 9:5,” Christ and the Spirit in the New Testament, 95-112; and M. J. Harris, Jesus as God, 144-72.

T, this affirms that it is indeed Jesus *the* Word, the God, **the** only begotten God (John 1:18), who was made flesh.

Jesus is God over all because *NO-ONE* has access to the Father without going through Jesus and belonging to Jesus, this is the condition, so Jesus is Lord of all, *the* Lord of Glory.

T, to call someone *THE* Lord of Glory is worship unless by nature they are indeed *THE* Lord of glory and Jesus is because he is the radiance of the Almighty Father Jehovah.
 
The Father indeed has greater authority as the Son is of and from the Fathers substance.

I worship the Father in one spirit, one nature,including his radiance. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and the spirit of Son in communion and love, yet the Holy Spirit is not the Father alone and he is not the
Son alone. He takes from the Son and glorifies the Son. Just as the Son glorifies the Father.

John 16 niv
9about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

12“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father.    
I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell.
I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving.

I think what you do directly to the Son has the direct impact to the Father.

We should never call anyone *THE* Lord unless they are actually *THE* Lord. I would even call anyone *The* Son or *THE* Teacher or *THE* instructor

Matthew 23
8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

And we certainly should never ever call anyone *the* Father except the Father Almighty. I don't call *THE* Son the Father just as I don't call the Father *THE* Son.
One divine nature.
The Father who is ungenerated
The Son who is eternally generated
The Holy Spirit who is the expression of Love and communion of the Father and Son.

One God, One Lord, One Spirit. 1 x 1 = 1
From whom, through whom and in whom.

If you don't worship the Son how do you worship the Father. How can you get past the Fathers expressed begotten radiance, THE Word, without going through him, *THE Lord of Glory. The *only* begotten God.

Love and Life in *the* Son and in his name
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

Quote

T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father. I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell. I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving.

you have to understand that i do not make the rules , i do recognize that Christ is a god ,being the the son of GOD his father ,make it clear that he is very important ,but it is his words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him ,

what ever explanation you may turn things to justify otherwise it would be men's view not Christ view ,so I stick to the son words ,and submit to his father and GOD

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,03:58)

Daniel Quote T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father.     I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell. I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving. you have to understand that i do not make the rules , i do recognize that Christ is a god ,being the the son of GOD his father ,make it clear that he is very important ,but it is his words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him , what ever explanation you may turn things to justify otherwise it would be men's view not Christ view ,so I stick to the son words ,and submit to his father and GOD

T.

Quote

words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him

.

HOW WRONG CAN YOU GET:
HOW CAN ONE ONLY WORSHIP GOD WITHOUT WORSHIPPING HIS WORD.HOW CAN ONE EVEN COME TO GOD, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH HIS OWN WORD.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him,
***I fell at his feet as dead***.
And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; ***I am the first and the last***:

Romans 14:11 For it is written,
***As I live, saith the Lord, *every knee shall bow to
me***,
and every tongue shall confess to God.

YOU HAVE BEEN WORSHIPPING ANOTHER GOD ALL THAT TIME.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,16:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,03:58) Daniel Quote T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father.     I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell. I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving. you have to understand that i do not make the rules , i do recognize that Christ is a god ,being the the son of GOD his father ,make it clear that he is very important ,but it is his words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him , what ever explanation you may turn things to justify otherwise it would be men's view not Christ view ,so I stick to the son words ,and submit to his father and GOD T. Quote words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him . HOW WRONG CAN YOU GET: HOW CAN ONE ONLY WORSHIP GOD WITHOUT WORSHIPPING HIS WORD.HOW CAN ONE EVEN COME TO GOD, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH HIS OWN WORD.  Revelation 1:17   And when I saw him,             ***I fell at his feet as dead***. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not;       ***I am the first and the last***: Romans 14:11   For it is written, ***As I live, saith the Lord, *every knee shall bow to       me***,      and every tongue shall confess to God. YOU HAVE BEEN WORSHIPPING ANOTHER GOD ALL THAT TIME. wakeup.

