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Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2013,12:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,11:51)
Tigger2.God was not speaking about false gods.
But about a god beside HIM.We know there are many lords and gods.
but they are all not true gods.
But gods created by men.
But you said there is **A GOD BESIDE GOD**.
God said **THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE HIM**.wakeup.
Wakeup,It is not wise to call false gods those who calls gods. Try honorary gods instead. False gods are the ones men put up against God.
Kerwin.We are gods.
Kings are gods.
Princes are gods.
The president is a god.
Moses was made a god to his people.
YHWH is the creator of all those gods.Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,14:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2013,12:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,11:51)
Tigger2.God was not speaking about false gods.
But about a god beside HIM.We know there are many lords and gods.
but they are all not true gods.
But gods created by men.
But you said there is **A GOD BESIDE GOD**.
God said **THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE HIM**.wakeup.
Wakeup,It is not wise to call false gods those who calls gods. Try honorary gods instead. False gods are the ones men put up against God.
Kerwin.We are gods.
Kings are gods.
Princes are gods.
The president is a god.
Moses was made a god to his people.
YHWH is the creator of all those gods.Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?wakeup.
Wakeup,The us is:
The immortal angels who have the knowledge of good and evil.
The children of God, human or angel, are called gods. Those humans who are not his children are called men.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2013,03:54) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,14:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2013,12:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,11:51)
Tigger2.God was not speaking about false gods.
But about a god beside HIM.We know there are many lords and gods.
but they are all not true gods.
But gods created by men.
But you said there is **A GOD BESIDE GOD**.
God said **THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE HIM**.wakeup.
Wakeup,It is not wise to call false gods those who calls gods. Try honorary gods instead. False gods are the ones men put up against God.
Kerwin.We are gods.
Kings are gods.
Princes are gods.
The president is a god.
Moses was made a god to his people.
YHWH is the creator of all those gods.Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?wakeup.
Wakeup,The us is:
The immortal angels who have the knowledge of good and evil.
The children of God, human or angel, are called gods. Those humans who are not his children are called men.
Kerwin.I dont think that the angels have seen evil as we have seen,
and experienced. They dont feel pain and suffering,and death.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 09 2013,00:13) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2013,03:54) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,14:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2013,12:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,11:51)
Tigger2.God was not speaking about false gods.
But about a god beside HIM.We know there are many lords and gods.
but they are all not true gods.
But gods created by men.
But you said there is **A GOD BESIDE GOD**.
God said **THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE HIM**.wakeup.
Wakeup,It is not wise to call false gods those who calls gods. Try honorary gods instead. False gods are the ones men put up against God.
Kerwin.We are gods.
Kings are gods.
Princes are gods.
The president is a god.
Moses was made a god to his people.
YHWH is the creator of all those gods.Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?wakeup.
Wakeup,The us is:
The immortal angels who have the knowledge of good and evil.
The children of God, human or angel, are called gods. Those humans who are not his children are called men.
Kerwin.I dont think that the angels have seen evil as we have seen,
and experienced. They dont feel pain and suffering,and death.wakeup.
Wakeup,You may be correct but I was speaking of the actual knowledge gained from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge that humanity earned without the maturity needed to use it wisely.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,02:26) Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?
Don't you mean, Who is that US ?God wasn't speaking of ONE, but of a group. And that group of beings was called gods earlier in that chapter.
Eating of the fruit would make Adam and Eve like the gods. Then they ate of it, and God said they had become “like US“.
So God is clearly including other beings along with Himself as “gods”.
Kerwin is correct that the “us” is God and His spirit sons.
They are all gods, with Jehovah being the MOST HIGH god of them all. He is the god OF all those other spirit gods who dwell with Him in heaven.
(Jesus, as the second most powerful spirit being in existence, is also one of those spirit gods who dwell in heaven with the Most High God Jehovah.)
And none of these faithful spirit servants of Jehovah is a “false god” or a “so-called god” or an “untrue god”, etc. Those words are not in any Hebrew or Greek text, but were made up by men who came much later.
From Part B of my “Seven Lessons for John 1:1c” linked in my Nov. 06 2013,08:24 post above which wakeup refused to examine:
Some of the trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God's angels as gods include:
1. Young's Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps…,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;
2. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew & Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;
3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;
4. Today's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;
5. Hastings' A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;
6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;
7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;
8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; & p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;
9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; & Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;
10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7, 1970 ed.;
11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;
12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;
13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;
14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press,1975;
15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 & Ps. 82:6);
16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);
17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible – Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (John 10:34-36);
18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);
19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).
20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), – p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.
21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.
22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.
23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.
