Who is this Jesus?

Participant

Daniel

Quote

through him and for him. Otherwise Jesus is the god of ****nothing**** Which is total rubbish.

you comment is pure RUBBISH ,SCRIPTURES SAYS HE IS THE SECOND IN COMMAND ,HE COMES RIGHT AFTER HIS FATHER ,SO ANYTHING AFTER THE SON CREATION IS UNDER HIS COMMAND ,NOW SINCE ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM THAT TELLS YOU THAT HE IS A GOD OVER ALL THINGS CREATED THROUGH HIM ;RIGHT YES BUT HE AS HIS FATHER ABOVE HIM THAT IS THE ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH GOD THE FATHER ,CREATOR OF THE SON AND ALL THINGS THROUGH THE SON ,

SO THE SON CAN NEVER BE MORE THAN THE SON ;THIS IS SCRIPTURAL ;NOT FROM MEN INVENTION ;

November 5, 2013 at 2:27 am#361153

Participant

Daniel

Quote

If the Father wants to express his radiance of glory of Love and forgiveness,

no ,if's please

November 5, 2013 at 9:39 pm#370724

Participant

KATHY

November 7, 2013 at 12:10 am#361355

Participant

T,
can you please stop bearing FALSE witness, I have never said the Son is the Father or the Son is more powerful than the Father. You you say this again I will have no other choice but to classifie you by your actions of lying.

I'm here because I care and Want you to KNOW that Jesus wasn't a Son of God like the Jews who killed him!!

Its YOU that doesnt admit that Jesus is *the* Son of God.
ITS SUPER COMMON SENSE, JESUS IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD.

THE Father is True Father

THE Son is True Son, who dervies [GETS] his nature FROM and OF the FATHER ALONE. >>>SIMPLE COMMON SENSE<<<

This is WHY the jews killed Jesus.

Surely you have understand the difference between a Son of God like Adam and the angels and Gods choosen people and the house of israel and their kings?

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

This is the MOST important thing to UNDERSTAND, that Jesus is the Son of God.

YOU think Jesus isnt the TRUE SON of God because you think HE HAS A Different nature to his Father.
THE DAY YOU ADMIT THAT JESUS IS THE TRUE SON *and* HAS THE SAME NATURE as his TRUE FATHER, then that is THE DAY YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT JESUS is GOD by NATURE [*****FROM**** and ****OF**** his FATHER]

ITS HONESTLY SO SIMPLE. If you lack the common sense to understand this I cant help you, I pray in Jesus name that you understand that JESUS IS TRULY *****THE**** SON of God. GOD FROM GOD.

The Jews understood exactly that Jesus claimed to be “the Son of God” and it was this very reason that the Jews wanted all the more to kill him.

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

This is SCRIPTURE NOT MY WORDS, YOU have the PROBLEM with SCRIPTURE NOT ME.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

As ABOVE they you accuse JESUS of blasphemy because he calls he called God his Father.

Jesus knew that they understand what his claim was being the Son of God so that's why he quoted scripture to call them gods because they are sons of the Most High “If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be set aside– (John 10:35)

John 10:35
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be set aside–

Psalm 82:5-7
5“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, 'You are “gods“; you are all sons of the Most High. '7“Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”

The Sons in scripture are fallen Sons you have made themselfs gods, they understand nothing JUST LIKE the JEWS, this is WHY Jesus quoted this.
There is a unmistakable difference between being a son of God by the being part of the creation of God as a created son creature man of flesh in the image of God.

Are you GOING BACK ON YOUR STATEMENT that JESUS is the God of everything created through HIM?

What made you change your mind?
So again if you have changed your mind WHAT is Jesus the God of??

Can you answer this once and for all?

Life in the Son and his name
Choose Life
Daniel

November 7, 2013 at 12:23 am#361356

Participant

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 07 2013,05:10)

I'm here because I care and Want you to KNOW that Jesus wasn't a Son of God like the Jews who killed him!!

Its YOU that doesnt admit that Jesus is *the* Son of God.
ITS SUPER COMMON SENSE, JESUS IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD.

THE Father is True Father

THE Son is True Son, who dervies [GETS] his nature FROM and OF the FATHER ALONE. >>>SIMPLE COMMON SENSE<<<

This is WHY the jews killed Jesus.

