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Terrarica, that was just coincidence I was reading that chapter tonight.
What is it you are saying? How can it be? I don't know. But I can understand how wicked will be ashes – and bad gone forever so people will be in peace and happiness on the Earth. I'm seeing that now, I never did before. I thought people all just went to Heaven.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2011,08:11) Hi William,
Thank you again for your explanation. So, I think that you believe in the deity of Christ, right? What do you think the Son was before He was manifested? Was He a different person from the Father or even a person at all?Blessings,
Kathi
Hey Sis,
Yes I do, although I do not believe He would ever embrace any worship due to the Father (as the source) however He may receive it in God's stead (as His agent).I believe you meant “before He was incarnated” as I believe that the Son was brought forth from the Father at His manifestation. Prior to His incarnation I believe that Jesus simply acted as the Father's agent in all matters related to His corporeal creation.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (shimmer @ July 13 2011,03:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,14:27) Will any of the “Omnipresent” people address my point? If God is truly omnipresent, then He is everywhere WITHOUT EXCEPTION. If that is the case, God fills up the space that is you and me. And if it is God who occupies the space that is us, then wouldn't we BE God?
It would also mean that God occupies the space that is Satan, and therefore Satan would also BE God.
Any thoughts?
Haha, you say the funniest thing's Mike.Sometimes, maybe, people can't answer your questions simply because they do not KNOW!
It's like asking a Cow in a Paddock to explain the Internet or even how a Car works. It WON'T KNOW!
If the Bible say's God is everywhere, then God is. Somehow!
shimmerQuote If the Bible say's God is everywhere, then God is. Somehow! 23 I am a God nigh at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off. 24 Shall any one hide himself in secret places, and I not see him? Do I not fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.
what you read is a question,
and so it does not means what you think, read it again
WHAT GOD ASK IS THIS ;;DO NOT I FILL ALL THE HEAVEN AND EARTH
?
YES HE DID HE CREATE ALL THE THINGS IN IT,Pierre
Quote (seekingtruth @ July 12 2011,04:48) Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2011,08:11) Hi William,
Thank you again for your explanation. So, I think that you believe in the deity of Christ, right? What do you think the Son was before He was manifested? Was He a different person from the Father or even a person at all?Blessings,
Kathi
Hey Sis,
Yes I do, although I do not believe He would ever embrace any worship due to the Father (as the source) however He may receive it in God's stead (as His agent).I believe you meant “before He was incarnated” as I believe that the Son was brought forth from the Father at His manifestation. Prior to His incarnation I believe that Jesus simply acted as the Father's agent in all matters related to His corporeal creation.
My opinion – Wm
William,
Do you believe that Christ would receive worship that recognized Him as the Son and not the Father? Do you think that is acceptable?Quote I believe you meant “before He was incarnated” as I believe that the Son was brought forth from the Father at His manifestation. Prior to His incarnation I believe that Jesus simply acted as the Father's agent in all matters related to His corporeal creation. Do you think that the Son was always within the Father in some viable way before the Father brought Him forth before creation?
In my opinion, God is all sufficient and always has been to be both the source and agent…God the Father has always had a Son within Him…hidden till it was needed to do the agent work. That would make God = the Father with His Son. Apart from the Son, the Father would be sufficient for being the source but not the agent and with the Son, the Father would be ALL sufficient.
I think one has to be eternal to be deity…true deity.
I believe Jesus is deity as well as His Father.It would be nice to discuss this more with you
Thanks for your reply, Bro!
Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,08:27) Will any of the “Omnipresent” people address my point? If God is truly omnipresent, then He is everywhere WITHOUT EXCEPTION. If that is the case, God fills up the space that is you and me. And if it is God who occupies the space that is us, then wouldn't we BE God?
It would also mean that God occupies the space that is Satan, and therefore Satan would also BE God.
Any thoughts?
I already answered it.God is not a created being and therefore should not be thought of as such.
Quote (seekingtruth @ July 12 2011,03:15) Mike,
As I stated above “I believe that the Father has an awareness of living things throughout creation but He is not “physically” present anywhere in our reality.” otherwise why would I need to be filled with the Holy Spirit, He would already be in me.I believe this line of reasoning is consistent with scripture.
My opinion – Wm
Hi Wm,I also believe what you wrote is in line with scripture. Don't forget the little children though – or Zechariah. Jesus warned us not to lead little ones away from God, for their angels have an audience with God always.