W

You are lost in your understanding ,

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,16:59)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,16:46) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,03:58) Daniel Quote T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father.     I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell. I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving. you have to understand that i do not make the rules , i do recognize that Christ is a god ,being the the son of GOD his father ,make it clear that he is very important ,but it is his words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him , what ever explanation you may turn things to justify otherwise it would be men's view not Christ view ,so I stick to the son words ,and submit to his father and GOD T. Quote words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him . HOW WRONG CAN YOU GET: HOW CAN ONE ONLY WORSHIP GOD WITHOUT WORSHIPPING HIS WORD.HOW CAN ONE EVEN COME TO GOD, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH HIS OWN WORD.  Revelation 1:17   And when I saw him,             ***I fell at his feet as dead***. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not;       ***I am the first and the last***: Romans 14:11   For it is written, ***As I live, saith the Lord, *every knee shall bow to       me***,      and every tongue shall confess to God. YOU HAVE BEEN WORSHIPPING ANOTHER GOD ALL THAT TIME. wakeup. W You are lost  in your understanding ,

T.

So stand up and come up with scriptures
and proof to me and everyone here.

Dont just say: You are lost.
What does that do, for your side of defence?
Nothing!

wakeup.

[terraricca]

W

Quote

So stand up and come up with scriptures and proof to me and everyone here.

YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT TOPIC ,PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FROM ITS BEGINNING ,YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SCRIPTURES NEED FOR THE SUPPORT OF WHAT I HAVE SAID EVEN MIKE AS SOME GOOD COMMENTS ,

I CANNOT KEEP UP TO SAY THE SAME THINGS TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE SCRIPTURES,

YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN ,AND AS TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF THE SCRIPTURES ARE TRUE AND WORLD WHILE TO BELIEVE

[4Thomas]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,21:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,03:58) Daniel Quote T, I honestly don't understand how you can worship the Father alone, when *no-one* has direct access to the Father.     I worship the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit, in unity and in Spirit where the Father and Son dwell. I honestly don't know how you could WORSHIP the Father when *no-one* has direct access to the Father except through the Son. I also don't think of *the* Son like a funnel or a passive device that sends without receiving. you have to understand that i do not make the rules , i do recognize that Christ is a god ,being the the son of GOD his father ,make it clear that he is very important ,but it is his words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him , what ever explanation you may turn things to justify otherwise it would be men's view not Christ view ,so I stick to the son words ,and submit to his father and GOD T. Quote words to worship only his father and GOD ,at no point in scriptures does it say to worship the son of GOD but to honor him . HOW WRONG CAN YOU GET: HOW CAN ONE ONLY WORSHIP GOD WITHOUT WORSHIPPING HIS WORD.HOW CAN ONE EVEN COME TO GOD, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH HIS OWN WORD.  Revelation 1:17   And when I saw him,             ***I fell at his feet as dead***. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not;       ***I am the first and the last***: Romans 14:11   For it is written, ***As I live, saith the Lord, *every knee shall bow to       me***,      and every tongue shall confess to God. YOU HAVE BEEN WORSHIPPING ANOTHER GOD ALL THAT TIME. wakeup.

Amen,

Indeed you right, how can you worship the Father without first expressing your Worship to the eternal Radiance of the Father.
Light from light true God from true God.

T, Jesus said multiple times he did does not glorify himself because he leaves it to his Father. The Father gave Jesus this to testifly that no-one has seen the Father at any time.

This revealation for FOR THE SAKE OF SALVATION.

I care for your SOUL, for your salvation and you need to call on the name of Jesus. Without Jesus there is no salvation because he alone provides access to the father, *NO-ONE* else.

Acts 4
12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,04:53)

W Quote So stand up and come up with scriptures and proof to me and everyone here. YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT TOPIC ,PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FROM ITS BEGINNING ,YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SCRIPTURES NEED FOR THE SUPPORT OF WHAT I HAVE SAID EVEN MIKE AS SOME GOOD COMMENTS , I CANNOT KEEP UP TO SAY THE SAME THINGS TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE SCRIPTURES, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN ,AND AS TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF THE SCRIPTURES ARE TRUE AND WORLD WHILE TO BELIEVE

Really?

All the scriptures, come on T.

You only have one that you have twisted.