Surely you have understand the difference between a Son of God like Adam and the angels and Gods choosen people and the house of israel and their kings?

John 20:31
But these are writtenthat you may believethat Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing youmay have life in his name.

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peteranswered, “You arethe Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

This is the MOST important thing to UNDERSTAND, that Jesus is the Son of God.

ITS HONESTLY SO SIMPLE. If you lack the common sense to understand this I cant help you, I pray in Jesus name that you understand that JESUS IS TRULY *****THE**** SON of God. GOD FROM GOD.

The Jews understood exactly that Jesus claimed to be “the Son of God” and it was this very reason that the Jews wanted all the more to kill him.

John 5:18
For this reason theytried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

This is SCRIPTURE NOT MY WORDS, YOU have the PROBLEM with SCRIPTURE NOT ME.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own andsent into the world?Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

As ABOVE they you accuse JESUS of blasphemy because he calls he called God his Father.

John 10:35
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be set aside–

Psalm 82:5-7
5“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, 'You are “gods“; you are all sonsof the Most High. '7“Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”

Are you GOING BACK ON YOUR STATEMENT that JESUS is the God of everything created through HIM?

What made you change your mind?
So again if you have changed your mind WHAT is Jesus the God of??

Can you answer this once and for all?

Life in the Son and his name
Choose Life
Daniel

Daniel

Quote

Are you GOING BACK ON YOUR STATEMENT that JESUS is the God of everything created through HIM?

NO,I DO NOT GOING BACK ON WHAT I SAID,”THAT THE SON OF GOD ALMIGHTY HIS ,THE GOD OF THE SON ,BUT THE SON HIS THE MIGHTY ONE OVER ALL THAT HAS BEEN CREATED AFTER HIM (THE SON HIS THE FIRST CREATION OF HIS FATHER AND GOD ) WHY DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES I HAVE GIVE YOU,

November 7, 2013 at 12:34 am#361359

Blocked

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 03 2013,16:43)

………its great to know you dont think Jesus is an arch angel or some other angel.

I didn't say that last part, Daniel.

Jesus is of course an angel of his and our God Jehovah, since he is a spirit messenger of Jehovah – and that's all “angel” means.

November 7, 2013 at 12:49 am#361360

Participant

Daniel

Quote

Its YOU that doesnt admit that Jesus is *the* Son of God.
ITS SUPER COMMON SENSE, JESUS IS THE ONE AND ONLY begotten(the word “true” is not in scriptures or is it ??) SON OF GOD.

THIS I HAVE NEVER DENIED ,AND AGREE WITH YOU 100% SO STOP BEARING FALSE WITNESS THIS WOULD BE A LIE ;ALL MY QUOTES CAN TESTIFY TO THIS ;

NOW GOD = ALMIGHTY OR MIGHTY

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”

Mt 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
Mt 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
Mt 1:23 “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”—which means, “God with us.”

now tell me ;being the only begotten son of God the creator ;is this mean that he is higher than his father or just under

now ,being given SUPREMACY over all things WOULD THIS MEAN HE IS NOT “GREATER THAN,MORE MIGHTIER ,or being a god to those below him ,because God his father had made him the supreme being in power after him ,

MT 26:64 Jesus *said to him, “ You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

AC 2:33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God,

(THE SON) he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

RO 8:34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
2CO 6:7 in the word of truth, in the power of God;

IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME ;BELIEVE THOS SCRIPTURES AND THERE ARE MORE THAT TESTIFY OF THE SON BEING SECOND TO GOD IN POWER ,BUT NEVER ABOVE HIS FATHER ;

SO WE SHOULD HONOR THE SON ,BUT NOT WORSHIP HIM IN THE WAY WE HAVE TO DO IT TO THE FATHER JEHOVAH

November 7, 2013 at 12:51 am#361361

Blocked

Quote

Hi Mike,

Please understand this I dont believe the father was begotton. I feel like we are getting somewhere!!

Yet His Son WAS begotten, right? An Almighty and ever-existing God is not “begotten” at any time, Daniel.

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 03 2013,17:04)

Jesus is God by nature, he is NOT the Father but comes from the fathers nature ALONE, so he is true Son and true God.