That seems to me that God knows who is leading a child from Him when the angel appointed to watch over that child tells God about it.
In Zechariah, angels are sent throughout the earth to survey its condition and report back to God about it.
You mentioned a camera in my office. I mentioned satellites before with the same intent. Law enforcement officials can follow every move a fugitive makes as he flees across the country, or even the world, through satellites. They know where he stopped for the night, how much gas he bought, even if he used the restroom – all through cameras, computers, and satellites.
So we could say there is nowhere on earth that fugitive could hide from the law, but that doesn't mean the law is “omnipresent”, right?
God can know anything about anyone through His Spirit or other agents. But that doesn't mean God had to leave heaven to know it.
He could also make His presence or power felt the same way without ever leaving heaven.
Wm, I think we see eye to eye on this subject. But did you vote “Omnipresent”? If so, why?
peace,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ July 12 2011,03:28) If the Bible say's God is everywhere, then God is. Somehow!
And if Jesus says God is in heaven, dwelling in unapproachable light, He is, right?Shimmer, I was only asking a question. And for your information, “I don't know” is ALWAYS an acceptable answer.
Btw, what is a “Paddock”?
Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2011,17:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,08:27) If God is truly omnipresent, then He is everywhere WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
I already answered it.God is not a created being and therefore should not be thought of as such.
Kerwin,That is not an answer to my point – at least not that I can see. I KNOW God is not created.
What does that have to do with the fact that “omnipresent” means “everywhere all the time WITHOUT EXCEPTION”?If God is everywhere, then wouldn't everything be God? How could God be filling up every cell and minute space in your body right now without you BEING God?
On the other hand, if there is a spot in the universe that is filled by the being of Kerwin, then that spot is NOT filled by God………unless Kerwin IS God. And if that spot is not filled by God, but by Kerwin, then God is NOT “everywhere all the time”, and therefore NOT “omnipresent”.
That is my logic speaking, backed by the MANY times in scripture God is said to be IN HEAVEN.
You may choose to disagree if you like.
peace,
mikeHi:
Quote Isa 66:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest His Throne is in heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit.
Quote Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
If you have been born again, God dwells within you by His Spirit, but no, He does not dwell within the body of an unbeliever:
Quote Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Quote 1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? God is a living person and with a mind, a will, and emotions, and this is his soul which dwells in heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit, and His thoughts are revealed to us by His Spirit.
Quote 1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 13 2011,19:07) Hi: Quote Isa 66:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest His Throne is in heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit.
Quote Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
If you have been born again, God dwells within you by His Spirit, but no, He does not dwell within the body of an unbeliever:
Quote Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Quote 1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? God is a living person and with a mind, a will, and emotions, and this is his soul which dwells in heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit, and His thoughts are revealed to us by His Spirit.
Quote 1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyif you read your own quote and scriptures you will see I hope that the word spirit means not always the same thing
or is it the same thing all of the time ?
Pierre
Hi Marty,
I agree with your post, except I think we have different understandings of God dwelling “IN” someone. I don't think the Being of God could ever be within a human being.
But I do agree that God CAN BE anywhere and everywhere He wants to be through Spirit OR in Person. But He is not ALWAYS “everywhere all the time”, for He is said to dwell IN HEAVEN.
peace,
mikeMarty
Quote God is a living person and with a mind, a will, and emotions, and this is his soul which dwells in heaven, but he can be everywhere by His Spirit, and His thoughts are revealed to us by His Spirit. Can a whale of 60ton go anywhere ? answer is NO he only can go where his volume AND WHEIGHT allows him to go;right; yes
Isa 66:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest
DO YOU SEE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT GODS TELL US?
Pierre
Kathi,
Quote William,
Do you believe that Christ would receive worship that recognized Him as the Son and not the Father? Do you think that is acceptable?
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Obviously He was worshiped as the Son of God
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
He also allowed people to worship Him, but most of all it had God's approval:
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”As to the Son, scripture does not tell us directly, the most we can do is deduce from what is implied. I believe that He is eternal in some aspects having come forth from the Father, but as our reality had a beginning so I feel that the Son shared in that beginning.
We're told Jesus is the actual image of the Father it seems that the emphasis was more on His being like the Father, then His having been contained within.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (seems fairly clear that Jesus although separate was God) 2 He was with God in the beginning. (beginning of what, not God, he had no beginning, it seems to be saying the beginning of creation).