24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.
25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.
26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.
27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.
28. Pastor Jon Courson, The Gospel According to John.(Also John 10:34, 35 – CEV: TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV; David Guzik – http://www.blbclassic.org/comment….ic=John )
And, of course the highly respected and highly popular Hellenic Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/”a god” about the same time the NT was written. – See the LOGOS study.
And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others – – including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; the writer of “The Epistle to Diognetus”; and even super-Trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine – – also had this understanding for “a god.”
So “a god” is perfectly reasonable at John 1:1c, for example.
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013….-a.htmlThe link above didn't work for me this time. It should have been this:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 09 2013,08:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,02:26) Behold THEY have become like one of us.
One of us,who is that one?
Don't you mean, Who is that US ?God wasn't speaking of ONE, but of a group. And that group of beings was called gods earlier in that chapter.
Eating of the fruit would make Adam and Eve like the gods. Then they ate of it, and God said they had become “like US“.
So God is clearly including other beings along with Himself as “gods”.
Kerwin is correct that the “us” is God and His spirit sons.
They are all gods, with Jehovah being the MOST HIGH god of them all. He is the god OF all those other spirit gods who dwell with Him in heaven.
(Jesus, as the second most powerful spirit being in existence, is also one of those spirit gods who dwell in heaven with the Most High God Jehovah.)
And none of these faithful spirit servants of Jehovah is a “false god” or a “so-called god” or an “untrue god”, etc. Those words are not in any Hebrew or Greek text, but were made up by men who came much later.
Mike B.That one of us is God.
Here is something simple to ponder on.Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Who was walking in the garden?
wakeup.
Wakeup,
I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion about who the “US” was.
I assume that Adam and Eve sensed the presence of Jehovah in the garden. Your KJV says it was the “voice” of Jehovah that was walking around, which sounds like the language often employed by the Hebrew writers of scripture when they spoke about the “word” of Jehovah coming to this person or that person. I understand it as poetic language, and not as there was a living entity who was actually walking through the garden.
From NETNotes:
The Hitpael participle of הָלָךְ (halakh, “to walk, to go”) here has an iterative sense, “moving” or “going about.” While a translation of “walking about” is possible, it assumes a theophany, the presence of the Lord God in a human form. This is more than the text asserts.
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 08 2013,15:26) From Part B of my “Seven Lessons for John 1:1c” linked in my Nov. 06 2013,08:24 post above which wakeup refused to examine: Some of the trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God's angels as gods include………….
You can add the 25 Trinitarian scholars of NETBible.org to your list as well, tigger.Their notes many times explain that lesser gods are mentioned in the scriptures. The link I posted takes you to Judges 13, where you can read their version of verse 22:
Manoah said to his wife, “We will certainly die, because we have seen a supernatural being!” 1
……… and their note about that translation:
Some take the Hebrew term אֱלֹהִים (’elohim) as the divine name (“God”) here, but this seems unlikely since v. 21 informs us that Manoah realized this was the Lord’s messenger, not God himself.
Another option, the one followed in the translation, understands Manoah to be referring to a lesser deity. The term אֱלֹהִים (’elohim) is sometimes used of an individual deity other than the Lord……
And here is part of their note on John 1:1c:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.
The Trinitarians often hide behind Colwell's Rule, and infer that this rule INSISTS that “theos” in part c be translated as “THE god”, ie: “God”. But these TRINITARIAN scholars of NETBible point out, not only that “a god” is one of the three possibilities, but also that Colwell's Rule merely allows for a translation of “God” – as opposed to demanding that translation, like the Trinitarians would have us believe.
They go on to say:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)…….. (Emphasis mine)
They even give a nod to Moffatt's “and the Word was divine”………. although that seems to be ruled out by
Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, which says: The noun form is here used, not the adjectival theios, which would be required to simply classify the Word as “god-like.”That being said, these guys are Trinitarians, and have decided on a translation of “and the Word was fully God” anyway, but their bias is shown by their own words:
However, in contemporary English “the Word was divine” (Moffatt) does not quite catch the meaning since “divine” as a descriptive term is not used in contemporary English exclusively of God.
However, in surveying a number of native speakers of English, some of whom had formal theological training and some of whom did not, the editors concluded that the fine distinctions indicated by “what God was the Word was” would not be understood by many contemporary readers. Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos is one in essence with God the Father.
In other words, they are telling us that their first choices of translation didn't accurately FORCE people into believing that Jesus was God Almighty Himself, and so they “doctored” their translation in order to get their biased, Trinitarian viewpoint across to their readers.
Anyway, I look forward to reading the research you've done. Thanks for posting the links.