Okay, let's discuss that claim. Do you think “god” is a “species”? Like the son of a rhino is a rhino, and the son of a god is a god? Are you thinking that Jesus is the second member of the “species” known as “god”? Because that's what you're making it sound like.

Let me clarify for you: God is spirit. You cannot argue such a thing, since scripture explicitly says so, right? Therefore the son OF a spirit being would naturally also be a spirit being. So yes, Jesus and his God share the same spirit nature. They share that nature with all of God's other spirit sons.

Let me further clarify: “god” is a title, much like “president” or “king”. Would it make sense to you to say the son OF King Jasper is also King Jasper? Of course not. Would you say the son OF President Obama is also President Obama? Of course not. So why would you say the son OF God is also God?

Let me try it this way: Jesus is the son OF the one and only Creator of all things. Does that make Jesus THE one and only Creator of all things – or the son OF that One?

For example: John is the son OF the creator of Microsoft. Does that make John THE creator of Microsoft? Or does it simply mean John is the son OF the one who created Microsoft? Which one?

November 11, 2013 at 12:44 am#361674

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 07 2013,10:34)

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 03 2013,16:43)

………its great to know you dont think Jesus is an arch angel or some other angel.

I didn't say that last part, Daniel.

Jesus is of course an angel of his and our God Jehovah, since he is a spirit messenger of Jehovah – and that's all “angel” means.

Thanks for clarifing Mike,
Scriptures explicitly identifies Jesus as God. even the NWT calls Jesus – THE only begotten God -.

So I have shown you EXPLICIT scripture for the sake of your salvation my friend.

In Moses writings (the first 5 books of the Bible) Jehovah is seen and appeared to Abraham Isaac Jacob and Mose as God ALMIGHTLY. This is what Moses EXPLICITLY TEACHES.

Jesus said to search the old testament because Moses wrote about him and for the sake of YOUR salvation, no one has seen God the Father at any time.

Its very very clear that Jesus is indentifing himself as Jehovah.

Jesus THE true Son of God.
The Father is the true Father.

Jesus like any true Son is equal to their Father by substance and nature.

Jesus wasn't created for ceation, creation was created for him and through him. scripture teaches this.

The father didn't wait to be mature enought to generate his Son, instead the father is light and he is the source of the true light that is his one and only Son.

See even the NWT says that Jesus is THE *****ONLY***** Begotten God.

Notice the world ONLY, even the arch angels who have indeed came to earth cant even in the very very very x infinitely be compared to the one and only true Son of God.

they are spirit Sons because they are created CREATURE Sons.
Mike, I didn't create my Son he came from me.

The angels didn't come from the Fathers substance, they are creatures that have been created.

Jesus came FROM and OF the father substance.
Humans have a spirit also but our spirit isn't from the Fathers substance but instead we have a created spirit.

Are you sayinh that Satan is from and OF the Father spirit? or do you think he was a created spirit creature?

Jesus is not a creature Son he is THE only true Son, this is what he is, children are amazed to hear that God the Father has a true Son that you understand that he is like his Father.

Scripture teaches that the Son is the radiance of Gods glory no angel is the radiance of Gods glory that are just powerful creatures at the most nothing compares to God the Father and God the holy Spirit.

What is the Holy Spirit to you? I'm sure you have seen all the 40 + scriptures that show he is a persona nd not the Fathers or Son person as such. the Holy Spirit has a mind.

Hey I wont be on here for a wee while as I have some important stuff I need to do.

T, the Father has greater authority than the Son, just like Adam with Eve. Of course Jesus humbled himself and become a man so even become lower for our sake but what a sin to try and use this to deny his true nature as the one and only true son of God.

Life in the Son to you both

Daniel

Jesus is NEVER called an angel.

November 11, 2013 at 3:03 am#361692

Participant

Daniel

Quote

Scriptures explicitly identifies Jesus as God. even the NWT calls Jesus – THE only begotten God -.

has “a god ” NOT HAS GOD ;what you try to imply that he his GOD THE FATHER ,WHAT HE HIS NOT

Quote

THE only begotten God -.

