Who is the creator of all things?

Blocked

But who actually created the man after the “Let us”? There was only one subject who then created that man. It does not say, “Then Gods created man in their image”, right?

And I believe we've already discussed the plural of majesty, right? Unless you have a translation that renders one of those plural “makers” or “creators” as “Makers” or “Creators”.

(But thanks for pointing out more cases where the plural of majesty was used in scripture. )

December 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm#267618

Participant

Mike,
It says 'let Us make' and that indicates more than one person. The unity created. God is a singular person in some contexts and a unity of more than one person in other contexts. The unity performs a singular action, i.e. more than one person performs a singular action which could easily be the case in this verse. Remember the two sticks that are one stick? In one way the stick represents one group and in another way the one stick represents more than one group. The principal of unity is throughout the Bible. For you to insist on a plural majesty tells us that you are not interested in really wanting to search other viable options that are clearly taught in scriptures. The idea of unity is evident in the church being one body, yet many members.

Example: the boy scouts said “Let us make a campfire” and the boy scouts made the campfire.

Kathi

December 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm#267619

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2011,10:27)

Example: the boy scouts said “Let us make a campfire” and the boy scouts made the campfire.

That's right, Kathi.

The boy scoutS made the fire. Are you saying that “GodS created man in THEIR image”?

If so, you are speaking against the scriptures.

Kathi, this is very simple: I have shown you FOUR separate scriptures that distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the Creator of all things.

If you cannot show me a simple scripture that says Jesus created anything, or show me a simple scripture that speaks of our CreatorS, then let it go.

God created, and Jesus is the first thing He created. End of story.

December 18, 2011 at 8:58 pm#268313

Participant

Mike,

Quote

The boy scoutS made the fire. Are you saying that “GodS created man in THEIR image”?

Elohim is a plural word, like 'scouts' is a plural word, so? I'm saying that the word “God” in the Genesis verse “Let US make man in OUR image” is likely the God who is a unity of more than one member. In that verse, one member of the unity is talking to another member of the unity.

Quote

If so, you are speaking against the scriptures.

The verse does say “Us” and “Our” and Elohim IS Plural. That is scriptural.

Quote

I have shown you FOUR separate scriptures that distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the Creator of all things.

All you have shown does not discredit the unity of God made up of more than one member. I believe that scripture is clear that more than one member was involved in the act of creation and I have shown you several verses. You need to reread the story as found in the scriptures and not write your own. By showing me that the Father is credited with creation is not anything I dispute…in fact I agree with this, but I believe that the 'Word' was WITH Him and it was through the 'Word' that the God unity completed creation.

If the boyscouts made the campfire through the headmaster, that means the headmaster made the fire. This trouble that you try to make with the word 'through' isn't necessary. If an organization does something 'through' one of their members, like…um…if the church gave the missionary a million dollars to start a orphanage through one member, then that means that the 'one member' donated a million dollars themselves for the church to give.

So, if all things were brought to completion 'through' the Son, that means that the Son completed all things. You are hung up on insisting that the sentence has to be written with the Son as the subject of the sentence but that is creating unnecessary confusion for you and the readers. If I said: “Nearly every other post on HN is written through Mikeboll64,” Then it is the same as saying that “Mikeboll64 writes nearly every other post on HN.” (Which isn't far from the truth ).

Kathi

December 19, 2011 at 1:19 am#268330

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 18 2011,13:58)

All you have shown does not discredit the unity of God made up of more than one member.

God Almighty is ONE Being. And He has a SON named Jesus.

Do God AND His Son act in unity with each other? Absolutely. Are they both “parts of” God Almighty? Only in your dreams. Do we have TWO Almighty Gods? Preposterous, unscriptural, and anathema……..not to mention the meaning of the word “Almighty” prohibits it.

Hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Kathi, who exactly is the “God” who has recently spoken to us through His Son?

December 20, 2011 at 9:14 am#268517

Participant

Mike,
you said:

Quote

God Almighty is ONE Being.

God is almighty because of the unity with the Son and Spirit.

Quote

Do we have TWO Almighty Gods?

The Father with His Son and Spirit make up the ONE Almighty God. The existence and unity with the Son and Spirit are vital for the Father to be Almighty as I understand it.

The God who speaks through the Son is God the Father. He speaks through the begotten God, His Son. God speaks through God. The Unbegotten speaks through the begotten. Simple!

Kathi

December 20, 2011 at 11:11 pm#268629

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 20 2011,02:14)

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Do we have TWO Almighty Gods?

The Father with His Son and Spirit make up the ONE Almighty God. The existence and unity with the Son and Spirit are vital for the Father to be Almighty as I understand it.

But we've already been down this road, Kathi. I have showed you where the Father WITHOUT the Son is called “God Most High”, or “God Almighty”.

Then you said they were BOTH “Almighty Gods”. But now you're going back on your words again.