Just because Jesus says to satan, that God alone should be worshiped [the only scripture you have] that doesn't mean he is teaching he is NOT to be worshiped.

Jesus is FROM and OF that one God, the Father. Jesus is the external radiance. This is why Jesus said he and his Father are *one*.

Lets compare the scriptures,

The Father command all angels to worship his Son, thats all arch angels also

Be save din Jesus name
Daniel

[terraricca]

Quote (4Thomas @ Jan. 13 2014,04:27)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,04:53) W Quote So stand up and come up with scriptures and proof to me and everyone here. YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT TOPIC ,PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FROM ITS BEGINNING ,YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SCRIPTURES NEED FOR THE SUPPORT OF WHAT I HAVE SAID EVEN MIKE AS SOME GOOD COMMENTS , I CANNOT KEEP UP TO SAY THE SAME THINGS TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE SCRIPTURES, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN ,AND AS TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF THE SCRIPTURES ARE TRUE AND WORLD WHILE TO BELIEVE Really? All the scriptures, come on T. You only have one that you have twisted. Just because Jesus says to satan, that God alone should be worshiped [the only scripture you have] that doesn't mean he is teaching he is NOT to be worshiped. Jesus is FROM and OF that one God, the Father. Jesus is the external radiance. This is why Jesus said he and his Father are *one*. Lets compare the scriptures, The Father command all angels to worship his Son, thats all arch angels also Be save din Jesus name Daniel

DANIEL

Quote

You only have one that you have twisted.

and which is that one

Quote

Jesus is FROM and OF that one God, the Father. Jesus is the external radiance. This is why Jesus said he and his Father are *one*.

Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me— so that they may be one as we are one.

are all the 144k God as well ??,as you say it should be that they are if the bold letters are correct right and as per your interpretation

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,09:50)

Quote (4Thomas @ Jan. 13 2014,04:27) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,04:53) W Quote So stand up and come up with scriptures and proof to me and everyone here. YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT TOPIC ,PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FROM ITS BEGINNING ,YOU WILL FIND ALL THE SCRIPTURES NEED FOR THE SUPPORT OF WHAT I HAVE SAID EVEN MIKE AS SOME GOOD COMMENTS , I CANNOT KEEP UP TO SAY THE SAME THINGS TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THE SCRIPTURES, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN ,AND AS TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF THE SCRIPTURES ARE TRUE AND WORLD WHILE TO BELIEVE Really? All the scriptures, come on T. You only have one that you have twisted. Just because Jesus says to satan, that God alone should be worshiped [the only scripture you have] that doesn't mean he is teaching he is NOT to be worshiped. Jesus is FROM and OF that one God, the Father. Jesus is the external radiance. This is why Jesus said he and his Father are *one*. Lets compare the scriptures, The Father command all angels to worship his Son, thats all arch angels also Be save din Jesus name Daniel DANIEL Quote You only have one that you have twisted. and which is that one Quote Jesus is FROM and OF that one God, the Father. Jesus is the external radiance. This is why Jesus said he and his Father are *one*. Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me— so that they may be one as we are one. are all the 144k God as well ??,as you say it should be that they are if the bold  letters are correct right and as per your interpretation

T,
Jesus became a man so we can be saved.

We through GRACE *alone* become memebers of the Body of Christ by adoption. We are all called in the *one* Spirit.

We have access to God through the one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] if God is in us through the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is also in God.

The key difference is the nature, only the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit are God by nature.

Men and arch angels like satan arent god BY *nature*

You twist the scriptures because Jesus NEVER says NOT to Worship him, he says to worship God alone, when satan trys to get the incarnated Jesus to worship him. Satan understand that Jesus was fully man also. satan of course tried it on.

Jesus said the truth that we should worship God alone and not satan. Jesus accepted being called God…. So your arguement is worthless and it proves that you are twisting the single scripture you have badly misquoted.

The new testament reveals that Jesus should be worshiped, exact same greek word and everyone read geek in those days. Even the watchtower who teaches that Jesus is mucahel the angel couldnt deny for the first 80 years that Jesus shouldnt be worshiped.