THIS IS TRUE BECAUSE JEHOVAH GOD HAS CREATED HIM ,AND SO HIS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON GOD ,BUT NOT THE FATHER ,AND IS TOTALLY INDEPENDANT OF THE FATHER ,BUT LOVES THE FATHER AND SO DOES ALL WHAT THE FATHER ASKS,

Quote

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO USE LIES ON ME WHERE DID i DENY WHAT YOU SAY ;( but what a sin to try and use this to deny his true nature as the one and only true son of God.)

READ MY QUOTES I NEVER DENY WHAT YOU SAY ;THAT IS MORE LIKE YOUR SIN ,NOT MINE

YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE SON HIS GOD JEHOVAH ;WHAT I CHALLENGE TO PROVE IT ,AND YOU FAIL TO DO SO .DO NOT USE LIES TO ACHIEVE YOUR GOALS ,

November 12, 2013 at 12:31 am#361758

Blocked

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 10 2013,17:44)

Scriptures explicitly identifies Jesus as God. even the NWT calls Jesus – THE only begotten God -.

So I have shown you EXPLICIT scripture for the sake of your salvation my friend.

Hi Daniel,

Scriptures many times identify Jesus as a god….. but never as the MOST HIGH god.

In fact, he is clearly distinguished as someone other than the MOST HIGH god when he is called the SON OF the MOST HIGH god in scripture.

Like I said in my last post: The MOST HIGH President in the world is Obama. So Obama can have a son. And that son can even be a president of a bank or country or whatever. And if he was, then the son of Obama would be a president, but he could never be the MOST HIGH President that he is the son OF.

Your claim is that Jesus IS the very MOST HIGH god that he is the Son OF. And your claim cannot possibly be correct. It defies all reason, God-given logic, and many, many scriptures.

November 12, 2013 at 12:35 am#361759

Blocked

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 10 2013,17:44)

Mike, I didn't create my Son he came from me.

Is your son a creation? Of course he is.

Anyone who has ever been “born” is also a creation, Daniel. Can you name an exception to that rule besides Jesus? If not, then why would you change this very constant rule for the case of Jesus only? Especially when there are scriptures that speak of his creation?

November 12, 2013 at 12:37 am#361760

Blocked

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 10 2013,17:44)

Hey I wont be on here for a wee while as I have some important stuff I need to do.

More BBQs to enjoy?

Okay. See ya when you get back.

Until then, I wish nothing but peace, love, and understanding for you and yours.

December 3, 2013 at 11:55 pm#363099

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2013,10:37)

Quote (4Thomas @ Nov. 10 2013,17:44)

Hey I wont be on here for a wee while as I have some important stuff I need to do.

More BBQs to enjoy?

Okay. See ya when you get back.

Until then, I wish nothing but peace, love, and understanding for you and yours.

Thanks Mike, no not for a BBQ this time
I really appreciate your comment and likewise I want nothing more than peace, love, understanding for you and yours.

I can start to talk again but just not as much due to other commitments.

I love defending Jesus nature being (God the Son) from and of his Father, for he is the radiance of the Fathers Substance.

My calling is to talk to Jehovah Witnesses (I'm not saying your one) but as a Child I got to know a lovely family of Jehovah Witnesses who I greatly respect – though I haven't seen them for over 30 years – I think and pray for them.

My half sister was actually looked after/raised by another family of Jehovah Witnesses for a time also. Before I made the choice to get baptised i looked into the Watch tower teaching with a open and honest heart.
To be honest I was hoping it would agree with me because I was very keen back then on a girl in the Jehovah Witness family (Mandy Avery, but I think she is called Mandy Pickering now, she won “stars in your eyes” in New Zealand)

Anyhow as you know – I believe the watchtower have decieved the faithful Jehovah Witnesses people with the wrong Jesus as they teach he is Michael the arch angel. Every time I see a kingdom hall i want to go and talk with the people and open the scriptures and show them my convictions in truth and love. Heaven net is like this experience to me, its like a “Kingdom Hall” instead of Kingdom its Heaven and instead of Hall it's Net – even though most of the people arent Jehovah Witnesses you can see the influences from the watchtower.

Just sharing my convictions and as usual I want nothing more than you to accept Jesus as your God [the only begotton God] and Savior.