Thank you, Mike.
I truly believe that my study proves that “a god” was intended by John at 1:1c.
I know that it is very rare that anyone carefully reads it, so I am looking forward to your take on it.
T2
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 10 2013,01:35) Thank you, Mike. I truly believe that my study proves that “a god” was intended by John at 1:1c.
I know that it is very rare that anyone carefully reads it, so I am looking forward to your take on it.
T2
tigger2,Insufficient evidence.
The most you can truthfully claim is that it might have been intended to mean what you say.
I could give you some supporting Scripture but I was don't believe what you teach and see no reason to aid you in teaching what is false.
The Word is God, a god, or divine does not care as they all can teach that about relationship or a characteristic of God's word.
Your interpretation is disproved by the passage in Hebrews that states angels, as in gods, do not rule the world to come. Jesus does even though he is a messenger.
Mine is not, no matter how you chose to word John 1:1.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,05:58) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 10 2013,01:35) Thank you, Mike. I truly believe that my study proves that “a god” was intended by John at 1:1c.
I know that it is very rare that anyone carefully reads it, so I am looking forward to your take on it.
T2
tigger2,Insufficient evidence.
The most you can truthfully claim is that it might have been intended to mean what you say.
I could give you some supporting Scripture but I was don't believe what you teach and see no reason to aid you in teaching what is false.
The Word is God, a god, or divine does not care as they all can teach that about relationship or a characteristic of God's word.
Your interpretation is disproved by the passage in Hebrews that states angels, as in gods, do not rule the world to come. Jesus does even though he is a messenger.
Mine is not, no matter how you chose to word John 1:1.
Kif you deny Christ being from heaven ,then Christ himself is a liar,and the scriptures are useless for you ,and so is your faith,IT SAYS THAT NO MEN CAN REPAY THE RANSOM FOR HIS LIVE TO GOD;
IT ALSO SAYS IN COL;1;15-21 THAT ALL CREATION WAS MADE THROUGH CHRIST THE SON OF GOD ,THIS WOULD BE A LIE ,;; BUT YOU NEED INTERPRETATION TO MAKE IT FIT IN YOUR DOCTRINE ; WHILE YOU DENY THE FACE VALUE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN ,
AND SO YOU HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT EVER SCRIPTURE COMES AND SHOW YOU THAT CHRIST CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ;SO YOUR FAITH HIS NOT THE BELIEVE IN THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD ,BUT THE INTERPRETATION OF “KERWIN” DREAMS AND SO IT AS TO BE “KERWIN ” THAT SAVES HIMSELF AND THE REST OF THE WORLD ,BECAUSE HE AS NULLIFIED THE DEAD OF CHRIST ;
T,
Jesus cannot be an angel as they do rule the world to come.
Jesus comes from heaven because his Spirit comes from heaven, as it is God's Spirit, and because he is the Messiah, the Gift from God.All creation was made through Jesus as soon as he died and was resurrected and ascended. It was certainly not made through him before or we would be in very sore shape having no forgiveness left.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,07:00) T, Jesus cannot be an angel as they do rule the world to come.
Jesus comes from heaven because his Spirit comes from heaven, as it is God's Spirit, and because he is the Messiah, the Gift from God.All creation was made through Jesus as soon as he died and was resurrected and ascended. It was certainly not made through him before or we would be in very sore shape having no forgiveness left.
kQuote Jesus cannot be an angel as they do rule the world to come. WHY WOULD YOU NOT ACCEPT WHAT SCRIPTURES SAYS
HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?
And again,
“I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”?
HEB 1:7 And of the angels He says,
“WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS,
AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE.”
