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Kerwin,
Give it up. Angels shouted for joy when God formed the earth. That means they already existed before that time.
You can play word games with “laid the foundations of the earth” all you want, but nobody here is buying your word-game nonsense except for you.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,01:07) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 17 2013,14:49) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,13:45) Wakeup, Genesis 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, …
So whatever you conclude it cannot contradict the the generation of both the heavens and earth were created in the “day” the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
The angels celebrated when the foundations of the earth were laid.
Kerwin.Dont confuse HEAVEN WHERE GOD AND HIS ANGELS RESIDE,
and the HEAVENS,this is where our sun,moon, and planets are.wakeup.
Wakeup,I did not as the heaven where the sun, moon, stars, etc are is the part of earth and so is summed up in the generations of earth. I go into it in more details in the post I just made and which is addressed to journey.
Kerwin.If you believe it that way it's fine with me.
I dont believe that God's heaven is as old as ours.
But you are contradicting other scriptures.
He was from everlasting;BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,11:56) Wakeup? My last post to you? No answer? Hmmmm…………….
Are you and journey EVER going to acknowledge the FACT that it was the KJV scholars' CHOICE to translate the Hebrew word “ra” as
“evil” in Isaiah 45:7? And that they could have translated it as “affliction”, “adversity”, or “trouble”…….. instead of “evil”? Since they do translate the same Hebrew word as all three of those things in other verses?Or are you just going to pretend that post isn't there?
Either way is fine with me, because the FACTS are now out there for all to see.
Mike B.Read this:
2 Timothy 3:16 ***All scripture is given by inspiration of
God***,
and ***is profitable for doctrine***,
***for reproof***, ***for correction***,
***for instruction in righteousness***:I believe what the scripture says.
They are inspired by the Holy Spirit.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,18:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 17 2013,08:46) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,13:20) W Quote 1.In the beginning was the Word;and the Word was with God.
This was when the Word was enforced/utilized.WHERE IS THIS MYSTERY IN SCRIPTURES
?
Hi Terra.The mystery is found only when the dots are
put together the right way.
You can not find that list in the bible.
That is the fruits of understanding all the scriptures.That is the picture you get by understanding what you read.
This why we have to SEEK,and find.wakeup.
WSo there are in reality no mysteries in the scriptures ,but only a lack of understanding to put the dots together ,
It is like talking to someone that talks in a different language than yours and you do not understand that language ,but can learn it ,
T.The bilble contains words and sentences.
You need to understand what you read,and remeber it.
And then you can put two and two togetrher.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,07:18) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,18:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 17 2013,08:46) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,13:20) W Quote 1.In the beginning was the Word;and the Word was with God.
This was when the Word was enforced/utilized.WHERE IS THIS MYSTERY IN SCRIPTURES
?
Hi Terra.The mystery is found only when the dots are
put together the right way.
You can not find that list in the bible.
That is the fruits of understanding all the scriptures.That is the picture you get by understanding what you read.
This why we have to SEEK,and find.wakeup.
WSo there are in reality no mysteries in the scriptures ,but only a lack of understanding to put the dots together ,
It is like talking to someone that talks in a different language than yours and you do not understand that language ,but can learn it ,
T.The bilble contains words and sentences.
You need to understand what you read,and remeber it.
And then you can put two and two togetrher.wakeup.
WYOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE ANALOGY I MADE
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,06:58) Kerwin, Give it up. Angels shouted for joy when God formed the earth. That means they already existed before that time.
You can play word games with “laid the foundations of the earth” all you want, but nobody here is buying your word-game nonsense except for you.
Mike,It does not say that.
It states
Quote who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? It is speaking of the corner stone of the foundation.
Ezra 3:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, they set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the Lord, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.
The people also celebrated in a like manner when the foundation of the Second Temple was laid.
We can thus claim that when God laid the head stone of the corner of the foundations of earth the angels were there to celebrate. That is after earth was created.