Peace and love in Christ
Daniel

December 5, 2013 at 12:08 am#363202

Participant

Hi Mike,
So i'm clear I want to prove with scripture that Jesus should be worshipped and called our God and Savior. Its is only through the Fathers radiance (Hebrews 1:3, glory of his substance, the only begotton God) that we have access to the Father.
See I want everyone to understand what it means for Jesus to be *the* one and only Son and the difference between Jesus and the Arch angels Gabriel, Michael and Satan etc.
See we both are Fathers and provide spiritual fatherhood to our children the best of our knowledge and abilitly but we would never call our selfs *the* Father. We are also trying our best to be good faithful Sons of the Father but we could never call ourselfs *the* Son of God.

The Father is unbegotten, ungenerated, uncaused, unoriginated, he is the source of the whole divinity. Beyond understanding except through his Son.

The Son is begotten, light from light, true God from true God, begotton not made, the expressed substance and radiance of the Fathers begotten glory [the Fathers begotten Word/substance whom through he made the entire universe and heavens and whom he saved the entire World], the one and only true Son by explicit substance and nature.

It is impossible to divide the Substance of the unbegotten Father from the substance of the begotten Son (God). the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. When you see the Son you see the Father. The Son is *the* way the Truth and the Life and noone can gain access to the Father by any other means or ways or beliefts if he has not the Son, he has not the Father.

The Holy Spirit is the unity of the unbegotton God/ the ultimate Source and the begotton God his true Son.

Just as Eve comes from the substance of Adam, Women being the image of man and taken from man, so also the begotton is the image of the unbegotten the source of unapprocable Light.

In the unbegotten and the begotten we have the Holy Spirit who proceeds and testifies, calls, bear witnesses and speaks into our hearts.

Love and Life in the Son and his name.
Daniel

December 6, 2013 at 12:29 am#363252

Participant

Daniel

think ,if God almighty pull out a rope and the first to hang from the rope is his son ,then the son hang a rope down and now the rest of creation and finally men hang of that rope ;

tell me who holds the top position on that rope God right and so as it seems to some that the one that hold there live on the rope may look like the one that they can see the closes to them , but reality is that it is the one that starts the rope in the first place right GOD ALMIGHTY even if we do not see him ,as long that there is a rope ,none hanging o the rope are equal to the one that holds the rope OF LIVE,THAT IS ,

December 6, 2013 at 5:32 am#363266

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2013,10:29)

Daniel

think ,if God almighty pull out a rope and the first to hang from the rope is his son ,then the son hang a rope down and now the rest of creation and finally men hang of that rope ;

Hi T,
The Father is unbegotten, ungenerated, uncaused, unoriginated, he is the source of the whole divinity.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The Father holds the highest place above the Son, just as Adam holds a higher place than Eve, the head of every Women is Man. Women came from Man is OF Man, just as *the* one and only comes from the Father and is OF the Father. Women and Men are equal in nature they are fully human but Eve came from the rib of man. No one can call themself *THE* Son of God, because Jesus alone is the radiance of the Fathers substance. he alone is the only begotton God, there have been heaps of angels who have came to earth recorded in the Bible, including the arch angels, Gabriel, Michael and Satan, but they are created beings and sent as meessages. the Son is begotten and not made.

Jesus is the TRUE Son of God by nature he is *the* one and only Son by nature, because he is the Fathers begotten radiance that testifies of the Fathers Almighty power.

Its common sense that you cant have an Almighty eternal Father and God of nothing, the father is unapprocable light and *the* Son is the begotten unapprocable light that humbled himself from his true nature [the begotten God] to take flesh to reveal the Fathers love and glory. the Father has never came to earth, he sends his Almighty Son who has appeared MANY MANY times as Jehovah Almightly.

Paul and Barnabas confirm they are the nature of men only and even tore their garments when people tried and call them gods.

Acts 14
11And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. 14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 15“Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

They confirm that they are man ***alone*** by nature/substance.
Whats interesting is the word proskuneo is also used for disclpes and Angels Yet the ANGELS REFUSE WORSHIP (Rev 19:10 and 22:8-9). PETER REFUSES WORSHIP (Acts 10:25-26), AS DO PAUL AND BARNABAS (Acts 14:11-15) } Remember on comparison the Angels and the Disciples are hardly worshipped and each time it is tried it is ALWAYS DENIED……

*****Why***** would the perfect teacher never commands anyone NOT to worship him but instead bless people for worshiping him? Especially when Peter, Paul, Barnabas and angels refuse to be worshiped.

