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Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 05 2013,13:18) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2013,15:26) Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 05 2013,09:34) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 05 2013,13:22) Quote What do you think all those 7 million ordinary people are doing when they call at doors or start home Bible studies (without elders present)?
Try to sell us the “Watchtower”
and scout out the “vulnerable”.
If someone who knows their scriptures brings out their bible and challenges their doctrine, then they will go and get their elders.I should know, they did this to me all the time, and in the end even their elders got stumped and stopped coming around.
I'm still waiting for them to return, and it's been 5 years or so.
They always pass my house.
J42It seems you have gone of track here ,,you jump on it quick ,to cover all the lies of the KJV , what you guy ,s try to sell us on this site,
Pierre,You have covered yourself good having all your different bibles. Different languages is ok, but what versions?
But to rely on so many different english versions is what I call bible adultery. Just stick to one.
j42 you are funny, book adultery 
if only you could understand why i did this ;but you are stuck on one corrupted version and in only one language ,so you would believe all the flaws ,all the deceptions of that version ,and have no way out of the pit of error .even in the time of Christ there where two version in two languages GREEK AND HEBREW,
OF COURSE YOU ARE SO BIGOT THAT YOU CANNOT SEE THE TRUTH AND SO BECOME INTOLERANT TO THE TRUTH OF GOD ,IT IS SO BAD THAT YOU HAVE EVEN REJECTED THE HEBREW AND GREEK VERSIONS EVEN THE OLDEST COPIES AVAILABLE,
LIKE THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS ,YOU GUY'S ARE DEAD STOPPED IN YOUR OWN TRACKS,Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 05 2013,09:38) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 05 2013,14:29) What does all that have to do with “which Bible should I believe”??
Because if you are JW, Your Bible will have John 1:1 mixed up.
The most important verse in the whole bible.NWT
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word with God, and the word was a god.”As if there's more than one God?
journey42,That is probably a poor rendering of John 1:1 as well. It makes hash of the Trinitarian definitions of God. I believe it works better with other Christologies though not the JW's.
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 05 2013,13:12) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 05 2013,14:48) Where have I promoted “my” Bible?? If you want to discuss John 1:1c, I suggest you open a new discussion confined to that single clause.
Meanwhile I thought we were discussing the KJV (and 'JEHOVAH' found within it.)
Tigger2John 1:1 is a valid point in what bible should we believe. That one should go in the bin.
The only way to discern is from the actual scriptures themselves.Saying in the beginning the word was a god, is contradicting many scriptures alone.
Are you new? Check out all the other topics. They change constantly. No one ever sticks to the subject although we should.
There is a Jehovah post someone. You search.
j42Quote John 1:1 is a valid point in what bible should we believe. That one should go in the bin.
The only way to discern is from the actual scriptures themselves.Saying in the beginning the word was a god, is contradicting many scriptures alone.
Are you new? Check out all the other topics. They change constantly. No one ever sticks to the subject although we should.
There is a Jehovah post someone. You search.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(CHRIST THE SON), and the Word (CHRIST THE SON )was with God, and the Word(CHRIST THE SON) was a God.
Jn 1:2 He(Christ the son) was with God in the beginning.
I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG IN THIS ;LOOK AT MY FOLLOWING SCRIPTURES
DT 10:17 “ For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
PS 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
DA 2:47 The king answered Daniel and said, “Surely your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, since you have been able to reveal this mystery.”
DA 11:36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.DO YOU NOTICE THAT IT SAYS “GOD ” OF GODS ” NOT GODS OF GODS ” SO THIS MEANS THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD THAT IS OVER ALL THE OTHER GODS WHOEVER THEY ARE ;SO THIS WORKS WELL WITH JOHN 1;1 AND IS IN NO WAY CONTRADICTING THOSE SCRIPTURES ,
I see that we have been successfully derailed from the important discussion of why the KJV uses the only personal name of God, JEHOVAH, at Ps. 83:18 and not in nearly 6000 uses of the same Hebrew word in the rest of scripture.
I suppose the same tactic will be used to avoid the KJV's inclusion of the spurious ending of Mark 16:9-19. It is this spurious verse in Mark 16:18 which has caused some KJV followers to die from snakebite (and, I suppose poison also).
As for John 1:1c, which should be restricted to a new discussion of that clause only, see my study of it:
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 06 2013,03:24) As for John 1:1c, which should be restricted to a new discussion of that clause only, see my study of it:
HiI aggre with you on John 1-1 c
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,14:48) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 06 2013,03:24) As for John 1:1c, which should be restricted to a new discussion of that clause only, see my study of it:
HiI aggre with you on John 1-1 c
T.But God disagree wiyh you.
