Who is the creator of all things?

[jammin]

terrarica,
answer the pending questions of kathi.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 28 2012,16:28)

Pierre, Why would you say that…protestants don't look to the pope or kiss his feet? What part of my belief is not in scriptures?  Back up your words Pierre. I say the Jesus is the Son of God for real. Do you not find that in scriptures? Maybe you should find a better translation. Kathi

Here is one of those questions you have not answered, Pierre. Bumped for your convenience. Please answer this.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 27 2012,22:17)

Pierre, If you don't know what love Paul is talking about and you don't know what kind of being that God is, just say so and stop with these games. Get to know what an only begotten son is Pierre…it is the foundational truth that the church is built on. Kathi

Pierre,
You haven't told me what kind of being God was yet.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2012,18:05)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2012,22:24) However, you seem to think that should apply to God's Son also………….. First of all, I said “sure” to move this discussion along.  A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind?  Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?   So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion. And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus.  And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary.  Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc.  And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.   Kathi, let's get this discussion back on topic: Revelation 3:14  14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above.  Who does Jesus credit with creation?

Mike,
you said:

Quote

So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion.

So you lied in order to move the conversation along. Hmmm.

Quote

A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind? Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?

Sure a baby can be aborted up until birth which is a disgrace, btw. And, yes I say that the baby existed and is as much a part of human kind as any human. Do you believe that it is right to kill an unborn baby, Mike? A baby can also be born prematurely which proves that they are a living being before a full 9 month term of pregnancy. For you to disagree with this you have to be so confused. Maybe we should have a poll about it to show you how silly it is to think that a person does not exist the day before he is born. He certainly exists, he exists within the mother. This is ludicrous!

In my area where I live there is a memorial for those aborted babies where people from all over the country have placed an engraved plate permanently on a wall with the child's name on it. People come there to place flowers and get healing through counseling. There is certainly a record of that baby's existence on every person's heart that aborted their baby. Many realize that what is inside their womb is a real person when they see their heart beat and suck their thumb, etc. on an ultrasound and feel them kick. Many women choose to continue that life that is LIVING inside of them instead of abortion. PTL for that.

Quote

And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus.

You believe that He pre-existed the flesh and then became flesh…did EVERY son who ever existed do that Mike?

Quote

And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary. Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc. And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.

Wow, I have been telling you that He was born and that He is the firstborn ever since I got here to HN. Where do you come up with that misinformation? I have shown you plenty of scriptures that show that your idea of the Son being created is on some very shaky grounds and even show you the Greek grammar to support my views.

Quote

Revelation 3:14 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above. Who does Jesus credit with creation?

God, the unity, which includes Himself as a member.

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,22:45)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 28 2012,16:28) Pierre, Why would you say that…protestants don't look to the pope or kiss his feet? What part of my belief is not in scriptures?  Back up your words Pierre. I say the Jesus is the Son of God for real. Do you not find that in scriptures? Maybe you should find a better translation. Kathi Here is one of those questions you have not answered, Pierre. Bumped for your convenience. Please answer this. Kathi

Kathi

the reason that the protestant denomination do not recognize the pope is because the separate from the Catholic church for that same reason it is not biblical and so is their practice ,history,Martin Luther,Calvin,J.menon,ect

Pierre

[terraricca]

Kathi

when was the son Begotten?

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,

Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

this would give a good date of wen he was gegotten or brought forth ,created,firstborn;

Pierre

[Lightenup]

So Pierre,
Would you admit that the Son was begotten before the ages which began with day 1?

Kathi

[jammin]

terrarica,
pls answer the question of kathi.

you just give verses but you cant explain those verses.
pls answer her questions.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 01 2012,01:00)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,22:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 28 2012,16:28) Pierre, Why would you say that…protestants don't look to the pope or kiss his feet? What part of my belief is not in scriptures?  Back up your words Pierre. I say the Jesus is the Son of God for real. Do you not find that in scriptures? Maybe you should find a better translation. Kathi Here is one of those questions you have not answered, Pierre. Bumped for your convenience. Please answer this. Kathi Kathi the reason that the protestant denomination do not recognize the pope is because the separate from the Catholic church for that same reason it is not biblical and so is their practice ,history,Martin Luther,Calvin,J.menon,ect Pierre

Pierre,
What is not Biblical?