So its very clear, everyone REFUSED [PROSKUNEŌ] Worship, Except the Father Son and also the demons, beast and Satan.

Even accepting being called *a* god, is to accept worship according to scripture.

Acts 12:21-23
When the day arrived, Herod put on his royal robes, sat on his throne, and made a speech to them. The people gave him a great ovation, shouting, “It’s the voice of a god, not of a man!” Instantly, an angel of the Lord struck Herod with a sickness, because he accepted the people’s worship instead of giving the glory to God. So he was consumed with worms and died.

Herod by **nature** is man alone and *not* God by substance, Herod was Instantly struck and died because he accepted being called *A* god,

How about Jesus… its honestly truth he accepts being called God because he is God by nature.

Jesus is not just called **a** God he is called the great God and Savior, the only begotten God, Jesus is called our God and our Lord by the disciples who hold him by the feet and then worshiped him.

out of all the occurances of the word Worship PROSKUNEŌ, it is used for Jesus 30% of the time, the other 70% is used for demons, the beast, satan, disclpes, angels and the Father. the disclpes and angels always reject PROSKUNEŌ worship but the Father and Son never do.

The Father ***commands*** the angels to worship Jesus when Jesus humbled himself to take flesh. Ofcourse this was to clarify that even though the one and only Son by substance has taken flesh he is STILL worthy of Worship because he is and always will be the one and only begotton God the Son. the radiance of the glory of God the Father

T, there is no condemnation for you if you belong to the Son, please accept him as your God [the only begotten God]
And please join me *everyone* to proclaim the truth that Jesus is the true Son of God and not an angel or man alone. Let people in heaven net lead the faithful people in the kingdom hall to accept Jesus as their Saviour, who is the truth and who alone gives access to the Father. Lets lead people to Christ our Lord.

Love and Life and in the only Son and in his beautiful name
Daniel

December 6, 2013 at 6:32 am#363269

Participant

Quote (4Thomas @ Dec. 06 2013,10:32)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 06 2013,10:29)

Daniel

think ,if God almighty pull out a rope and the first to hang from the rope is his son ,then the son hang a rope down and now the rest of creation and finally men hang of that rope ;

Hi T,
The Father is unbegotten, ungenerated, uncaused, unoriginated, he is the source of the whole divinity.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus is the TRUE Son of God by nature he is *the* one and only Son by nature, because he is the Fathers begotten radiance that testifies of the Fathers Almighty power.

Paul and Barnabas confirm they are the nature of men only and even tore their garments when people tried and call them gods.

Acts 14
11And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, <a href="http://biblehub.com/acts…….s….b]“Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

*****Why***** would the perfect teacher never commands anyone NOT to worship him but instead bless people for worshiping him? Especially when Peter, Paul, Barnabas and angels refuse to be worshiped.

So its very clear, everyone REFUSED [PROSKUNEŌ] Worship, Except the Father Son and also the demons, beast and Satan.

Even accepting being called *a* god, is to accept worship according to scripture.

Herod by **nature** is man alone and *not* God by substance, Herod was Instantly struck and died because he accepted being called *A* god,

How about Jesus… its honestly truth he accepts being called God because he is God by nature.

Love and Life and in the only Son and in his beautiful name
Daniel

daniel

scriptures says that we cannot render a worship at the highest level to anyone else than God the almighty JEHOVAH FATHER OF CHRIST and of us all,Christ the son was created ,and YES HE IS A POWERFUL AND MIGHTY ONE O
F GOD HIS FATHER AND GOD ,BUT THIS DOES NOT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO GIVE HIM OUR HIGHEST WORSHIP ,WE CAN GIVE HIM OUR HIGHEST HONOR ,JUST AS WE HONOR THE FATHER ,BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS NOT THE SON ,AND THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OF WHICH HE HIS THE SON OF ,

GOD ;MEANS ; ALMIGHTY OR MIGHTY ONE

SO EVEN YOU CALL US ALL GODS THIS WOULD NOT ALLOW US TO BE WORSHIPED LIKE WE WORSHIP GOD JEHOVAH THE FATHER OF ALL,

December 10, 2013 at 12:00 am#363539

Participant

Thanks T,
I love it!
It just keeps getting better and better. What Jesus was quoting from the Old Testament was in reference to idol gods that are not God by nature….

