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Good post Keith!
We know that Jehovah would have us NOT invoke the name of 'another god' or bow down to another 'god' and we also certainly know that Jesus is a theos whose name is invoked and who is bowed down to. Either Jesus is Jehovah also in some manner, or He is another god like Mike and t8 talk about.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2013,17:12) 14And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the two houses of Israel, For a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Please answer:
Who is identified as the stone and rock in Isaiah 8.
Jehovah is the rock in Isaiah. Were there still TWO houses of Israel when Jesus was on earth? Was there still a northern nation called “Israel”, and a southern nation called “Judah”?Kathi, I told you from the outset that there are many “stumbling blocks”. Man made idols are called “stumbling blocks” in scripture too.
Remember that Peter recognizes that the stone Jehovah LAID in Zion was Jesus. Get it? Jesus is the stone that Jehovah LAID in Zion.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) So its back to the drawing board for you guys.
Thankfully you started that “Drawing Board” thread then. Let's see how you start trying to “protect the scriptures from themselves” in that thread.
I'll bite my tongue here, and deal with you over there.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2013,14:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
Good post Keith!
He's laughing at YOUR belief, Kathi…….. not ours. We worship and serve as our God only the one that our Lord Jesus also worships and serves as his own God.John 20:17
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.See? Jesus and I have the same exact one and only God. Jesus himself told me so.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) I believe they are One God and One Spirit as the scriptures claim.
Actually,You believe that the Son, Servant, Messiah, Lamb, Prophet and Priest OF our one and only Most High God actually IS the very God he is all these things OF.
And you have the gall to say “LOL” to us?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2013,08:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
When you laugh, do so while looking in the mirror and take a good hard look at what manner of man you are.To correct your bearing false witness of what we believe, I will assume that you are either incompetent to teach and understand matters of faith that we talk of, or you do this on purpose because you need to attack the character of the person because you cannot attack the teaching itself.
Either way, you should not be a teacher. You will incur judgement for false teaching WJ.
Here is the correction and please pay attention. We don't really want to hear your misconception or lies again.
We serve the Father as God.
We serve Jesus as the son of God.That makes one God and one son. Simple.
Whereas you serve the Father, Son, and Spirit as God.
You serve 3 as God.Take the log out of your eye WJ.
Repent for the end draws near.At some point, repentance will not be available to you as with me. Repent while you can.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2013,08:59) BTW t8, I don't believe that the so-called gods like baal who was worshiped by man were gods at all, but merely idols of men. The definition of polytheism is “The worship of or belief in more than one god.”
But that is what an idol is. Something that is not God but is put in the place of God so it is as God to the worshipper.You call yourself Worshipping Jesus, and yet you argue with Jesus day and night.
It is not us who say that others can legitimately called theos, it is scripture. Jesus was the one who said, “ye are gods”. The Old Testament is the one that says, “Ye are all gods, ye are sons of the Most High God”.
Because we are students we seek to understand what this means. Because you are brainwashed you pass this off as something we made up, when you can clearly read it in the bible. Why don't you try that first before accusing us?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2013,18:28) Because we are students we seek to understand what this means. Because you are brainwashed you pass this off as something we made up, when you can clearly read it in the bible. Why don't you try that first before accusing us?
Amen!Quote The definition of polytheism is “The worship of or belief in more than one god.” Does the bible anywhere condemn “belief in more than one god.”?
Wj, you believe in Jesus, who you would call god
You believe in the father, who you would call god.
Some would say that makes you a polytheist.The bible does condemn the worship of other gods.
Wait! It just occurred to me that worshipping Jesus, worships Jesus, god, and also worships the father, god.
He both BELIEVES in the son (god) and the father (god) and WORSHIPS the son (god) and the father (god)This makes him more of a polytheist than those who only believe. 🙂
Quote (david @ Aug. 15 2013,09:09) Quote The definition of polytheism is “The worship of or belief in more than one god.” Does the bible anywhere condemn “belief in more than one god.”?
Wj, you believe in Jesus, who you would call god
You believe in the father, who you would call god.
Some would say that makes you a polytheist.The bible does condemn the worship of other gods.
David,The bible states their is one true God. Polytheism contradicts that teaching and so it is false. Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Quote (david @ Aug. 15 2013,14:12) Wait! It just occurred to me that worshipping Jesus, worships Jesus, god, and also worships the father, god.
He both BELIEVES in the son (god) and the father (god) and WORSHIPS the son (god) and the father (god)This makes him more of a polytheist than those who only believe. 🙂
Hi David,I thought YOU said no more name-calling? Have you changed your mind?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,07:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2013,17:12) 14And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the two houses of Israel, For a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Please answer:
Who is identified as the stone and rock in Isaiah 8.
Jehovah is the rock in Isaiah. Were there still TWO houses of Israel when Jesus was on earth? Was there still a northern nation called “Israel”, and a southern nation called “Judah”?Kathi, I told you from the outset that there are many “stumbling blocks”. Man made idols are called “stumbling blocks” in scripture too.
Remember that Peter recognizes that the stone Jehovah LAID in Zion was Jesus. Get it? Jesus is the stone that Jehovah LAID in Zion.
Mikeyou are right in this ,but so few can understand it ,this understanding is part of the true understanding of who is God and who is his son ,and how they are one yet two very clear separated beings,
the truth as to be understood , and only the search of the truth of God can do it ,because then the spirit of God kicks in,so to speak
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) I believe they are One God and One Spirit as the scriptures claim.