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
***for I am God, and there is none else***.Meaning: there is not **A GOD** beside him.
KEPP ON CONTRADICTING THE SCRIPTURES
TO SATISFY YOURSELF.wakeup.
Quote T. But God disagree wiyh you.
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
***for I am God, and there is none else***.Meaning: there is not **A GOD** beside him.
KEPP ON CONTRADICTING THE SCRIPTURES
TO SATISFY YOURSELF.wakeup.
There is no God beside him, but there are gods (including angels and god-appointed humans such as certain Israelite judges and kings.) This was made clear in the study you obviously didn't examine: Part B of the “Seven Lessons…” found through the link above.
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 06 2013,16:32) Quote T. But God disagree wiyh you.
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
***for I am God, and there is none else***.Meaning: there is not **A GOD** beside him.
KEPP ON CONTRADICTING THE SCRIPTURES
TO SATISFY YOURSELF.wakeup.
There is no God beside him, but there are gods (including angels and god-appointed humans such as certain Israelite judges and kings.) This was made clear in the study you obviously didn't examine: Part B of the “Seven Lessons…” found through the link above.
Tigger2.God was not speaking about false gods.
But about a god beside HIM.We know there are many lords and gods.
but they are all not true gods.
But gods created by men.
But you said there is **A GOD BESIDE GOD**.
God said **THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE HIM**.wakeup.
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 06 2013,17:00) Sorry, I tend to ignore willful ignorance.
Tigger2Do you believe that there is A GOD beside God?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,14:03) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 06 2013,17:00) Sorry, I tend to ignore willful ignorance.
Tigger2Do you believe that there is A GOD beside God?
wakeup.
wI think as the scriptures is saying there are many gods;
DT 10:17 “ For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
PS 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods,
For His loving kindness is everlasting.
DA 2:47 The king answered Daniel and said, “Surely your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, since you have been able to reveal this mystery.”
DA 11:36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.but only one God like Jehovah God ,he stands alone in his class
journey,
From NETNotes:
The Hebrew text as it stands reads, “Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite.”
Who killed Goliath the Gittite? According to 1 Sam 17:4-58 it was David who killed Goliath, but according to the MT of 2 Sam 21:19 it was Elhanan who killed him.
Many scholars believe that the two passages are hopelessly at variance with one another. Others have proposed various solutions to the difficulty, such as identifying David with Elhanan or positing the existence of two Goliaths. But in all likelihood the problem is the result of difficulties in the textual transmission of the Samuel passage; in fact, from a text-critical point of view the books of Samuel are the most poorly preserved of all the books of the Hebrew Bible.
The parallel passage in 1 Chr 20:5 reads, “Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath.” Both versions are textually corrupt. The Chronicles text has misread “Bethlehemite” (בֵּית הַלַּחְמִי, bet hallakhmi) as the accusative sign followed by a proper name אֶת לַחְמִי (’et lakhmi). (See the note at 1 Chr 20:5.) The Samuel text misread the word for “brother” (אַח, ’akh) as the accusative sign (אֵת, ’et), thereby giving the impression that Elhanan, not David, killed Goliath.
Thus in all probability the original text read, “Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath.”
Oh, and about the KJV's “Jaareoregim”, they say:
Heb “Jaare-Oregim,” but the second word, which means “weavers,” is probably accidentally included. It appears at the end of the verse.
The term is omitted in the parallel account in 1 Chr 20:5, which has simply “Jair.”
They believe that since the word “weavers” occurs at the end of the verse, it was accidently also placed after the name “Jair”. It is telling that the parallel account in 1 Chronicles 20:5 has only the name “Jair”.
Perhaps another hint that was overlooked by the KJV scholars?
Hi Mike
Firstly, thank you for watching the video and addressing those points.
But can I ask you this?
If I write a song, copyright it, and distribute, then another person comes along …..400 years later…. and claims it's their song, then who's song is it?So, I hadn't posted in this thread for a week, and came back today and caught up with all the posts. What a trip!
What's happened to journey and Wakeup?
tigger is right that the discussion started off being about why the KJV scholars felt it was appropriate to ALTER the written word of God and all but ELIMINATE His Divine Name from their translation. (Well, that, and the “I created evil” thing.) Why aren't you guys DEALING WITH that point? Why are you DIVERTING away from it to talk about John 1:1 in the NWT, and Jehovah's Witnesses in general? And you're not even doing that with honesty.