I am not able to exactly pin down the time that the foundations of earth were laid but there are a few passages that give a rough sort of order.
Psalm 104:1-5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
Psalm 1041 Bless the Lord, O my soul.
O Lord my God, thou art very great;
thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment:
who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters:
who maketh the clouds his chariot:
who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 who maketh his angels spirits;
his ministers a flaming fire:
5 who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.“Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment”
Light is created on the first Night and Day.
“who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain”
heaven was made on the second Night and Day.
Then angels are made.
“who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.”After that the foundations of the earth were laid.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,14:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,06:58) Kerwin, Give it up. Angels shouted for joy when God formed the earth. That means they already existed before that time.
You can play word games with “laid the foundations of the earth” all you want, but nobody here is buying your word-game nonsense except for you.
Mike,It does not say that.
It states
Quote who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? It is speaking of the corner stone of the foundation.
Ezra 3:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, they set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the Lord, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.
The people also celebrated in a like manner when the foundation of the Second Temple was laid.
We can thus claim that when God laid the head stone of the corner of the foundations of earth the angels were there to celebrate. That is after earth was created.
I am not able to exactly pin down the time that the foundations of earth were laid but there are a few passages that give a rough sort of order.
Psalm 104:1-5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
Psalm 1041 Bless the Lord, O my soul.
O Lord my God, thou art very great;
thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment:
who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters:
who maketh the clouds his chariot:
who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 who maketh his angels spirits;
his ministers a flaming fire:
5 who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.“Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment”
Light is created on the first Night and Day.
“who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain”
heaven was made on the second Night and Day.
Then angels are made.
“who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.”After that the foundations of the earth were laid.
Kerwin.1.Is the heavenly kingdom as old as the earth?
2.Were the angels created when adam was created?
3.Was God with no kingdom before the earth was created?
4.Was lucifer created when Adam was created?
5 Was the earth from everlasting?
6.Was Adam from everlasting?wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,06:58) Kerwin, Give it up. Angels shouted for joy when God formed the earth. That means they already existed before that time.
You can play word games with “laid the foundations of the earth” all you want, but nobody here is buying your word-game nonsense except for you.
Mike,It does not say that.
It states
Quote who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? It is speaking of the corner stone of the foundation.
No Kerwin,It says “FOUNDATION”.
Here are the Strong's definitions:
a primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively);
intensively, to found; reflexively, to sit down together, i.e.
settle, consult:-appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the,
lay for a) found(-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.I don't know where you're getting “cornerstone”, but it is the same difference, since the cornerstone of a building is the FIRST stone laid. And it is usually laid with great pomp and circumstance, singing and joyful shouts.
Hmmm………….. sound familiar?
So like I said, play word-games all you want. But nobody here but you is buying what you're selling.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:50) 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul.
O Lord my God, thou art very great;
thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment:
who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters:
who maketh the clouds his chariot:
who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 who maketh his angels spirits;
his ministers a flaming fire:
5 who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.
Take verses 2-5 in chronological order, Kerwin.Do you seriously believe all “light” is the same? Do you believe God dwells in unapproachable “sunlight”?
Wakeup,
1. Yes, As they are parallel creations.
2. No, God spoke to the angels before he created adam.
3. No, There was no creation before God created the heaven and the earth. Only those things that are not created existed. That was the total of God’s kingdom at that time before he created the heaven and the earth.
4. No, He was created with the rest of the angels.
5 No, as both heaven and earth were created.
6.No, As he was created.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,07:06) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:50) 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul.
O Lord my God, thou art very great;
thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment:
who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters:
who maketh the clouds his chariot:
who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 who maketh his angels spirits;
his ministers a flaming fire:
5 who laid the foundations of the earth,
that it should not be removed for ever.
Take verses 2-5 in chronological order, Kerwin.Do you seriously believe all “light” is the same? Do you believe God dwells in unapproachable “sunlight”?
