Who is this Jesus?

[peace2all]

only by god's means do miracles and creation occur. only by him they happen. everthing is controlled by his will, that is what matters. all else have been vessels used to teach or convey a message.

god has been trying to say all along, worship him, do his will that is what matters. jesus came to convey that and set us free from the sin of adam to make things right again.

if you worship god jehovah only and have that faith in what jesus taught and preached and continue to spread that to others thats all that he wants, thats the final message for use all.

if it is from the heart and is your guiding through life and not wealth or material things your actions in life will be the truth that yuo are to be doing that shows one to be worshiping in spirit.

so little differences that do not affect that outcome of that i don't think will cast you out of god's grace.

by one believing that jesus is somehow part of god because of him being he copy of the invisible god an or the same esence of him but only worships the father but has love and faith in his son then that doesn't seem to really change much only to those that care to argue or think they are more versed or rightous than another.

jesus said to wroship only his father so we must not worship the son as only the father should.

[chosenone]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,19:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,13:25) hi EDj could you be so nice to me spell it out with the verses in question word by word and then i can follow your reasoning. Hi Terraricca, Yes I can, and here it is verse by verse. The verses we are talking about are Colossians 1:12-20… Colossians 1:12-20 Giving thanks unto “the Father”, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And “He”(the Father) is “the head” of “the body”(Jesus), the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things “He”(the father) might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fullness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus') cross, by him(the Father) to reconcile all things unto himself(the Father); by him(the Father), I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. All this is talking about “the Subject” of “GOD The Father” and “the object” “Jesus”, starting back in verse 12! In verse 12, “the subject” is the Father, see how I have identified “the Father”. In verse 13,  Who(the father) hath delivered us, “his dear Son” is the object(Jesus). In verse 14, we have redemption through Jesus’ blood; “his blood”. In verse 15, who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(the Father), and Jesus is also the firstborn from the dead. In verse 16, For by him(the invisible God; the Father, “The Creator”) were all things created. all things were created by him(the Father), and for him(the Father): In verse 17, and He(the Father) is before all things, and by Him(the Father) all things consist. All things consist, because “the Father” IS “The Creator”! Now verse 18, matches perfectly with 1 Cor.11:3, I will put them next to each other for you to SEE why this is so important… 18 And he(the Father) is the head of “the body”(“the body of Jesus”), the church(is Man and Woman). 1 Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ(the body) is God(the Father) . The end of verse 18… that in all things He(the Father) might have the preeminence. Now verse 19, For it pleased the Father that in “Jesus” should all the fullness dwell; (Col.2:9) Verse 20 And, having made peace through the blood of Jesus' cross, by him(the Father) to reconcile all things unto himself(the invisible God; the Father, “The Creator”); by him(the father), I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Looking at these verses this way, there is GREAT CONSISTENCY. Looking at Col.1:16 as you suggest, which the JW’s also do, then you are forced to make things up to make everything else fit. The JW’s say ‘Jehovah God is the Architect and Jesus is Creations Carpenter’; which is NOT Biblical? If you make up unbiblical stories, saying Jesus did (falsely) the creating, then what do you do with this verse… Jer.10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Does that mean that Jehovah God will be done away with, because they(JW's and Trinitarians) say Jesus did the creating? Can you NOT see how faulty this type of logic is? Can you now see that Col.1:16 and 1:17 is with certainty talking about “GOD The Father”=117! I hope you seeing these verses in the light of true “Bible Truth”=117 will help to remove the religious confusion being propagated. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J.
I have to disagree that verses 16 & 17 are talking about God the Father. I have included a commentary from the Concordand Publishing Concern regarding this scripture. See if you agree…

15 God is an invisible Spirit (John 4:24; 1Ti.6:16). The Son of God is the visible, tangible embodiment of Deity. Only in Him can we see God. All other images are condemned because they are false and dishonor God (Deut.5:8). All creation was in Him, as the tree and its fruits are found in the seed. In Him God created all else, for the whole universe was created in Him. This includes the celestial as well as the terrestrial spheres and every form of spiritual power and dignity. These exist through Him and for Him and He makes all a unit for the accomplishment of God's purpose.

18 As God's Complement, His supremacy becomes pre-eminent in reconciliation as well as creation. Their relation may be shown as follows:

The
Image
Of
God
Firstborn of all Creation:
The Universe
Celestial, Terrestrial
Created in Him

The
Complement
Of
God
Firstborn from the Dead:
The Universe
Celestial, Terrestrial
Reconciled through Him

The two paramount points in universal history are the creation and the resurrection of the Son of God. Through His death and vivification He will yet more than restore the lost creation to the Father. The cross, which speaks of His estrangement from God, is the basis on which reconciliation is built. The benefits it brings are not confined to earth or mankind, but include the celestial realms as well.

God Bless.

[Ed J]

Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 26 2009,11:26)

Ed J.   I have to disagree that verses 16 & 17 are talking about God the Father.  I have included a commentary from the Concordand Publishing Concern regarding this scripture.  See if you agree… God Bless.

Hi ChosenOne,

Is your view of God “Trinitarian”?

