Which Bible should I believe?

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

this is clear that Jesus was an angel ,and came down from heaven to die for our sins ;BUT AGAIN YOU DENY CHRIST BUT THIS IS YOUR BIG MISTAKE ;REJECTING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD JEHOVAH AS SEND FROM HEAVEN TO SAVE AS ALL,

You are trying to interpret one passage to contradict another passage.  You should look for harmony in Scripture.

The question is “who is man”  and it is “man” that is put that God put everything under his feet.  The man that was made a little lower that the gods is Jesus.  There is not one word about him being an angel in that passage and you still have the situation that the world to come is not subjected to angels while it is subjected to Jesus.

[kerwin]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 11 2013,11:09)

Quote I THOUGHT I WAS WRITING BAD ENGLISH  BUT YOUR “KJV” IS OUT OF ITS TIME ,IF YOU WOULD SEND A LETTER TYPED IN THAT SORT OF ENGLISH TODAY , I BET YOU WOULD NEVER RECEIVE AN ANSWER     Pierre Just like if someone started talking words in Hebrew and Greek, you would get the same reaction! I do agree that the version Kerwin is using is confusing, not because of the english, but the wording.

Journey42,

I am using a older version than you are.  If yours is from Bible Gateway it is the 1987 printing according to Bible Gateway.  Even then it is probably an early 19th Century version and almost certainly not the one approved by King James I.

I looked it up on Bible Gateway and Wikipedia.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:13)

T, Quote this is clear that Jesus was an angel ,and came down from heaven to die for our sins ;BUT AGAIN YOU DENY CHRIST BUT THIS IS YOUR BIG MISTAKE ;REJECTING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD JEHOVAH AS SEND FROM HEAVEN TO SAVE AS ALL, You are trying to interpret one passage to contradict another passage.  You should look for harmony in Scripture. The question is “who is man”  and it is “man” that is put that God put everything under his feet.  The man that was made a little lower that the gods is Jesus.  There is not one word about him being an angel in that passage and you still have the situation that the world to come is not subjected to angels while it is subjected to Jesus.

K

PLEASE BE PRECISE SHOW SCRIPTURES IN WHICH I AM WRONG OR CONTRADICT, OR INTERPRETING WITH MY PERSONAL VIEW

[terraricca]

K

Quote

The man that was made a little lower that the gods is Jesus

THIS IS NOT CORRECT ;IT SHOULD BE “TO WHICH ANGEL ” NOT  TO “THE MAN “

Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”

HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?
And again,
“I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”?
HEB 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?

Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

YOU BRAKING SCRIPTURES BY THE HUNDRED ,YOU ARE FALSE IN YOUR TEACHING ON THIS ONE ANY WAY

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 11 2013,11:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:13) T, Quote this is clear that Jesus was an angel ,and came down from heaven to die for our sins ;BUT AGAIN YOU DENY CHRIST BUT THIS IS YOUR BIG MISTAKE ;REJECTING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD JEHOVAH AS SEND FROM HEAVEN TO SAVE AS ALL, You are trying to interpret one passage to contradict another passage.  You should look for harmony in Scripture. The question is “who is man”  and it is “man” that is put that God put everything under his feet.  The man that was made a little lower that the gods is Jesus.  There is not one word about him being an angel in that passage and you still have the situation that the world to come is not subjected to angels while it is subjected to Jesus. K PLEASE BE PRECISE SHOW SCRIPTURES IN WHICH I AM WRONG OR CONTRADICT, OR INTERPRETING WITH MY PERSONAL VIEW

T,

I was but I forget you are not a native English speaker.

The passage I quoted literally stated the world to come is not subject to angels.

Hebrews 2:5
New International Version (NIV)

5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

Jesus cannot be an angel if Hebrews 2:5 is true.  Nothing you quoted changes that fact.

Hebrews 2:6-8
New International Version (NIV)

6 But there is a place where someone has testified:

“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
   a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;
   you crowned them with glory and honor
8     and put everything under their feet.”[c]

In putting everything under them,[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.[f]

As you can see the whole passage is speaking of mankind.

Hebrews 2:9
New International Version (NIV)

9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Jesus is made a little lower than the angels because he is one of the human and not one of the angels.

Being crowned with glory and honor does not change him from being one of the humans and make one of the angels.  If it did he would be disqualified from having the world to come subjected to him for it is not subject to angels.

I hope this more modern version is easier to understand.

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, “YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”? And again, “I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”? HEB 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said, “SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?

The answer is none.  The world to come it is not subject to any angel but is subject to Christ.

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Is Jesus made angels who he does not help or like humanity who he does help.