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 02 2012,00:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 01 2012,01:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,22:45) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 28 2012,16:28) Pierre, Why would you say that…protestants don't look to the pope or kiss his feet? What part of my belief is not in scriptures?  Back up your words Pierre. I say the Jesus is the Son of God for real. Do you not find that in scriptures? Maybe you should find a better translation. Kathi Here is one of those questions you have not answered, Pierre. Bumped for your convenience. Please answer this. Kathi Kathi the reason that the protestant denomination do not recognize the pope is because the separate from the Catholic church for that same reason it is not biblical and so is their practice ,history,Martin Luther,Calvin,J.menon,ect Pierre Pierre, What is not Biblical? Kathi

Kathi

Quote

Kathi the reason that the protestant denomination do not recognize the pope is because the separate from the Catholic church for that same reason it is not biblical and so is their practice ,history,Martin Luther,Calvin,J.menon,ect Pierre

sorry I forgot a a word, so here it is ;the reason that the protestant denomination do not recognize the pope is because the separate from THE BIBLE the Catholic church for that same reason it is not biblical and so is their practice ,history,Martin Luther,Calvin,J.menon,ect

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 31 2012,23:16)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Revelation 3:14 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above. Who does Jesus credit with creation? God, the unity, which includes Himself as a member. Kathi

Goodbye Kathi.

[jammin]

mike is now ignoring the topic.
his famous line “goodbye” appeared again.

[mikeboll64]

That is correct, jammin.

When I show someone multiple scriptures that say the sky is blue and the grass is green, and they just keep insisting, WITH NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, that the sky is green and the grass is blue, what would you have me do? Keep on yelling back and forth, “YES IT IS!”………….”NO IT ISN'T!”………….”YES IT IS!” ?

You might enjoy spending your time that way, but I don't.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2012,12:19)

That is correct, jammin. When I show someone multiple scriptures that say the sky is blue and the grass is green, and they just keep insisting, WITH NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, that the sky is green and the grass is blue, what would you have me do?  Keep on yelling back and forth, “YES IT IS!”………….”NO IT ISN'T!”………….”YES IT IS!” ?   You might enjoy spending your time that way, but I don't.

yah mike

it's clear that you cant defend your anti christ belief.
that's why your famous line “goodbye” appeared again.

[mikeboll64]

Says the coward who keeps running from the scriptures I'm asking him to discuss with me!

[jammin]

your famous line “goodbye” clearly says that you are the coward

[mikeboll64]

Really jammin?

Are you ready to discuss the prayer in Acts 4 yet?  Are you ready to acknowledge that they prayed TO the One who created the heavens, earth, sea, and EVERYTHING in them?  Are you ready to acknowledge that Jesus is the SERVANT of that One they prayed to, and therefore couldn't possibly BE that One who created the heavens, earth, sea, and EVERYTHING in them?

Until you're ready to stand and defend your claims, you have no business calling anyone a coward.

[jammin]

maybe if you're done with your homework with me

as i have said, i do not give the pearls to the pigs.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,00:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2012,18:05) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2012,22:24) However, you seem to think that should apply to God's Son also………….. First of all, I said “sure” to move this discussion along.  A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind?  Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?   So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion. And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus.  And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary.  Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc.  And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.   Kathi, let's get this discussion back on topic: Revelation 3:14  14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above.  Who does Jesus credit with creation? Mike, you said: Quote So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion. So you lied in order to move the conversation along. Hmmm. Quote A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind?  Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?   Sure a baby can be aborted up until birth which is a disgrace, btw. And, yes I say that the baby existed and is as much a part of human kind as any human. Do you believe that it is right to kill an unborn baby, Mike? A baby can also be born  prematurely which proves that they are a living being before a full 9 month term of pregnancy. For you to disagree with this you have to be so confused. Maybe we should have a poll about it to show you how silly it is to think that a person does not exist the day before he is born. He certainly exists, he exists within the mother. This is ludicrous! In my area where I live there is a memorial for those aborted babies where people from all over the country have placed an engraved plate permanently on a wall with the child's name on it. People come there to place flowers and get healing through counseling. There is certainly a record of that baby's existence on every person's heart that aborted their baby. Many realize that what is inside their womb is a real person when they see their heart beat and suck their thumb, etc. on an ultrasound and feel them kick. Many women choose to continue that life that is LIVING inside of them instead of abortion. PTL for that. Quote And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus. You believe that He pre-existed the flesh and then became flesh…did EVERY son who ever existed do that Mike? Quote And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary.  Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc.  And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.   Wow, I have been telling you that He was born and that He is the firstborn ever since I got here to HN. Where do you come up with that misinformation? I have shown you plenty of scriptures that show that your idea of the Son being created is on some very shaky grounds and even show you the Greek grammar to support my views. Quote Revelation 3:14  14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above.  Who does Jesus credit with creation? God, the unity, which includes Himself as a member. Kathi

Mike,

It is a good time for you to take a break when you start lying in order to 'move the conversation along.'