My Opinion – Wm
Quote Wm, I think we see eye to eye on this subject. But did you vote “Omnipresent”? If so, why? Yes I think we are close but this is probably our biggest difference:
I believe that the Father is outside/over our corporeal realm and the nature of this allows Him to have an awareness through out creation and at least for me that constitutes presence.
As to the angels reporting back I believe that God is using the earth to teach the angels from their observations (kind of like the way He will ask us a question when He already knows the answer).
My opinion – Wm
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,04:47) Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2011,14:50) How can God be in heaven and his house be on earth?
Throughout the OT, God's Temple is said to be where His NAME resides. God doesn't live on earth, but in heaven.Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2011,14:50) I do not know where that post is nor have I read it but I do know what scripture tells me about the Presence of the Lord.
The post where I mentioned my understanding and the presence of the U.S.A. is the last post on page 4.I also mentioned many scriptures that tell where God dwells. I could have also added many more from Jesus himself, who ALWAYS referred to our Father “who is in heaven”. Jesus also looked UP to heaven when addressing God – not DOWN to the earth or OVER at some tree or mountain, or OUT to sea, etc.
Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2011,14:50) Creation exists within the dimensions God set on it while God does not have such limits.
That makes no difference in my mind. If God is truly omnipresent, then He is everywhere all the time. If that is the case, He also exists WITHIN as well as WITHOUT the “dimensions He set on His creation”.Kerwin, imagine your computer. It is plastic and electronics, right? But if God is truly omnipresent, then He fills up the space you think your computer is filling right now. So your computer is made up of God, and therefore IS God.'
Something that IS God cannot share space with something that is NOT God, all the way down to the molecular level and beyond.
One could not say God is ominpresent thinking He is all AROUND US, for that is not what the word means. It means that God is in every minute area of space that we are also in. And since the material that fills up one particular molecule-sized area of space cannot be both “God” AND “not God”, something has to give.
It is simple in my mind that if God is truly EVERYWHERE, then EVERYTHING is God – including you, me, AND your computer.
peace,
mike
Mike,Thank you for letting me no where your previous post is. I will be limited for time for the next several days and may not be able to back to this issue as I have other priorities at this time. I also plan to attend a funeral for my sister in another state in a few days and most likely will not be able to post during that time. God blesh everyone here and so increase each of our understanding of his love and his teachings.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2011,13:00) Hi Marty, I agree with your post, except I think we have different understandings of God dwelling “IN” someone. I don't think the Being of God could ever be within a human being.
But I do agree that God CAN BE anywhere and everywhere He wants to be through Spirit OR in Person. But He is not ALWAYS “everywhere all the time”, for He is said to dwell IN HEAVEN.
peace,
mike
Even as Mikeboll claims that he did not say he could hide from God while chasing round DEMANDING that people show him how God can only be in one place – is it to be noted with this hedge he has come up sith of 'God can be anywhere he wants to be and EVERYWHERE…' it matters not that it be said 'through his Spirit' – you cannot SEPARATE GOD AND HIS SPIRIT… else you say they are seperate entities.
The Spirit of God is his ACTIVE FORCE. it is not SEPARATE FROM HIM.
So, say God, say Holy Spirit.How say you 'The hand of the bride was given to the groom' and think not that the hand of the bride was separated from the body for the giving?
If God can be EVERYWHERE THEN ISTARI IS RIGHT THAT OTHER SPIRITS ARE ALSO EVERYWHERE – For as God is SPIRIT so his Messengers are also Spirits – and Jesus is the image of God so Jesus is also EVERYWHERE.
If, as Mikeboll has been so vehement in the past, that God and Spirits are not EVERYWHERE then it would certainly be true then that one could 'Hide' from God.
I am pleased that Mikeboll has now started walking towards truth by at least saying what he said in the quote.
Just a little while longer and he will be convinced that God is EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME.. as I wrote in another thread 'A man in a brightly lit room with his eyes closed is only fooling himself that he is in the dark'. It is only in his mind that he is in the dark because he chooses to think that just as salvation is ours if we should just open our minds to the Holy Spirit that is with us always – if we choose to allow it into our minds.
Again, it is like serious high tech X-ray and reads our minds and thoughts even when we don't accept it -'Theres no hiding place from the The Father of Creation' (Bob Marley!)
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