What exactly is it you want me to agree with?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[chosenone]

Hi Ed J.
No, I do not believe in the “trinity”, I believe scripture plainly says that God is One. 1Cor.8:6 nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him.
I believe we were discussung the meaning of Col.1:16-17, I think we will just have to agree to disagree, not much use beating a dead horse continuing to debate this scripture,

God Bless, Jerry.

[Ed J]

Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 26 2009,16:51)

Hi Ed J.   No, I do not believe in the “trinity”, I believe scripture plainly says that God is One.  1Cor.8:6 nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him.   I believe we were discussung the meaning of Col.1:16-17, I think we will just have to agree to disagree, not much use beating a dead horse continuing to debate this scripture, God Bless, Jerry.

Hi ChosenOne,

We can explore your view without any hostility, can't we?
I believe if both of our goals are for “Truth”, then why can't we agree?

If you believe Jesus did the creating, doesn't that make him “The Creator” and also “God”?

And if your view makes Jesus the creator, then what do you do with this verse?

Jer.10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

If you don't believe in 'a trinity', then please explain these perceived discrepancies, in your view of God?

God bless
Ed J

My view is harmonious with Jer.10:11, but yours needs further explaining?
I also have more scriptures for you to explain, after this one.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (ashermoshehthreepointonefour @ Dec. 25 2009,11:47)

Hello, based on extensive research, the Trinity concept did not exist until 300 years after Yeshua and the Apostles had passed on. The only existent concept of a triune element pertaining to G-d was the Emanative Attributes of G-d known as the Sefirot, which are divided into 3 columns; Father, Son, Mother… these are divided in such a way to show the personifications that G-d assumes within this world. But according to original doctrine, G-d is absolutely singular containing no plurality whatsoever. Any element of plurality exists only within creation. Therefore the very idea of a trinity automatically is refuted by its own definition.

Totally agree and welcome!

[GeneBalthrop]

asherm………..Welcome to the site, good post i also agree with it…….looking forward for more posts from you.

peace and love to you and yours…………gene

[chosenone]

Hi Ed J.
In the forum of 'Truth and Tradition', the “Trinity” thread has almost 13,000 postings of opinions regarding the trinity, I think any opinions on the “Trinity” should really stay in this thread. In this thread I doubt anyone has changed thier opinion as a result of this ongoing debate, so I really don't think it's proper to debate this further, as I've already offered my opinion in my last answer.

God Bless, Jerry.

[peace2all]

this thread is who is jesus – the talking of trinity fits within tht border, lots of ideas and topics regarding jesus will.

[chosenone]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 28 2009,12:23)

this thread is who is jesus – the talking of trinity fits within tht border, lots of ideas and topics regarding jesus will.

Hi peace2all.
I agree your statement may be correct, but then lets discuss the other aspects of Jesus, as I'm sure the “Trinity” issue is debated ad-infinitum in its own thread.

Blessings.

[peace2all]

whats aspects are there? he does his fahters will, does those things only his father can by means of god's spirit. was born on earth by god's spirit and was given god's spirit/ taught and preached god's will because he had god's spirit thus letting him know and mimic what god is and can perform. all that god does and know is what he did due to god giving his spirit and was the visible example of the invisible god.

was a visible copy of god. was given god's spirit to do what god does and was born out of god's spirit making him pure and rightous and perfect as god. he was everything god is but in man form to teach us anew with a new covenant.

[chosenone]

Hi pease2all.
Some other aspects:

Rev.3:14 …14 “And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Laodicea write: 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:

1Cor.15:22 …22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.

Ro.15:8 …8 For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises

Matt.15:24 …24 Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Ro.8:17 … (we will be) yet joint enjoyers of Christ's allotment, if so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also.

Heb.2:10 …10 For it became Him, because of Whom all is, and through Whom all is, in leading many sons into glory, to perfect the Inaugurator of their salvation through sufferings.

Blessings.

[peace2all]

Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 28 2009,16:09)

Hi pease2all.   Some other aspects:    Rev.3:14   …14 “And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Laodicea write: 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:   1Cor.15:22   …22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.   Ro.15:8  …8 For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises   Matt.15:24   …24 Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”   Ro.8:17   … (we will be) yet joint enjoyers of Christ's allotment, if so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also.   Heb.2:10   …10 For it became Him, because of Whom all is, and through Whom all is, in leading many sons into glory, to perfect the Inaugurator of their salvation through sufferings. Blessings.

that all branches off of the one aspect of god's own spirit, what god is and uses to do his will, his works. he used that the spirit of him (god's spirit) to make a seed that grew in human form and then gave his spirit (himself)to do what god himself only can inside jesus. its all from god.

the holt spirit is the thing god is , its his word,his will,his attributes his means of creating, its part of himself. that is the same way jesus is , jesus is from that spirit also.

its all from god, he is the almighty without him, nothing could have been, they are all of him.

not so much 3 sperate god's in one but one god using 2 other extensions of himself.

to god he is the only one to be worshiped, not his extension, the son of man or son of god or god the son or whatever you illistration you choose best fits you.

if gos so chose to use them as himself t odo what he wills but oly wants himself to be worshiped as the father figure only then that is waht will be. dosn't matter of have to be that each has to be a totally complete sepretate entitiy for it to se so.

