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Kerwin
Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussingQuote (kerwin @ June 12 2013,09:32) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2013,05:39) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,13:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,07:30) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,05:10) When God created the world there was no death in it except for shed cells and parts of plants. The only way death could enter the world is by mankind eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and subjecting his body, as well as the rest of creation to corruption.
The first sentence is just an empty claim from you – one that you couldn't possibly support.As for the latter sentence, how did Adam's sin enter the animals' bloodstream, causing them to lose their immortality as well?
Mike,a curse for it is written:
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
KerwinRo 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Ro 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Ro 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Ro 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Ro 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,does animals have to accept the gospel
do we have to preach to them if your answer is both then Paul does not talk about them but the entire world of men ;believers and unbelievers ,
now if you want teach me HOW CAN AN ANIMAL BE FRUSTRATED BY THE WAY THAT GOD AS PLAN HIS REDEMPTION
AND IN WHAT WAY WOULD THE WILL OF GOD INFLUENCE THEM BY BECOMING CONSCIOUS ABOUT IT
T,Adam and his kingdom were cursed for his sin. Adam and his kingdom will be delivered by his act of righteousness.
KAdam 's kingdom
? never heard this one before were is that scripture Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:58) Quote (kerwin @ June 12 2013,09:32) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2013,05:39) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,13:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,07:30) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,05:10) When God created the world there was no death in it except for shed cells and parts of plants. The only way death could enter the world is by mankind eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and subjecting his body, as well as the rest of creation to corruption.
The first sentence is just an empty claim from you – one that you couldn't possibly support.As for the latter sentence, how did Adam's sin enter the animals' bloodstream, causing them to lose their immortality as well?
Mike,a curse for it is written:
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
KerwinRo 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Ro 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Ro 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Ro 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Ro 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,does animals have to accept the gospel
do we have to preach to them if your answer is both then Paul does not talk about them but the entire world of men ;believers and unbelievers ,
now if you want teach me HOW CAN AN ANIMAL BE FRUSTRATED BY THE WAY THAT GOD AS PLAN HIS REDEMPTION
AND IN WHAT WAY WOULD THE WILL OF GOD INFLUENCE THEM BY BECOMING CONSCIOUS ABOUT IT
T,Adam and his kingdom were cursed for his sin. Adam and his kingdom will be delivered by his act of righteousness.
KAdam 's kingdom
? never heard this one before were is that scripture
T,Genesis 1:28-30
King James Version (KJV)28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.Hebrews 2:5
King James Version (KJV)5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:53) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:58) Quote (kerwin @ June 12 2013,09:32) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2013,05:39) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,13:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,07:30) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,05:10) When God created the world there was no death in it except for shed cells and parts of plants. The only way death could enter the world is by mankind eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and subjecting his body, as well as the rest of creation to corruption.
The first sentence is just an empty claim from you – one that you couldn't possibly support.As for the latter sentence, how did Adam's sin enter the animals' bloodstream, causing them to lose their immortality as well?
Mike,a curse for it is written:
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
KerwinRo 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Ro 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Ro 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Ro 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Ro 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,does animals have to accept the gospel
do we have to preach to them if your answer is both then Paul does not talk about them but the entire world of men ;believers and unbelievers ,
now if you want teach me HOW CAN AN ANIMAL BE FRUSTRATED BY THE WAY THAT GOD AS PLAN HIS REDEMPTION
AND IN WHAT WAY WOULD THE WILL OF GOD INFLUENCE THEM BY BECOMING CONSCIOUS ABOUT IT
T,Adam and his kingdom were cursed for his sin. Adam and his kingdom will be delivered by his act of righteousness.
KAdam 's kingdom
? never heard this one before were is that scripture
T,Genesis 1:28-30
King James Version (KJV)28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.Hebrews 2:5
King James Version (KJV)5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Kaccording to the scriptures they are both running that kingdom but so Adam was made a KING then according to you and EVE A QUEEN
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
you forgot this verse that pointing to Jesus Christ the WORD OF GOD
Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,08:21) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,01:36) That clearly means there was no death before it entered through Adam.
Therefore, the death of Abel was the result of Adam eating the fruit?Kerwin, dying from natural causes is what entered the world through Adam's sin. We might have been able to live indefinitely, but Adam sealed the deal for us.
Mike,Scripture states death entered through Adam. You seem to be claiming that is not all deaths. Do you have any evidence?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,08:21) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,01:36) That clearly means there was no death before it entered through Adam.