HEB 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?Quote Jesus comes from heaven because his Spirit comes from heaven, as it is God's Spirit, and because he is the Messiah, the Gift from God. your first interpretation is this :his Spirit comes from heaven I CANNOT FIND ANY SCRIPTURE TO BACK THIS UP ;the second one is this;as it is God's Spirit
THERE AGAIN YOUR INTERPRETATION CANNOT BE FOUND IN SCRIPTURES ;GOD HIS A SPIRIT ,AND AS FAR THAT SCRIPTURES TELLS THAT IS HIS HEAVENLY BODY COMPOSITION ,BUT HE ALSO HAS A SPIRIT LIKE ALL OF US HAVE BEING A REAL BEING COMPLETE WITH A HEART,SOUL, POWER , AND HOLY MORALITY ,AND THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT GOD WANT US TO SHARE WITH HIM HIS HOLY MORALITY ,
AND THE THIRD ONE THIS ;and because he is the Messiah, the Gift from God THIS IS NOT CLEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO EXPRESS SO CLARIFY IT FOR ME ,
Quote All creation was made through Jesus as soon as he died and was resurrected and ascended kERWIN IS THAT WHAT PAUL SAYS
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.IT SAYS ; For by him(CHRIST) all things were created TELL ME SO ALL THINGS WAS NOT THERE BEFORE HE CAME ON EARTH RIGHT
ACCORDING TO YOU THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING , THIS IS AGAIN ANOTHER INTERPRETATION OF YOURS TO COVER UP YOUR ORIGINAL REJECTION OF CHRIST THE SON OF GOD BEING IN EXISTENCE BESIDE HIS FATHER AND HIS GOD BEFORE COMING DOWN TO EARTH , Quote It was certainly not made through him before or we would be in very sore shape having no forgiveness left. THIS IS ANOTHER INTERPRETATION AND A LIE FROM YOU ;THIS IS NOT TEACHED NOR SUPPORTED IN SCRIPTURES ,
ON THE CONTRARY YOU GOT IT ALL UPSIDE DOWN ;IT IS BECAUSE THAT CHRIST WAS THE FIRST OF ALL CREATION THAT THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS WAS POSSIBLE ,
BECAUSE HE (CHRIST THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ) SPOKE TO HIS FATHER AND INTERVENE FOR US ,OR SPOKE IN OUR FAVOR TO HIS FATHER , THIS IS WHY THE PROMISE WAS MADE SO LONG AGO EVEN BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN ,
THIS IS NOT GOOD TO CHANGE GOD'S WORD FOR OUR OWN MEANS ,
T,
You are the one that refuses to accept the fact Jesus is not an angel not me.
Hebrews 2:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
He put the world tome in subjection to man Jesus Christ who die for our sins.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,10:43) T, You are the one that refuses to accept the fact Jesus is not an angel not me.
Hebrews 2:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
He put the world tome in subjection to man Jesus Christ who die for our sins.
Kerwinare you reading the scriptures or testing me to see if i would look in context or did i knew you try to deceive me with your scriptures that you quote
Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same familythis is clear that Jesus was an angel ,and came down from heaven to die for our sins ;BUT AGAIN YOU DENY CHRIST BUT THIS IS YOUR BIG MISTAKE ;REJECTING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD JEHOVAH AS SEND FROM HEAVEN TO SAVE AS ALL,
I THOUGHT I WAS WRITING BAD ENGLISH BUT YOUR “KJV” IS OUT OF ITS TIME ,IF YOU WOULD SEND A LETTER TYPED IN THAT SORT OF ENGLISH TODAY , I BET YOU WOULD NEVER RECEIVE AN ANSWER
T,
Have you not read where it states:
Hebrews 10:26-27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
humans have not been in Christ before they enter the new covenant as they would have this judgement awaiting them. Why would you think such a thing.
Ephesians 4:24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)24 and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Instead the new man is created by and for Christ. The new man is one of the all things. Created is the same word in both English and Koine Greek.
and again.
Ephesians 2:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
and once more though the AKJV renders it made instead created this time.
Ephesians 2:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Quote I THOUGHT I WAS WRITING BAD ENGLISH BUT YOUR “KJV” IS OUT OF ITS TIME ,IF YOU WOULD SEND A LETTER TYPED IN THAT SORT OF ENGLISH TODAY , I BET YOU WOULD NEVER RECEIVE AN ANSWER
PierreJust like if someone started talking words in Hebrew and Greek, you would get the same reaction!
I do agree that the version Kerwin is using is confusing, not because of the english, but the wording.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2013,11:05) T, Have you not read where it states:
Hebrews 10:26-27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
humans have not been in Christ before they enter the new covenant as they would have this judgement awaiting them. Why would you think such a thing.
Ephesians 4:24
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)24 and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Instead the new man is created by and for Christ. The new man is one of the all things. Created is the same word in both English and Koine Greek.
and again.
Ephesians 2:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
and once more though the AKJV renders it made instead created this time.
Ephesians 2:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
KALL YOUR SCRIPTURES ARE RELATED TO TO US MEN TO BE SAVED ;CHRIST DID NOT COME TO BE SAVED BUT TO SAVE,SO THOSE SCRIPTURES CAN BY NO MEANS BE ADDRESSED TO HIM
HE CAME DOWN TO MAKE THE RECONCILIATION WORK ,WITH GOD HIS FATHER POSSIBLE FOR US .SO THAT WE CAN BE SAVED FROM DEAD
THIS IS WHY CHRIST SAYS WEN HE PRAYED TO HIS FATHER AND GOD ;
Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
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