We already know Jesus was made like humanity and not like the angels.  We also know that the world to come is not subject to angels but it is subject to Jesus.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:43)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 11 2013,11:25) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:13) T, Quote this is clear that Jesus was an angel ,and came down from heaven to die for our sins ;BUT AGAIN YOU DENY CHRIST BUT THIS IS YOUR BIG MISTAKE ;REJECTING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD JEHOVAH AS SEND FROM HEAVEN TO SAVE AS ALL, You are trying to interpret one passage to contradict another passage.  You should look for harmony in Scripture. The question is “who is man”  and it is “man” that is put that God put everything under his feet.  The man that was made a little lower that the gods is Jesus.  There is not one word about him being an angel in that passage and you still have the situation that the world to come is not subjected to angels while it is subjected to Jesus. K PLEASE BE PRECISE SHOW SCRIPTURES IN WHICH I AM WRONG OR CONTRADICT, OR INTERPRETING WITH MY PERSONAL VIEW   T, I was but I forget you are not a native English speaker. The passage I quoted literally stated the world to come is not subject to angels. Hebrews 2:5 New International Version (NIV) 5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. Jesus cannot be an angel if Hebrews 2:5 is true.  Nothing you quoted changes that fact. Hebrews 2:6-8 New International Version (NIV) 6 But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is mankind that you are mindful of them,    a son of man that you care for him? 7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;    you crowned them with glory and honor 8     and put everything under their feet.”[c] In putting everything under them,[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.[f] As you can see the whole passage is speaking of mankind. Hebrews 2:9 New International Version (NIV) 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Jesus is made a little lower than the angels because he is one of the human and not one of the angels. Being crowned with glory and honor does not change him from being one of the humans and make one of the angels.  If it did he would be disqualified from having the world to come subjected to him for it is not subject to angels. I hope this more modern version is easier to understand.

K

You mislead the words of Paul by not showing the context and the scriptures I have shown you in Hebrew 1:5!

Why do you so corrupting Paul's words

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:50)

T, Quote Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. Is Jesus made angels who he does not help or like humanity who he does help. We already know Jesus was made like humanity and not like the angels.  We also know that the world to come is not subject to angels but it is subject to Jesus.

K

What was Jesus before he was made like his to be brothers

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:46)

T, Quote HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, “YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”? And again, “I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”? HEB 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said, “SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”? The answer is none.  The world to come it is not subject to any angel but is subject to Christ.

K

Read the scriptures as it is written :but to the son he says to you HO god ……

I guess you right you will never see it ,you will always see it in your mind the way you want it to be,

I just read all scriptures and believe them ,

[journey42]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,16:16)

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 11 2013,11:09) Quote I THOUGHT I WAS WRITING BAD ENGLISH  BUT YOUR “KJV” IS OUT OF ITS TIME ,IF YOU WOULD SEND A LETTER TYPED IN THAT SORT OF ENGLISH TODAY , I BET YOU WOULD NEVER RECEIVE AN ANSWER     Pierre Just like if someone started talking words in Hebrew and Greek, you would get the same reaction! I do agree that the version Kerwin is using is confusing, not because of the english, but the wording. Journey42, I am using a older version than you are.  If yours is from Bible Gateway it is the 1987 printing according to Bible Gateway.  Even then it is probably an early 19th Century version and almost certainly not the one approved by King James I. I looked it up on Bible Gateway and Wikipedia.

Kerwin

Thanks for that.
Sorry I must of been reading Pierre's version. I checked out my scriptures and they are the same wording as yours.

[terraricca]

K

Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.

why did not Paul here in this verse says ADAM DESCENDANTS

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2013,19:00)

Jesus cannot be an angel as they do rule the world to come.

The Greek says “MESSENGERS” do not rule the world to come. Is Jesus a “MESSENGER”, Kerwin?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2013,23:13)

The man that was made a little lower than the gods is Jesus.

All men were made a little lower than the gods, Kerwin.  When Jesus emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being, he too, for a while, was a little lower than the gods.

But since then, he as been given back the glory he had alongside his God before the world began.  He has been exalted to an even higher position than the one he left, and has been given the name above all names.

He is no longer “a little lower than the gods”.  In fact, he rules over those gods now.  They bow to him now because he is the one to whom God gave all authority in heaven and earth.

[tigger2]

Is the KJV the best version of the Bible?

Quote

Journey42: “Tigger mentioned Jehovah. When one carries on about that, 99.9% they are Jehovah Witnesses. They believe theirs is the only true bible, and the rest corrupt.”

How can the KJV be the best version if it misuses the only personal name of God thousands of times?  Notice what the KJV says about this name (YHWH in Hebrew):

Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH [YHWH], art the most high over all the earth. – KJV.

And yet this very same translation misuses that very same name about 6000 times in the rest of the OT by changing the same name of YHWH to ‘LORD’ instead of Jehovah.

Notice the irony here in the NIV:

Exodus 20:7  “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD [YHWH] your God, for the LORD [YHWH] will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. – NIV (Compare NRSV below).