[terraricca]

Group: Members
Posts: 868
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Dec. 27 2009,18:02

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hi all
i am a fisher man ,so i have a fisherman question, (1)why no man can see God and live,? (2) why was it that at the mountain in the dessert wen God approach the Montaigne it was burning and noisy,? (3)we all agree that God create all things but tell me what did he created first?, (4)we all have learn and most of us trough pictures the vastness of the universe,could you tell me on witch rock God as is coffee,or how big or how small you think God is?
(5)you will tell me he is a spirit ,not physical right,so what is a spirit?do spirit have thrones to sit on,if they do ,they should have something to sit whit like a rear end.?(6)we know that the spirit is also thoughts what also can be translated into will,now what would happen if God would have created us without a body,we be still to his image is it ,yes God is spirit,but we would not be able to do anything beside thinking of a many things to do .is it not so ?

(7)i believe God created The word who became Christ in time what God calls his only begotten son the first of all creation ,the means of the ability to performing what he has make his intention to do,that was to create the universe and us and everything in it.

this is my deepest believe and understanding of the scriptures.

[terraricca]

Group: Members
Posts: 872
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Dec. 29 2009,04:39

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Group: Members
Posts: 868
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Dec. 27 2009,18:02

——————————————————————————–
hi all
i am a fisher man ,so i have a fisherman question, (1)why no man can see God and live,? (2) why was it that at the mountain in the dessert wen God approach the Montaigne it was burning and noisy,? (3)we all agree that God create all things but tell me what did he created first?, (4)we all have learn and most of us trough pictures the vastness of the universe,could you tell me on witch rock God as is coffee,or how big or how small you think God is?
(5)you will tell me he is a spirit ,not physical right,so what is a spirit?do spirit have thrones to sit on,if they do ,they should have something to sit whit like a rear end.?(6)we know that the spirit is also thoughts what also can be translated into will,now what would happen if God would have created us without a body,we be still to his image is it ,yes God is spirit,but we would not be able to do anything beside thinking of a many things to do .is it not so ?

(7)i believe God created The word who became Christ in time what God calls his only begotten son the first of all creation ,the means of the ability to performing what he has make his intention to do,that was to create the universe and us and everything in it.

this is my deepest believe and understanding of the scriptures.

[peace2all]

i havent seen a scripture that says jesus or the word or holy spirit ever being created. but were there when he was, so then it leads one to believe that tehy are part of himself and extension. all these illistartions of son and father are t oshow humans the relationship or way they are to be viewed. thus making his point to worship only the father as THE GOD and not any other means or vessels of himself being used.

[terraricca]

hi choseone
try this one;Pr 8:1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
Pr 8:2 On the heights along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
Pr 8:3 beside the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:
Pr 8:4 “To you, O men, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
Pr 8:5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, gain understanding.
Pr 8:6 Listen, for I have worthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
Pr 8:7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
Pr 8:8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
Pr 8:9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are faultless to those who have knowledge.
Pr 8:10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
Pr 8:11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Pr 8:12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
Pr 8:13 To fear the LORD is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
Pr 8:14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have understanding and power.
Pr 8:15 By me kings reign
and rulers make laws that are just;
Pr 8:16 by me princes govern,
and all nobles who rule on earth.
Pr 8:17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
Pr 8:18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
Pr 8:19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
Pr 8:20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
Pr 8:21 bestowing wealth on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Pr 8:32 “Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pr 8:33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Pr 8:34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
Pr 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
Pr 8:36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death

just think the intire gospel is in here,almost everyting Christ has teach is here

[NickHassan]

Hi t,
Should we attempt try to define God according to weak human measures?
Why do you place such imprtance on the physical and the visible?
Genesis is surely a trivial moment in the eternity of God

[terraricca]

hi nick
i add to say this for those who are discusing God s whos and do's and whens and whats etc.
they forget to answer the basic questions,and onless they can there speculation are meaningless,
same the start of the WORD or Christ .
we are grains of sand and we take the glory of God away because we try to decide what he his ,this we may never know at the least most of us.
as a pot we try to recreate the potter but all center around us ,this is like looking football field for a grain of sand.so let try to look in the univers for him not in us.(exept for his spirituality and spirit)

[GeneBalthrop]

t……….Here is something interesting, notice, wisdom is (NOT) the LORD or Yhwh, Wisdom is presented as a seperate thing Used by the LORD, Wisdom is one of the (SEVEN) Spirit's (INTELLECTS) Which compose ONE GOD, there are six others also which are used by ONE LORD. The Lord is in full control of GOD (seven Spirits), THAT may explain why it says the LORD our GOD . It seams that GOD is representation of the LORDS or Yhwh's POWERS. So Jeff Benner seem to be correct in Pronouncing the word Elohim as POWERS. And when the LORD or Yhwh said let us make man in our image. He (Yhwh) was speaking to His SEVEN POWERS which compose (ONE GOD). You presentation of the attribute wisdom brings this out more clearer to me. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………gene

[Author]

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