Therefore, the death of Abel was the result of Adam eating the fruit?Kerwin, dying from natural causes is what entered the world through Adam's sin. We might have been able to live indefinitely, but Adam sealed the deal for us.
Mike,Able died because sin is in the world and sin is in the world because of Adam's sin.
Without the knowledge of good and evil Cain would not have murdered Able.
Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,07:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
T,That is not in the context though those you speak of will also rejoice. Here is another one.
Psalm 19:1-6
King James Version (KJV)1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,11:37) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,07:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
T,That is not in the context though those you speak of will also rejoice. Here is another one.
Psalm 19:1-6
King James Version (KJV)1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KerwinPr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole worldPr 8:32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pr 8:33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Pr 8:34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
this is the way of God ;look for it ,find it quickly and so be saved .
Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,16:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,11:37) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,07:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
T,That is not in the context though those you speak of will also rejoice. Here is another one.
Psalm 19:1-6
King James Version (KJV)1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KerwinPr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole worldPr 8:32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pr 8:33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Pr 8:34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
this is the way of God ;look for it ,find it quickly and so be saved .
T,Wisdom is given the attributes of a person in those verses of Proverbs just as creation is later.
Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,23:27) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,16:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,11:37) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,07:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
T,That is not in the context though those you speak of will also rejoice. Here is another one.
Psalm 19:1-6
King James Version (KJV)1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KerwinPr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole worldPr 8:32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pr 8:33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Pr 8:34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
this is the way of God ;look for it ,find it quickly and so be saved .
T,Wisdom is given the attributes of a person in those verses of Proverbs just as creation is later.
Kerwinyou do not have wisdom ,and so you cannot find what gives life ,according to the ;
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me (is it wisdom??) finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,21:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,08:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,18:22) T, The last I knew animals were part of the creation.
So are rocks and asteroids. Do you suppose Paul intended for us to think rocks and asteroids have been groaning, waiting in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed?I also assume, like Pierre, that Paul is talking about human beings in that teaching.
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”Are animals also included in these verses, Kerwin?
Mike,They testify of God.
Are animals included in the “every creature” that Jesus told us to preach to? YES or NO?Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,21:42) Mike, There was no concern of mankind eating the fruit of the tree of life before he ate the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was fully available to be eaten and they may have eaten it for all we know.
Kerwin,I'm done with this nonsense. There would be no reason whatsoever to even have a tree of life in the Garden of Eden if man was originally created immortal.
Believe what you want.
Oh, and read this:
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.There is no darkness IN GOD, Kerwin. So if there IS darkness in parts of God's creations, then it is obvious that God's creations do NOT exist within God.
That is the end of that silly discussion as well.
Quote (4Thomas @ June 12 2013,00:42) Mike we dont create humans, scripture refutes this clearly and many times.
Agreed. Men don't “create” humans, but God, alone and by Himself, creates them THROUGH other men and women. Do you agree?Quote (4Thomas @ June 12 2013,00:42) Origen, -died about 250 C.E Its very clear they believe that “the Word” was God, never once do they say the word was **a** God in John 1, no they teach he is God and is one with the Father.
Not so. These are Origen's words, from a writing he did about John 1:1…………They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked.
You can read the rest of it on page 49 of the “ISM Scale” tread. Last post on the page. He starts by saying John knew the Greek language very well, and there was a reason John used the definite article “the” before ONE of the gods mentioned, but not the other. Ie: One is called “THE god” by John, and the other is called only “god” – without the article.
But this discussion isn't about what the early church fathers believed or didn't believe. THEY are not scriptures, right? I only posted that quote from Tertullian, who I know was a Trinitarian, because the common sense logic of those words cannot be denied.
Now, will you address THAT? Can you deny the common sense logic of the words I quoted? Isn't it simply common sense that the one who actually creates is someone other than the one the thing was created THROUGH?
Quote (4Thomas @ June 12 2013,00:42) Lets stick with scripture and please start giving me the scriptures that teach Jesus was an arch angel.
Daniel, we are off the “angel” thing right now. Your own words have already admitted that an angel is a “spirit son of God”, and Jesus IS a “spirit son of God”.We can come back and discuss it in more detail later, if you want.
Right now, the ONLY thing I'm interested in knowing is whether or not you agree Jesus has ALWAYS been the Son of God from the moment he existed. Do you agree that Jesus has ALWAYS BEEN the Son of God?