Mike,I not going to call it “sunlight” because all it states is “light” and I see no reason that it is not literally “light”. I do know that according to the verse it is something he put on.
I am taking it in chronological order though it seems to disagree at some points with the words in Job.
God chose to dress in light and then planted beam of his chambers in the waters of earth. He then made the clouds his chariot and walks on wind. After that he made the angels and then laid the foundation of the earth. It goes on to say he flooded it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,06:58) Kerwin, Give it up. Angels shouted for joy when God formed the earth. That means they already existed before that time.
You can play word games with “laid the foundations of the earth” all you want, but nobody here is buying your word-game nonsense except for you.
Mike,It does not say that.
It states
Quote who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? It is speaking of the corner stone of the foundation.
No Kerwin,It says “FOUNDATION”.
Here are the Strong's definitions:
a primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively);
intensively, to found; reflexively, to sit down together, i.e.
settle, consult:-appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the,
lay for a) found(-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.I don't know where you're getting “cornerstone”, but it is the same difference, since the cornerstone of a building is the FIRST stone laid. And it is usually laid with great pomp and circumstance, singing and joyful shouts.
Hmmm………….. sound familiar?
So like I said, play word-games all you want. But nobody here but you is buying what you're selling.
Mike,Quote I don't know where you're getting “cornerstone”, but it is the same difference, since the cornerstone of a building is the FIRST stone laid. And it is usually laid with great pomp and circumstance, singing and joyful shouts. My source is:
Psalm 118:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 The stone which the builders refused
is become the head stone of the corner.The builders refused it then chose to use it later as a more important stone. I am not sure how the building were built then or what stone they considered the corner stone. I do know that today that mason's consider the first stone laid above ground to be the cornerstone. That does not sound the head of the corner. It also does not sound like the time of the celebration of the laying of the foundation for the Second Temple.
Note: Corner Stone
Kerwin.
Quote
1. Yes, As they are parallel creations.THAT WORD IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE;YOU MUST HAVE PICKED THAT UP SOMEWHERE IN BABYLON.PARALELL;BIG BANG;
STRING THEORY.Dont pick up anything from babylon and incorporated it into the scriptures.Quote
2. No, God spoke to the angels before he created adam.THIS ONLY MEANS THAT THE ANGELS WERE THERE BEFORE
ADAM. AND GOD'S KINGDOM WAS BEFORE ADAM.
LUCIFER MUST HAVE TURED REBELLIOUS AT A CERTAIN TIME PRIOD IN HEAVEN,FOR HE CORRUPTED ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS, THIS MUST HAVE TAKEN SOME TIME.Quote
3. No, There was no creation before God created the heaven and the earth. Only those things that are not created existed. That was the total of God’s kingdom at that time before he created the heaven and the earth.NOT GOOD TO MAKE THINGS UP.
GOD CREATED THINGS FROM NOTHING.ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM;THIS INCLUDES THE ATOMS AND ELECTRONS.
GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH.
THIS IS AN ACCOUNT OF THE CREATION OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM,AND THE EARTH.
THERE IS NO ACCAOUNT IN THE BIBLE; HOW HE CREATED HIS HEAVENLY KINGDOM.HOW AND WHEN HE STARTED CREATING THE ANGELS.Quote
4. No, He was created with the rest of the angels.THERE ARE MILLION/BILLIONS OF ANGELS AND ONLY TWO
ON EARTH. GOD MUST HAVE MASS PRODUCED THE ANGELS.
I REMEMBER YOU SAYING THAT THE ANGELS ARE FLESH.
BILLIONS CREATED IN THE FLESH IN HEAVEN AND ONLY TWO ON EARTH. ANGELS MUST HAVE BEEN MASS PRODUCED.Quote
5 No, as both heaven and earth were created.THIS CAN NOT BE: BECAUSE THE MILLIONS/BILLIONS OF ANGELS WERE NOT CREATED ON THE ONE DAY(SIX DAY).