“The New Revised Standard Version translates the Third Commandment: ‘You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.’ The meaning of the Hebrew word [shawa], translated “wrongfully use” and “misuse,”—“in vain” in other translations is “deceit; deception; malice; falsity; vanity; emptiness” (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, “Deceit”).”  [bolding added]-
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/third_commandment.html  

If the KJV is true at Ps. 83:18, then it is misusing the personal name of God about 6000 times in the rest of the OT.  

For a more honest English translation of the Hebrew text which uses the personal name of God as found at Ps. 83:18 in the KJV try:
http://www.dnkjb.net/

Or
http://www.biblegateway.com/version….V-Bible

If I missed a previous reasonable answer to the above, please point it out to me.  

Obviously journey42 is off track about JWs if KJV is accurate at Ps. 83:18 or if the others found in the links are not misusing the Divine Name.

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010….od.html

[Wakeup]

Tigger 2.

That s right: you shall not missuse the name of your God.
Specially not use it to promote a product.

wakeup.

[tigger2]

Quote

Tigger 2. That s[sic] right: you shall not missuse [sic] the name of your God. Specially not use it to promote a product. wakeup.

From a list of fallacious arguments:

Needling:
simply attempting to make the other person angry, without trying to address the argument at hand. Sometimes this is a delaying tactic.
Needling is also Ad Hominem if you insult your opponent. You may instead insult something the other person believes in.

Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis):
this is sometimes used to avoid having to defend a claim, or to avoid making good on a promise. In general, there is something you are not supposed to notice.

Failure To State:
if you make enough attacks, and ask enough questions, you may never have to actually define your own position on the topic.

Answer the question: how can the KJV make the clear, definite statement that JEHOVAH is the only personal name of God, and yet misuse that same name 6000 times in the rest of the OT?

[journey42]

Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 12 2013,14:41)

Is the KJV the best version of the Bible? Quote Journey42: “Tigger mentioned Jehovah. When one carries on about that, 99.9% they are Jehovah Witnesses. They believe theirs is the only true bible, and the rest corrupt.” How can the KJV be the best version if it misuses the only personal name of God thousands of times?  Notice what the KJV says about this name (YHWH in Hebrew): Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH [YHWH], art the most high over all the earth. – KJV. And yet this very same translation misuses that very same name about 6000 times in the rest of the OT by changing the same name of YHWH to ‘LORD’ instead of Jehovah. Notice the irony here in the NIV: Exodus 20:7  “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD [YHWH] your God, for the LORD [YHWH] will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. – NIV (Compare NRSV below). “The New Revised Standard Version translates the Third Commandment: ‘You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.’ The meaning of the Hebrew word [shawa], translated “wrongfully use” and “misuse,”—“in vain” in other translations is “deceit; deception; malice; falsity; vanity; emptiness” (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, “Deceit”).”  [bolding added]- http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/third_commandment.html   If the KJV is true at Ps. 83:18, then it is misusing the personal name of God about 6000 times in the rest of the OT.   For a more honest English translation of the Hebrew text which uses the personal name of God as found at Ps. 83:18 in the KJV try: http://www.dnkjb.net/ Or http://www.biblegateway.com/version….V-Bible If I missed a previous reasonable answer to the above, please point it out to me.   Obviously journey42 is off track about JWs if KJV is accurate at Ps. 83:18 or if the others found in the links are not misusing the Divine Name. http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010….od.html

Tigger2

What is the correct spelling of God's proper name “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”?
If Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that “Yahweh” is more proper, why do they misspell it “Jehovah”?
If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too? Is not spelling more important than pronunciation?

[tigger2]

Perhaps if you will answer the question: How can the KJV make the clear, definite statement that JEHOVAH is the only personal name of God, and yet misuse that same name 6000 times in the rest of the OT, I will answer your off-subject distracting questions?

[journey42]

tigger2,Nov. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Obviously journey42 is off track about JWs if KJV is accurate at Ps. 83:18 or if the others found in the links are not misusing the Divine Name.

Tigger2

Does the word Jehovah appear in the Greek text of the New Testatment?

According to my research it says this;

The NWT translates the Greek word “kyrios” as “Jehovah” more than 25 times in the New Testament (Mt 3:3, Lk 2:9, Jn 1:23, Acts 21:14, Rom 12:19, Col 1:10, 1Thess 5:2, 1Pet 1:25, Rev 4:8, etc.). Why is the word “Jehovah” translated when it does not appear in the Greek text? Why is the NWT not consistent in translating kyrios (kurion) as “Jehovah” in Rom 10:9, 1Cor 12:3, Phil 2:11, 2Thess 2:1, and Rev 22:21 (see Gr-Engl Interlinear)?

Is this a false statement?

KJV
Matthew 3:3   For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

New World Translation
Matthew 3:3   This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet+ in these words: “A voice of one calling out in the wilderness:‘Prepare the way of Jehovah!* Make his roads straight.’”

Question: Is Jesus Jehovah?

Because if I was reading your version, I would think that John is proclaiming that God himself was coming, when the story says he prepared the way for Jesus?
Are you guys changing the story now?

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