Satan tried to get Jesus as the Son of Man to worship him. Of course Satan was going to try this on, an unbelievable opportunity because the only begotten God [the radiance of the Father] was made flesh.

Jesus said to worship the ***Lord*** your God. Jesus is the Lord our God and accepted being call Lord and God because he is the begotten God and the Lord of Glory, the radiance of the Glory of God. The one and only True Son by nature, light from light, true God from true God.

**** it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'”****
Where is Jesus quoting when he says the following….

Matthew 4:9-10
9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

Jesus is proclaiming that Satan is a foreign God, 1 Samuel 7:3 and Deuteronomy 6:13

Deuteronomy 6:12-17
12then watch yourself, that you do not forget the LORD who brought you from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 13″You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name. 14″You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you. 15for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth. 16“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

So it pretty clear that Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 6:13 when he said “ it is written worship the Lord your God only. This is again inforced in the exact same passage of scripture when Jesus also says it is written, 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, “It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'

The parallels are unmistakable and see also 1 Samuel 7:3 if you still need more proof…
Oh yeah, please note, Jehovah was put to the test [tempted] above Deuteronomy 6:16
Anyone can try and tempt the Father and the Son by saying if you do this for me I will do this for you…many many examples etc.. etc

The Father and Son aren’t actually really TEMPTED as such because they are God by nature. It amazes me when I hear people say that they actually think that Jesus was truly considering the testing/temptation that Satan offered him.

Mat 4:1 ThenG5119 was JesusG2424 led upG321 ofG5259 theG3588 SpiritG4151 intoG1519 theG3588 wildernessG2048 to be temptedG3985 ofG5259 theG3588 devil.G1228

Greek peiraz (Tempted) G3985

It’s the same greek word used as below for tempting **God** but we know that God wasn’t actually tempted

Act_15:10 NowG3568 thereforeG3767 whyG5101 temptG3985 ye God,G2316 to putG2007 a yokeG2218 uponG1909 theG3588 neckG5137 of theG3588 disciples,G3101 whichG3739 neitherG3777 ourG2257 fathersG3962 norG3777 weG2249 were ableG2480 to bear?G941

God the Father [unbegotten] and Son [begotten] haven’t never actually been tempted as such, scripture defines that when we are tempted we are dragged away by our own evil desire and enticed. Someone may try and tempt or entice the Father and Son but they can’t be swayed as they are God by nature.

James 1:13-14
13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

The lexion has many more examples
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G3985

Of course Jesus wasn't considering sinning, he is the only begotten God. Jesus is the only true God to come to earth and he has been seen many *MANY* times as Jehovah the Almighty in the Old Testament. That’s why he said for the sake of our *salvation* that no-one has seen the Father at any time… Jesus in the Old Testament is Jehovah (the only begotten god) who comes to earth to glorify his Father name that he shares with him as below.

Exodus 34
5And Jehovah descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah. 6And Jehovah passed by before him, and proclaimed, Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and truth, 7keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty , visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation. 8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

It wasn't the Father that came to earth and was worshiped explicitly above my Moses, the Father didn't come to earth and glorify his own name the Son came in his Father name and glorified his Father.

Watch Tower Translation
John 1:18 NWT (New World Translation)
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten God who is in the bosom with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Do you realize scripture states that calling someone even *A* God is to render them worship, did you read my last post – the top of this page??

Jesus isn't *A* God, no he is **The** **O-N-L-Y** begotten God, this means that Jesus is the Only God to come to this earth!! Other so-called Gods are just a god of something and only for a given time before they perish.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

T, Scripture—Teaches that Jesus was NOT made – its very explicit and cant be refuted – Nothing was made that **HAS** ***been*** made. Not only did Jesus made ALL things he made everything THAT has been made including Satan, shame he gave him free will….

Anyhow the Son is FROM and OF the true Fathers substance, he is not created he is begotten because he is the radiance of the Glory of the Father read HEBREWS 1:3. the Son is the **begotten** radiance that reveals the Father eternal Almighty *active begotten glory* and Love.

Take care T,
Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

December 10, 2013 at 4:14 am#363564