When you claim that a son does not exist the day before he is born you are in a sad need of a Biology class. A birth does not equal the beginning of physical existence. A birth merely brings out that which had already existed within the womb for a period of time. Birth does not equal 'create' either which would mean that before birth the child did not exist in any physical way. I do not know what you are thinking is inside pregnant women if no child exists until birth.

Then you insist that Jesus, as a Son before the ages, must be exactly like the man that He and the Father created yet at the same time claim that the Father is not exactly like the man that He and the Son created.

So, if that is the 'water' that you are trying to lead me to drink, I will choose to pass because that water is laden with poison, imo.

Still hopeful,
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 02 2012,20:48)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 01 2012,00:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2012,18:05) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2012,22:24) However, you seem to think that should apply to God's Son also………….. First of all, I said “sure” to move this discussion along.  A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind?  Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?   So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion. And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus.  And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary.  Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc.  And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.   Kathi, let's get this discussion back on topic: Revelation 3:14  14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above.  Who does Jesus credit with creation? Mike, you said: Quote So again, I don't agree with you, but said what I said in the effort of moving forward with the discussion. So you lied in order to move the conversation along. Hmmm. Quote A child can be aborted at any time before he is born – would YOU say that aborted child had once “existed” as a part of human kind?  Would there be any records of his “existence” on this planet?   Sure a baby can be aborted up until birth which is a disgrace, btw. And, yes I say that the baby existed and is as much a part of human kind as any human. Do you believe that it is right to kill an unborn baby, Mike? A baby can also be born  prematurely which proves that they are a living being before a full 9 month term of pregnancy. For you to disagree with this you have to be so confused. Maybe we should have a poll about it to show you how silly it is to think that a person does not exist the day before he is born. He certainly exists, he exists within the mother. This is ludicrous! In my area where I live there is a memorial for those aborted babies where people from all over the country have placed an engraved plate permanently on a wall with the child's name on it. People come there to place flowers and get healing through counseling. There is certainly a record of that baby's existence on every person's heart that aborted their baby. Many realize that what is inside their womb is a real person when they see their heart beat and suck their thumb, etc. on an ultrasound and feel them kick. Many women choose to continue that life that is LIVING inside of them instead of abortion. PTL for that. Quote And it is only your wishes that make you insist that something pertaining to EVERY son who ever existed doesn't pertain to Jesus. You believe that He pre-existed the flesh and then became flesh…did EVERY son who ever existed do that Mike? Quote And you wish this DESPITE much scriptural evidence to the contrary.  Jesus is said to be “born”, “created”, “have an origin”, be a “firstborn son”, be “brought forth”, etc.  And you must ignore or try to change each and every instance of these teachings………………with NOTHING in the scriptures to support this attitude.   Wow, I have been telling you that He was born and that He is the firstborn ever since I got here to HN. Where do you come up with that misinformation? I have shown you plenty of scriptures that show that your idea of the Son being created is on some very shaky grounds and even show you the Greek grammar to support my views. Quote Revelation 3:14  14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Kathi, these are the words of Jesus himself above.  Who does Jesus credit with creation? God, the unity, which includes Himself as a member. Kathi Mike, It is a good time for you to take a break when you start lying in order to 'move the conversation along.' When you claim that a son does not exist the day before he is born you are in a sad need of a Biology class. A birth does not equal the beginning of physical existence. A birth merely brings out that which had already existed within the womb for a period of time. Birth does not equal 'create' either which would mean that before birth the child did not exist in any physical way. I do not know what you are thinking is inside pregnant women if no child exists until birth. Then you insist that Jesus, as a Son before the ages, must be exactly like the man that He and the Father created yet at the same time claim that the Father is not exactly like the man that He and the Son created. So, if that is the 'water' that you are trying to lead me to drink, I will choose to pass because that water is laden with poison, imo. Still hopeful, Kathi

Kathi

What is biology got the do with it ? Is GOd flesh ? Is his son in heaven flesh ?

So ?

[Author]

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