ANSWER ME THIS!!! PLEASE
Now why when Jesus was worshiped -did he never teach he should NOT be Worshiped, instead they fall and hold his feet and then WORSHIP him [explicit geek worship] Jesus heals them and blesses them and forgives them their sins.

God dwells in those who love Jesus.

Without knowing you make *the* Son of God into a son of God like anyone else, you dont even love Jesus with all your heart soul and mind.

PLEASE accept him as your true Lord
Life in the Son and his name
Daniel

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Dec. 29 2013,18:34)

Thanks Mike, Jesus is God by nature, he is not the source but the radiance of the source.

Hi Daniel,

Only the “source” is God the Creator.  If Jesus is not that “source”, then Jesus is not God the Creator.

I noticed that you didn't specifically reply to the points I made in my last post.

After you directly address some of those points, we can move on to other things.

[terraricca]

daniel

Quote

You twist the scriptures because Jesus NEVER says NOT to Worship him, he says to worship God alone

do you know what the word “ALONE” means ? if you do this is your answer

and the rest of your comment does not addressed John 17;11 and my question there on

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,10:57)

Quote (4Thomas @ Dec. 29 2013,18:34) Thanks Mike, Jesus is God by nature, he is not the source but the radiance of the source. Hi Daniel, Only the “source” is God the Creator.  If Jesus is not that “source”, then Jesus is not God the Creator. I noticed that you didn't specifically reply to the points I made in my last post. After you directly address some of those points, we can move on to other things.

Hi Mike

Jesus was the Word of God wasn't he?
All things were created through the Word.
Without the Word, nothing that was made was made.
If that is not the source, then what is?

[mikeboll64]

journey,

Listen to your own words for the answer:

“Jesus was the Word of God wasn't he?”

The One the Word was OF is the ONE who created all things. That ONE is the only “source”.

Look what else you said:

“All things were created through the Word.”

Let me remind you: He who creates is ONE, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is ANOTHER. – Tertullian

God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created you, journey. The fact that God chose to do that THROUGH your parents does NOT equate your parents with the ONE who actually created you.

So see? Your own words give you the answers to the questions you're asking me.

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,10:57)

Quote (4Thomas @ Dec. 29 2013,18:34) Thanks Mike, Jesus is God by nature, he is not the source but the radiance of the source. Hi Daniel, Only the “source” is God the Creator.  If Jesus is not that “source”, then Jesus is not God the Creator. I noticed that you didn't specifically reply to the points I made in my last post. After you directly address some of those points, we can move on to other things.

Hi Mike,
Sorry I have been away travelling the north island and went to a Christian music festival called parachute in Hamilton. Some of the music wasn't Christian but some of it was really good. Had a great time with Wife and Children.
Is it ok if you list the question you want me to answer I honestly thought I answered everything. there isn't a single thing I have tried not to answer or refused to answer.

I have a simple faith and my understanding is very simple and common sense. I don't believe the Son is the Father and never confuse this. The Son is the radiance of the Father.

Jesus is the Son of Man. He is Man
Jesus is the Son of God. He is God [*Not the Father*]

Jesus is FROM and OF his mother flesh “Mary” so he is fully human and he is man.

Jesus is FROM and OF his Father's substance so he is fully God.

*THE* one and ONLY Son is the radiance of the Father. The Father is always eternally Almighty and eternally Father he always has his radiance and expressed almighty power revealed in his Son.

It is also **BY** the Fathers Word [ his Son] that the heavens were created.

The Son is creator and savior and God.
Just as the Father is creator and savior and Lord

I usually call the Father God and the Son Lord but I can ALSO call the Father Lord and the Son God because the Father is truly Lord and the Son is truly God.

I will answer your questions and after i answer them can you please answer me how you believe satan and gabriel and micahel among other are a God when Jesus is
The *one* and **Only** Begotten God.

I have been prayer for you guys and I want nothing more to answer your questions honestly and openly with the power of the Holy Spirit so you can feel free to Love Jesus, the Lord of Glory with all your heart soul and mind.

Take care
Life and Love in the Son and in his name. Jesus is Jehovah the Son who glorifies Jehovah his Father, without loving them with everything you have there is nothing.
Daniel

[Wakeup]

JESUS IS GOD:
1.If Jesus is God,then it is God that died on the cross.
This contradicts the scripture in John that says.
And God so loved the world that He GAVE HIS ONLY
BEGOTTEN SON. Not gave Himself.