First of all, ANY JW can discuss ANY scripture with ANY other person without an elder being present.
Secondly, the NWT translation of 1:1c is not only the correct and SENSIBLE translation, it is also the same exact translation that is in the Coptic translation – which is the very FIRST translation of the Greek scriptures into a language that uses an indefinite article. And that means that the very FIRST chance ANYONE ever had to translate 1:1c as, “and the Word was a god”– they did it! And that was less than 200 years after John wrote the words……. way earlier than the KJV's flawed, “and the Word was God” translation – which tells us that our one and only God was WITH our one and only God in the beginning.
Also, you guys are blind to think that there LITERALLY exists only one “el/theos/god”. The scriptures are full of many other gods, many of them called that by Jehovah Himself. Besides, Jesus is called a god in at least 5 scriptures – not just John 1:1.
But this thread is about the “flawlessness” of the KJV, so we should try our best to stay on topic. That being said, I have but two questions for Wakeup and journey:
1. If YOU personally were assigned the task by God to translate His written word from Hebrew to English, would YOU take it upon yourself to ALTER the text, and change “YHWH” to “LORD”? Or would you do your best to translate the Hebrew words AS THEY WERE WRITTEN…….. each and every time?
2. Since the KJV scholars translated the Hebrew word “ra” as “adversity” in at least 4 verses, is there any LOGICAL or SCRIPTURAL reason that they could NOT have also translated the same word as “adversity” in Isaiah 45:7? YES or NO?
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 06 2013,19:23) Hi Mike Firstly, thank you for watching the video and addressing those points.
But can I ask you this?
If I write a song, copyright it, and distribute, then another person comes along …..400 years later…. and claims it's their song, then who's song is it?
It would still be your song, journey.Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 07 2013,13:28) This Pastor is a 7th Day Adventist.
Just for info: He's a Baptist. I googled his name.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 07 2013,11:59) journey, From NETNotes:
Hi MikeAll this info goes over my head, but I am learning as I go. We must check everything out.
BTW what are NetNotes? Does it just mean notes you have obtained on the net, regardless of source? Or is a major source you go to with their explainations?
Anyway,
Lets check it outQuote The Hebrew text as it stands reads, “Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite.”
The Hebrew Text, from where? Be patient please. I'm learning.
Are they speaking of the the copies found in 1947? The dead sea scrolls which date back to the first century BC?Quote Who killed Goliath the Gittite? According to 1 Sam 17:4-58 it was David who killed Goliath
Yes, according to scripture;
1 Samuel 17:51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.Quote , but according to the MT of 2 Sam 21:19 it was …Elhanan …who killed him.
According to what? Those dead sea scrolls, or another? Because if I look up 2 Sam 21:19, I get this; it contradicts what this person is saying, but harmonises with my KJV. (Brother of Goliath)King James Bible
..2 Sam 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the…brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.Quote Many scholars believe that the two passages are hopelessly at variance with one another.
No joke Quote Others have proposed various solutions to the difficulty, such as identifying David with Elhanan or positing the existence of two Goliaths. But in all likelihood the problem is the result of difficulties in the textual transmission of the Samuel passage;
To me it harmonises so far from the KJV
Quote in fact, from a text-critical point of view the books of Samuel are the most poorly preserved of all the books of the Hebrew Bible.
Is that a fact is it? Then how come the KJV has it all in tact, harmonising with other scriptures? Lets pick on the poor preservation now shall we? (to the author Mike, not to you)Quote The parallel passage in 1 Chr 20:5 reads, “Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath.” Both versions are textually corrupt.
What both versions now? I'm totally confused?King James Bible
1 Chron 20:5 And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam.This harmonises with 2 Sam 21:9 in the KJV.
Quote The Chronicles text has misread “Bethlehemite” (בֵּית הַלַּחְמִי, bet hallakhmi) as the accusative sign followed by a proper name אֶת לַחְמִי (’et lakhmi). (See the note at 1 Chr 20:5.) The Samuel text misread the word for “brother” (אַח, ’akh) as the accusative sign (אֵת, ’et), thereby giving the impression that Elhanan, not David, killed Goliath.
What on earth does this mean. Trying to confuse? Some of us are simple people you know.Quote Thus in all probability the original text read, “Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath.”
Who's side is this guy on? I was getting all defensive!
Ok, they made a mistake, but who made the mistake? Not enough facts and too much jargon. I'm a simple person Mike.
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