Pick a doctrine and stick to it, will ya?

December 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm#268656

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,16:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 20 2011,02:14)

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Do we have TWO Almighty Gods?

The Father with His Son and Spirit make up the ONE Almighty God. The existence and unity with the Son and Spirit are vital for the Father to be Almighty as I understand it.

But we've already been down this road, Kathi. I have showed you where the Father WITHOUT the Son is called “God Most High”, or “God Almighty”.

Then you said they were BOTH “Almighty Gods”. But now you're going back on your words again.

Pick a doctrine and stick to it, will ya?

December 21, 2011 at 6:25 am#268727

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,17:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 20 2011,02:14)

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Do we have TWO Almighty Gods?

The Father with His Son and Spirit make up the ONE Almighty God. The existence and unity with the Son and Spirit are vital for the Father to be Almighty as I understand it.

But we've already been down this road, Kathi. I have showed you where the Father WITHOUT the Son is called “God Most High”, or “God Almighty”.

Then you said they were BOTH “Almighty Gods”. But now you're going back on your words again.

Pick a doctrine and stick to it, will ya?

Mike,
The Father is never without the Son. The Son is and always was accessible to the Father. The Son's existence is what is vital for the Father to be Almighty since the Son plays a very important role.

Kathi

December 21, 2011 at 5:12 pm#268763

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:19)

And yet Jesus is almighty! Rev 1:8

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]. Matt 11:27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Luke 10:22

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 15:16

December 21, 2011 at 6:03 pm#268775

Ed J

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2011,03:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:19)

And yet Jesus is almighty! Rev 1:8

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Luke 10:22

Hi Kieth,

Glad to see you're back!
Did you recently get re-married?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 21, 2011 at 6:44 pm#268780

Participant

Nice to see you Keith! Welcome back

Blessings,
Kathi

December 22, 2011 at 12:45 am#268829

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2011,10:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:19)

And yet Jesus is almighty! Rev 1:8

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Luke 10:22

It seems to me that the One who GAVE all things into Jesus' hands is the Almighty One.

God Almighty has NEVER needed to have anything “GIVEN” to Him. Nor has He ever needed another to place His enemies at His feet.

Try again, Keith. I realize you've been gone for a while and are most likely a little rusty. I'll give you a do-over.

December 22, 2011 at 4:35 am#268876

Participant

Mike,
Why do you forget that the Son emptied Himself of something. If He emptied Himself of something, then He had less of the 'something' than He did before. That should be applauded not pointed out that He is less mighty than the one who didn't empty Himself, i.e. the Father. The Son became less mighty for our sakes and was given it back to Him by the Father to return to His original glory after He finished the work that He emptied Himself of in order to complete.

Kathi

December 22, 2011 at 5:32 am#268881

Participant

kathi

Quote

Kathi

you right sins the son was created they always together ,but their was a time a moment that the son was not there and the father was alone ,this is the truth.

Pierre

December 22, 2011 at 5:44 am#268883

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2011,10:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2011,19:19)

And yet Jesus is almighty! Rev 1:8

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Luke 10:22

looks like you are in full glamor,with your favored colors,just like the pope,

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earthSO HE RECIEVE FROM SOMEONE HIGHER THAN HIM. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]SO WHAT CHRIST IS SAYING IS THAT HE HAS MADE HIS FATHER KNOWN TO SOME MEN AND WE KNOW AT THE LEAST 12 OF THEM RIGHT ?. Matt 11:27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.SAME AS PREVIOUS Luke 10:22

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he

NOW THIS IF GOD GIVE ALL THINGS HE HAD AND POSESSED WOULD THAT INCLUD HIMSELF ?HIS GODS BEING SOME THING TO GIVE AWAY ? THIS CAN NOT BE ;SO ALL THE THING GOD HAS GIVEN TO THE SON ARE FROM THE SON DOWNWARD YES THIS IS THE TRUTH ;

IF YOUR FATHER GIVE YOU ALL HE HAS THIS MEANS WHAT IS HIS NOT INCLUDED HIMSELF ,RIGHT ?YES

Pierre

December 22, 2011 at 5:48 am#268886

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,23:32)

kathi

Quote

Kathi

you right sins the son was created they always together ,but their was a time a moment that the son was not there and the father was alone ,this is the truth.

Pierre

Pierre,
You won't find anything in scripture to back that up. Sorry.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God…

Kathi

December 22, 2011 at 5:52 am#268888

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,22:48)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,23:32)

kathi

Quote

Kathi

you right sins the son was created they always together ,but their was a time a moment that the son was not there and the father was alone ,this is the truth.

Pierre

Pierre,
You won't find anything in scripture to back that up. Sorry.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God…

Kathi

you said it yourself in the beginning (of creation )

this mean he was not there prior to that beginning ;

Pierre

December 22, 2011 at 6:15 am#268892