Quote
6.No, As he was created.TWO HUMANS WERE CREATED;AND BILLIONS OF ANGELS
WERE CREATED IN THE SAME TIME PERIOD,IS BEYOND ME.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Quote THAT WORD IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE;YOU MUST HAVE PICKED THAT UP SOMEWHERE IN BABYLON.PARALELL;BIG BANG;
STRING THEORY.Dont pick up anything from babylon and incorporated it into the scriptures.Are you really as “unlearned and unstable ” as those words seem to say?
I doubt it so stop speaking “as one of the foolish women speaketh” and start speaking as the wise.
Answer my point instead of making false accusations against your neighbor.
Note: Where in Scripture did I quote those words from?
Wakeup,
Quote THIS ONLY MEANS THAT THE ANGELS WERE THERE BEFORE
ADAM. AND GOD'S KINGDOM WAS BEFORE ADAM.
GYou are sounding wiser in this than in your accusation.
Yes, Angels were created before Adam. I did not choose to enter any evidence to pinpoint their creation more exactly than that.
We know that both heaven and earth were created in the beginning.
Genesis 1:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
So angels were created at a time that is after the heaven and earth were created but before adam was created.
The first sin I know Satan commited was to tempt Eve. I also know that the Night and Days of creation were not earth nights and days for the later were not structured to occur until the Fourth Night and Day. According to Revelation it is after the birth of the woman's child that the Serpent's tale sweeps a third of the stars from the heavens.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,23:02) I am taking it in chronological order though it seems to disagree at some points with the words in Job. God chose to dress in light and then planted beam of his chambers in the waters of earth. He then made the clouds his chariot and walks on wind. After that he made the angels and then laid the foundation of the earth. It goes on to say he flooded it.
But you are assuming that the waters, clouds, and winds are earth related.That's an absurd assumption considering that, chronologically speaking, God hadn't yet even laid the foundations of the earth.
But yes, the flooding of the earth would definitely come after these other things, since the passage seems to be in chronological order.
Also, remember that in New Jerusalem, there will be no need for sunlight, since God Himself will light the city. So don't confuse yourself, thinking there is only ONE kind of “light”.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,23:21) My source is: Psalm 118:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 The stone which the builders refused
is become the head stone of the corner.The builders refused it then chose to use it later as a more important stone.
So once again, you're willing to take a use of “cornerstone” from a DIFFERENT scripture, and just superimpose that word OVER the word “foundation” from Job 38? Why do you keep doing that?Here's an analogy of what you've been doing lately:
Scripture A says, “The dog ATE the cat.” And scripture B says, “The dog CHASED the cat.”
You don't LIKE the fact that the dog ATE the cat, and so offer me this proposal: Mike, scripture A doesn't really say the dog ATE the cat, and my proof is this unrelated and different scripture that was written in a completely different context that says the dog only CHASED the cat.
You can't do that, Kerwin. You can't take a teaching where a dog merely CHASED a cat, and use that scripture to OVERWRITE a DIFFERENT scripture where a dog actually ATE a cat.
You have been doing this a lot, lately. What's wrong with your brain that you would think this is acceptable? For example, there are three clear scriptures that say ALL THINGS were created through Jesus. But you don't LIKE that teaching, and so you find a DIFFERENT scripture that was written in a completely different context, about NEW things, and use that second scripture to OVERWRITE the other three.
It's like me ADDING the word “NEW” to Genesis 1:1 – since a DIFFERENT scripture, in a completely DIFFERENT context, speaks about a forthcoming NEW heavens and NEW earth.
But we can't use the teaching about the NEW heavens to OVERWRITE Genesis 1:1 – just because we don't personally LIKE what 1:1 teaches……… can we?
They are TWO DIFFERENT teachings set in TWO DIFFERENT contexts. We can't just swap words from one of them into the other.
So please stop this absurd behavior – and start dealing with what the scripture IN QUESTION says – and not with what a different teaching in a different context says.