Or do you believe Jesus WAS, AT ONE TIME, something else, and then BECAME the Son of God?
Which one, please?
After I get a clear and direct answer to that question I've been asking and asking, I'll show you a bunch of scriptures that make it clear Jesus is NOT “the Creator”. Deal?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2013,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,21:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,08:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,18:22) T, The last I knew animals were part of the creation.
So are rocks and asteroids. Do you suppose Paul intended for us to think rocks and asteroids have been groaning, waiting in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed?I also assume, like Pierre, that Paul is talking about human beings in that teaching.
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”Are animals also included in these verses, Kerwin?
Mike,They testify of God.
Are animals included in the “every creature” that Jesus told us to preach to? YES or NO?
Mike,Proclaim the gospel to every creature that has ears to hear. Animals, children, and some adults do not have the ability to understand it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2013,07:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,21:42) Mike, There was no concern of mankind eating the fruit of the tree of life before he ate the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was fully available to be eaten and they may have eaten it for all we know.
Kerwin,I'm done with this nonsense. There would be no reason whatsoever to even have a tree of life in the Garden of Eden if man was originally created immortal.
Believe what you want.
Oh, and read this:
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.There is no darkness IN GOD, Kerwin. So if there IS darkness in parts of God's creations, then it is obvious that God's creations do NOT exist within God.
That is the end of that silly discussion as well.
Mike,What is nonsense is to sit there claiming the death occurred in Eden without any Scriptural support. To reject the idea that God planned for man to become like angels without the hardship that was incurred by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil at a time he told them not to. To invent an idea that Adam could have eaten of the tree of life at any time and become immortal but instead chose not to. These things are nonsense.
The spirit of corruption is not God's Spirit and he does not dwell in anything through it but never the less his Spirit strives against the flesh of those that live by it or they would die immediately.
Quote (terraricca @ June 14 2013,05:49) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,23:27) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,16:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,11:37) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,07:51) Quote (kerwin @ June 13 2013,06:47) Quote (terraricca @ June 13 2013,03:56) Kerwin Quote 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. why do you quote this verse
to what we discussing
T,You asked how animals can be frustrated by bondage and I pointed out how the heavens, mountains, and the like can rejoice over freedom.
Kerwinyour lack of scriptures understanding is so great that I will try to help you ;
first that verse is talking in an ALLEGORY WAY
they mountains are not real mountains but THE POWERFUL LIKE KINGS , people ,THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH ARE SAID FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE ,
the FOREST ARE NOT A REAL FOREST THOSE ARE REPRESENTING THE WEALTHY ONES ,
THE TREES ARE A REPRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS ,
EZE 6
T,That is not in the context though those you speak of will also rejoice. Here is another one.
Psalm 19:1-6
King James Version (KJV)1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KerwinPr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole worldPr 8:32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pr 8:33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Pr 8:34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”Jn 3:11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
this is the way of God ;look for it ,find it quickly and so be saved .
T,Wisdom is given the attributes of a person in those verses of Proverbs just as creation is later.
Kerwinyou do not have wisdom ,and so you cannot find what gives life ,according to the ;
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me (is it wisdom??) finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”
T,You are just providing more evidence to support my conclusions that all creation means all creation and not just those that have ears to hear in it.
All those who persevere in their belief are sons of God and all of God's creation waits for them to be revealed.
Quote (kerwin @ June 14 2013,10:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2013,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2013,21:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,08:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,18:22) T, The last I knew animals were part of the creation.
So are rocks and asteroids. Do you suppose Paul intended for us to think rocks and asteroids have been groaning, waiting in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed?I also assume, like Pierre, that Paul is talking about human beings in that teaching.
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”Are animals also included in these verses, Kerwin?
Mike,They testify of God.
Are animals included in the “every creature” that Jesus told us to preach to? YES or NO?
Mike,Proclaim the gospel to every creature that has ears to hear. Animals, children, and some adults do not have the ability to understand it.
KERWINQuote Proclaim the gospel to every creature that has ears to hear. Animals, children, and some adults do not have the ability to understand it. 
were is it say this in scriptures 
I wander if the whales and the grisly bear ,are a part of you teachings What do you say, Kerwin? Was the gospel preached to angels? How about the four creatures before the throne of Jehovah? Was it preached to cockroaches? Whales? Venomous snakes?
Or do you think it is more likely that sometimes the words “all creatures” refers to only human beings – depending on context?
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