If Jesus is God; then the angels and the universe was with
no God for three days and three nights;and there will be
chaos.Because everything is framed by the Word of God.

If God on earth died; and there is still a living God in
heaven;
Then God is not really truly dead,is He?
This only means that God says one thing, and does the
other. And Jesus would just pretend to cry to His father
My God My God,and yet he is that God himself.This is like
playing hollywood.

Jesus said that he is the IMAGE of God; not God Himself.
His works done on earth is by instructions of His God.
What ever He says or does is all done under instruction.
God speaks His mind, and Jesus let out the words.
God does not repeat himself everytime he speaks.

Jesus is now next to God Now His Father. He does not
knoweverything what God has in his mind. Like the day
and the hour of His coming.Enything God keeps in His
mind Jeus will not know. And He also will be in
subjection to His God. And when all is finished and
done,and a new earth;
God will will deal with all his children face to face Him self.
Now what about Jesus?? What about Him?
Well: He just goes back into the bosom of his Father
where he came out of in the days of creation.In the
beginning

SPOKESMAN:
2. Now if Jesus was created a spokesman just to do Gods
work, just like the prophets. Then He would be created at
birth. Every creature has a biginning. But scripture says
that he is from everlasting,and that he is the mighty God,
the prince of peace(isa,9). Some have scraped this
scripture.Because it's not in harmony with their doctrine.

God also said that he was brought forth, before the world
was. And God also said that he will not give his glory to
another. And beside Him there is no saviour.He is God
and there is none beside Him. Now what about the
created spokesman and all his glory.

For every knee shall bow down before Him.And there is no
name on earth greater than His. And what about the glory
he had before the world was? Was he created before the
world,before the angels? How can he be from everlasting?
He must have a beginning.
So this spokesman theory is not working.

THE WORD OF GOD:
3.The truth is in John's words. The Word was with God and
the Word was God.
BEFORE the beginning of creation there was only God.
He has not spoken his mind *yet*, He was silent.
Just him and him alone with no Word spoken.
THIS IS WHEN JOHN SAID: AND THE WORD *WAS*GOD.
WAS;PASS TENSE.

Then God decided to create. First thing He did was to
bring forth His Word,and gave him a form.For God's
Word is a living Word.
Everything what is in God's mind this being spoke out.
Everything God wants in His mind,its done by his Word.
All things were created through Him by the power of
God.

He was transformed into flesh and named Jesus,and
He still does the same thing. What God says in his mind
He spoke out in words. What ever God wants done; He
does it.

He was taken back to where He was;to heaven
and sitting next to now His Father. Waiting for His next
assignment.He will come back with the wrath of God to
destroy what satan has created during all those years.
And to collect His saints. And start His kingdom on earth,
with all his saints ruling with Him.

wakeup.

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,11:24)

daniel Quote You twist the scriptures because Jesus NEVER says NOT to Worship him, he says to worship God alone do you know what the word “ALONE” means ? if you do this is your answer and the rest of your comment does not addressed John 17;11 and my question there on

Hi T,
Sorry i'm not ignoring you just getting time to reply.
I understand what alone means. Notice everytime scripture says God alone created the heavens by his Word or that God alone is the first and the last, or God alone is Savior or God alone is good and he is also sheppard, i'm sure you know Pasalms 23 the Lord is my sheppard… Jesus said there is just one sheppard and that he was the good sheppard

So one of the many of scriptures that reveal that the Son is one with the father in nature, because the Son is FROM and OF the Father, who is the source, the one God.

John 10

25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Are you aware of the scripture Jesus is quoting from when he says noone can snatch his sheep from his hand or the fathers hand??? Yet another revelation that says see that I am alone and no one can snatch them from my hand.

example
See the Snow on a mountain top is the source of the river that flows down a mountain the river by nature is h20 and the snow by nature is h20, they are one but the river is not the snow and the snow is not the river.
Don't try and control the river but except it as the life that flows from the pure snow, the source.