Now, Job 38 says “the FOUNDATIONS of the earth”. And FOUNDATIONS are the BEGINNING of the earth. So your idea that the earth was already there, and THEN God laid the foundations of it, is not only unsubstantiated, but also ridiculous.
But just to nip this in the bud once and for all, your “cornerstone” scripture, though unrelated and written in a completely different context, STILL doesn't work for you in this case. Why? Because Jesus ended up being the “cornerstone/foundation stone/first stone” of the thing that was being built after all.
Get it? Even though the builders rejected Jesus as being ANY stone in the temple THEY were building, he ended up being the FIRST stone in the temple that ended up getting built. The one they were building amounted to nothing – as Jesus destroyed it and built a DIFFERENT temple in three days. So there is indeed a temple for the Jews as planned. But it is not the one the scribes and Pharisees built. It is the one God and Jesus built. And Jesus, although rejected by those original builders, is the “cornerstone = foundational stone = first stone laid” of that temple.
One cannot go back in time and add the “cornerstone” to an existing building, as you seem to be suggesting. Because it would never actually be the “cornerstone” in that case, because it wasn't really “the FIRST stone laid”.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 20 2013,13:18) So angels were created at a time that is after the heaven and earth were created but before adam was created.
Ay yi yi!The sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created, Kerwin.
Come on, now. Stop fooling around.
You don't want anyone to eventually think you're SERIOUS about this, do you?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2013,06:18) Wakeup, Quote THIS ONLY MEANS THAT THE ANGELS WERE THERE BEFORE
ADAM. AND GOD'S KINGDOM WAS BEFORE ADAM.
GYou are sounding wiser in this than in your accusation.
Yes, Angels were created before Adam. I did not choose to enter any evidence to pinpoint their creation more exactly than that.
We know that both heaven and earth were created in the beginning.
Genesis 1:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
So angels were created at a time that is after the heaven and earth were created but before adam was created.
The first sin I know Satan commited was to tempt Eve. I also know that the Night and Days of creation were not earth nights and days for the later were not structured to occur until the Fourth Night and Day. According to Revelation it is after the birth of the woman's child that the Serpent's tale sweeps a third of the stars from the heavens.
Kerwin.Quote
You are sounding wiser in this than in your accusation.
Yes, Angels were created before Adam. I did not choose to enter any evidence to pinpoint their creation more exactly than that.YOU SOUNDED ASIF THE EARTH AND GOD'S HEAVEN ARE CREATED THE SAME TIME.
[QUOTE
We know that both heaven and earth were created in the beginning.[/QUOTE.THE WORD BEGINNING SOUNDS THE SAME.
BUT THERE IS A BEGINNING FOR EVERYTHING.Quote
Genesis 1:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..
THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS. OUR SOLAR SYSTEM.
THE COSMOS IS MUCH OLDER.Quote
Genesis 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
So angels were created at a time that is after the heaven and earth were created but before adam was created..
THIS CAN NOT BE: BECAUSE THE ANGELS WERE THERE REJOICING, WHEN THE EARTH WAS CREATED.
Quote
The first sin I know Satan commited was to tempt Eve. I also know that the Night and Days of creation were not earth nights and days for the later were not structured to occur until the Fourth Night and Day. According to Revelation it is after the birth of the woman's child that the Serpent's tale sweeps a third of the stars from the heavens.NOT SO: LUCIFER WAS PREACHING HIS DOCTRINE IN HEAVEN, AND ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS BELIEVED HIM.
THIS PREACHING MUST HAVE TAKEN SOME TIME.
BUT THERE IS NOT MUCH HE CAN DO, BUT ONLY PREACHING.
FOR THEY ARE ALL SPIRIT CREATURES. HE CAN NOT INFLICT PAIN AND SORROW AMONGST THE ANGELS.SO GOD SET A TRAP FOR HIM WHERE HE CAN OPERATE.
GOD CREATED THE EARTH FOR FLESH TO DWELL IN,
SO SATAN CAN PRACTISE WHAT IS IN HIS HEART.wakeup.
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