Actually,You believe that the Son, Servant, Messiah, Lamb, Prophet and Priest OF our one and only Most High God actually IS the very God he is all these things OF.
And you have the gall to say “LOL” to us?
What are you saying Mike?That God is not almighty enough to come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be all those things?
Are not all things possible to him?
I believe Jesus words when he says he and the Father are One!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 16 2013,03:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) I believe they are One God and One Spirit as the scriptures claim.
Actually,You believe that the Son, Servant, Messiah, Lamb, Prophet and Priest OF our one and only Most High God actually IS the very God he is all these things OF.
And you have the gall to say “LOL” to us?
What are you saying Mike?That God is not almighty enough to come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be all those things?
Are not all things possible to him?
WJ
Hi WJ:Of course, God is able to do this, and as you say there is nothing to hard for Him to do, but He said that He sent His “Only Begotten Son”. The scriptures state that His Son came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but it does not state that God Himself came in the likeness of sinful flesh, does it?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:48) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2013,14:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
Good post Keith!
He's laughing at YOUR belief, Kathi…….. not ours. We worship and serve as our God only the one that our Lord Jesus also worships and serves as his own God.John 20:17
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.See? Jesus and I have the same exact one and only God. Jesus himself told me so.
No Mike,
I believe he is laughing at your belief. He and I worship the Father and Son and Spirit as together our God just like the disciples and the angels.Why would you not worship who the holy angels of the LORD worship? It makes no sense.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2013,19:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2013,08:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
When you laugh, do so while looking in the mirror and take a good hard look at what manner of man you are.To correct your bearing false witness of what we believe, I will assume that you are either incompetent to teach and understand matters of faith that we talk of, or you do this on purpose because you need to attack the character of the person because you cannot attack the teaching itself.
Either way, you should not be a teacher. You will incur judgement for false teaching WJ.
Here is the correction and please pay attention. We don't really want to hear your misconception or lies again.
We serve the Father as God.
We serve Jesus as the son of God.That makes one God and one son. Simple.
Whereas you serve the Father, Son, and Spirit as God.
You serve 3 as God.Take the log out of your eye WJ.
Repent for the end draws near.At some point, repentance will not be available to you as with me. Repent while you can.
I believe it is what you deny about Jesus that is causing you to stumble over Him, our God and Savior-Jesus Christ, the stone of your stumbling and rock of your offense. Do you realize that you fulfill that prophecy??He is Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8. You should read it well and see who the NT reveals the Jehovah of hosts is. 1 Peter 2-3 would be a good place for that.
Just trying to help you.
Quote (david @ Aug. 14 2013,22:09) Quote The definition of polytheism is “The worship of or belief in more than one god.” Does the bible anywhere condemn “belief in more than one god.”?
Wj, you believe in Jesus, who you would call god
You believe in the father, who you would call god.
Some would say that makes you a polytheist.The bible does condemn the worship of other gods.
Jehovah rebukes the invoking and bowing down to other gods. The disciples do all in the name of Jesus…that is 'invoking' a god. All will bow down to Jesus…that is bowing down to a god.Keith and I believe that Jesus and the Father and Spirit are one in the God Jehovah. Jesus is not a god other than Jehovah. If He were, then bowing down to Him and invoking His name would be a violation of what Jehovah has declared.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2013,17:12) 14And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the two houses of Israel, For a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Please answer:
Who is identified as the stone and rock in Isaiah 8.
Jehovah is the rock in Isaiah. Were there still TWO houses of Israel when Jesus was on earth? Was there still a northern nation called “Israel”, and a southern nation called “Judah”?Kathi, I told you from the outset that there are many “stumbling blocks”. Man made idols are called “stumbling blocks” in scripture too.
Remember that Peter recognizes that the stone Jehovah LAID in Zion was Jesus. Get it? Jesus is the stone that Jehovah LAID in Zion.
Mike,
you asked:Quote Were there still TWO houses of Israel when Jesus was on earth? Was there still a northern nation called “Israel”, and a southern nation called “Judah”? Isaiah 8
for both Israel and Judah he will bea stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
a trap and a snare.
15Many of them will stumble;
they will fall and be broken,
they will be snared and captured.”
The Israelites and the Jews and people of Jerusalem certainly existed during Jesus' day on the earth.
Quote Matt 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Quote Heb 8:7For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. 8But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
9“It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord.
10“For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people.
Quote Kathi, I told you from the outset that there are many “stumbling blocks”. Man made idols are called “stumbling blocks” in scripture too. The particular Stone that Peter identifies as Jesus in 1 Peter 2 and 3 just happens to be the Stone identified as 'Jehovah of hosts' from Isaiah 8.
Quote Remember that Peter recognizes that the stone Jehovah LAID in Zion was Jesus. Get it? Jesus is the stone that Jehovah LAID in Zion. Isaiah 8 has Jehovah saying that 'Jehovah of hosts' is the Stone and Peter who calls Jesus 'Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ' identifies that 'Jehovah of hosts' as Jesus Christ. The same one that will be called 'Jehovah our Righteousness.'
It is all right there…Peter's own words as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Believe it or deny Him this identity. You are out of excuses!
Get it?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2013,19:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2013,08:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
When you laugh, do so while looking in the mirror and take a good hard look at what manner of man you are.
No t8 these are your words are they not?Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god. So once again, if you believe that the Father is god and Jesus is a god and you serve and bow down to them both then anyone can see that you have 2 gods.
Sorry you don't like the truth when it hits you in the face.
The rest of your post is just ad hominem.
WJ
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