How are we one. This is what i believe
When we are born of God [scripture teaches we are born of Love] we are true Christains, we unite in Love and as the Holy Spirit lives in us we are one Body of believers in the one spirit. When we are born of agape [love] we share in the nature of God but we are not God by nature – instead we express his nature and become adopted children of God.

Ephesians 4
2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

There is one spirit, one lord and one God.
Surely we admit that the father is spirit and Lord just as we admit that the Son is God and spirit. And we know that the Holy Spirit the one spirit, is by nature God because he is the expressed image of Love and unity between the Father and Son. the Holy Spirit is not the Son and he is not the Father.

Life and Love in the Son
Daniel

[terraricca]

daniel

Quote

There is one spirit, one lord and one God. Surely we admit that the father is spirit and Lord just as we admit that the Son is God and spirit. And we know that the Holy Spirit the one spirit, is by nature God because he is the expressed image of Love and unity between the Father and Son. the Holy Spirit is not the Son and he is not the Father.

you still do not answer my question regarding John 17;11

and your comment ;goes like this ; HIS ,BUT IS NOT ;HIS BUT IS NOT ,HIS BUT IS NOT ;THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE TRINITY BLOOMING

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2014,10:55)

daniel Quote There is one spirit, one lord and one God. Surely we admit that the father is spirit and Lord just as we admit that the Son is God and spirit. And we know that the Holy Spirit the one spirit, is by nature God because he is the expressed image of Love and unity between the Father and Son. the Holy Spirit is not the Son and he is not the Father. you still do not answer my question regarding John 17;11 and your comment ;goes like this ; HIS ,BUT IS NOT ;HIS BUT IS NOT ,HIS BUT IS NOT ;THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE TRINITY BLOOMING

Hi T,
The trinity is only scary if you hear it explained from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

The trinity means tri-unity
It makes perfect sense, one nature from the source.

See if you believe scripture that Jesus is truly *the* Son of God, the ***very*** reason he was crucified for, because he called God his very own Father then its common sense that if Jesus is the one and only true Son of God he does infact derive his nature being and substance from and of his Fathers substance alone.

Now if there is a problem with Jesus being the one and only true Son who derives his nature from his Father alone, we need to look at that in scripture. Jesus is the radiance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God. The Father is the un-generated God and the Son is the eternal generated God FROM and OF his Father substance.

Satan will try and confuse the trinity because salvation depends on understand that Jesus is the one and only true Son of God. Why do you think that Jesus said for the sake of the salvation of the jews that no-one had seen the Father at anytime or seen his form and that Moses would accuse them.

The key to understand the Trinity and its purity is understand that Jesus is *TRULY* THE —-SON—– OF GOD.

The Trinity is crystal clear the Son is not the Father, of course he is **FROM** the Fathers substance -BECAUSE- he is the only *true* Son of God by nature and substance, because he is the radiance of the Father, the generated and expressed substance of the father eternal almighty power. the Son testifies of the Fathers eternal awesomeness of being true Father and truly eternally Almighty

The truth is that Jesus, the Word is now – the Son of Man and he is still and always has been – the one and only Son of God. The *one* and *only* begotten God.

Take care t, if there is an issue, then please let me know exactly what the problem is but please pin point it explicitly. I truly with all my heart cant fault that Jesus is the true Son of God, and that the Father is true his true Father by nature and substance. No-one knows the Father except the Son and no one knows the Son except the Father. Satan is not equal with Jesus, – Jesus truly isn't Michael or Gabriel, Jesus is the Son of God, far above anything that could ever enter into the small mind of man. God is awesome, all praise and glory be to him and his name. I cant reject that he is the true Son of God, it doesn't make sense and I would be to scared to reject that truth, please t, make sure you don't follow the spirit of the whore who rejects this truth.

Life and *Love* to you in the name of Jesus, Jehovah the Son, my Lord, please accept him as your true Lord.
Daniel

[terraricca]

Daniel

look at your explanation ,you give me and stand back ;you only give a personal explanation of what should be the most important teaching of truth in scriptures if IT WOULD BE TRUE , but you have not one single verse in the scriptures to back your story up ,

this is what is called MEN'S VIEW ,

AND THIS STILL DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT JOHN 17;11

[Author]

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