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Quote (seekingtruth @ July 25 2011,14:01) Thanks Kathi,
I started this poll out of a desire to determine if I was out of line by refusing to carry on arguments. I really do believe it is wrong to argue endlessly on non-essential issues, but others feel its lazy, cowardly, lacking integrity, etc. so I wanted to see if there are any valid arguments to doing so.Good point on fools, I always liked the saying “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Love you Sis
William,Check out this rule from the Christian Chat Forum:
“No one is required to answer your questions, or respond in anyway to your messages. In most cases others will respond to messages posted, but nobody is required to. Don't demand other members of this website to answer your post. No one here owes you anything.“
http://www.christianchatforum.com/info/rules.shtml
KJ
Thank you to all who have responded it is appreciated. Truth is obtained only by revelation from the Holy Spirit, we should both seek and share it. I guess if we had all truth and wisdom we would “put our opponents to silence” & “from that day on no one dared to ask him (us) any more questions.” but I'm lacking in both. So the best I can do is lay it out the best I can, then let God work to reveal truth to the one needing it (either the opponent or myself).
Thanks – Wm
Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,00:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2011,23:23) Seeking Truth, Learning to determine what is and what is not a 'non-essential issue” is part of seeking the truth.
kerwinZec 4:10 “Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
Mt 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.”
Mt 18:5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me
Lk 7:47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”
Lk 16:10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.
WHAT IS ESSENTIAL ? KERWIN.
Pierre
Pierre,That is for you to determine by being led by God.
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,17:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,00:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2011,23:23) Seeking Truth, Learning to determine what is and what is not a 'non-essential issue” is part of seeking the truth.
kerwinZec 4:10 “Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
Mt 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.”
Mt 18:5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me
Lk 7:47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”
Lk 16:10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.
WHAT IS ESSENTIAL ? KERWIN.
Pierre
Pierre,That is for you to determine by being led by God.
kerwinit is the same if you would have told someone here is a bible see if you find something you can use in it ;NO?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,06:19) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,17:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,00:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2011,23:23) Seeking Truth, Learning to determine what is and what is not a 'non-essential issue” is part of seeking the truth.
kerwinZec 4:10 “Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
Mt 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.”
Mt 18:5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me
Lk 7:47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”
Lk 16:10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.
WHAT IS ESSENTIAL ? KERWIN.
Pierre
Pierre,That is for you to determine by being led by God.
kerwinit is the same if you would have told someone here is a bible see if you find something you can use in it ;NO?
Pierre
Pierre,You are correct if you understood me to mean that unless you are led by God my words will have no effect and if you are then Scripture is enough and my words are not needed.
kerwin
is there something wrong in your comment;;?
Quote Pierre, You are correct if you understood me to mean that unless you are led by God my words will have no effect and if you are then Scripture is enough and my words are needed.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,07:59) kerwin is there something wrong in your comment;;?
Quote Pierre, You are correct if you understood me to mean that unless you are led by God my words will have no effect and if you are then Scripture is enough and my words are needed.
Pierre
Pierre,There was since I had dropped the “not” before “needed”. That is corrected now. Thank you!
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,23:00) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,07:59) kerwin is there something wrong in your comment;;?
Quote Pierre, You are correct if you understood me to mean that unless you are led by God my words will have no effect and if you are then Scripture is enough and my words are needed.
Pierre
Pierre,There was since I had dropped the “not” before “needed”. That is corrected now. Thank you!
Kerwin
Posted elsewhere:
Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.Just a joke not in reference to anyone here.
Wiliam ,
When someone would started to argue and I felt as if I was placed on the defencive then I would find myself in anger. I found that anger leads to sin when you least exspect it.
An argument should stop when it begins, I know of a song called “climbing up the Gospel ladder”. Each step you take leads to another higher plain of understanding. I might not be on your plain as of yet, so this is why we must consider our first love.
Hi Everyone,
I couldn't vote, because the choice I would have made wasn't on there, which is…
Doctrine should be explained thoroughly, persisting *only* until the other person fully understands.
*Only* is contingent upon believing that the other person really does fully understand what has been fully explained.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgFor All: An argument should stop whenever one party begins to point the finger, degrade, call names, make fun, say degrading things to the other party for a stand that they take with their doctrine. I don't think arguing, as in disagreeing, is ever reason to stop. The effort exerted is to prove, protect, or preserve one's beliefs! That is never a reason for someone to make degrading remarks, DIRECTED AT the other party. You are….You never….You only….You have…etc.! None of us know all the truth. We are all learning. You can learn from another persons errors too. If someone says to me, I totally disagree with that doctrine I think it should be this or that…! That doesn't bother me at all. Telling me I'm stupid or need glasses, or are of the devil, et.al., any personal attacks destroy the possibility of learning from one another. Everyone has opinions, lets use them and analyze each statement for truth. Disagreement teaches truth!! IMO, TK
If I could edit I would change
Quote Disagreement teaches truth!! to “Disagreements many times expose the truth from the error”!
Happyman, Ed, & TK,
You three summed up how I feel, once I have laid out my argument as best I can and an opponent is asking further questions, not to understand, but for ammunition to formulate a response, it has gone far enough. Along that same line; once someone reaches the point that love is no longer his/her motivation and they begin to respond from the flesh, then she/he is acting foolish (I've done it too), and we are told not to argue with a fool.My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 07 2011,05:21) once I have laid out my argument as best I can and an opponent is asking further questions, not to understand, but for ammunition to formulate a response, it has gone far enough.
I disagree. You can ask me as many questions in as many different ways as you would like to. If my answers are giving you “ammunition to formulate a response”, and the response you formulate from my HONEST and DIRECT answers helps to show that I've been mistaken, then Hallelujah! Because I don't want to be the ostrich with its head in the sand or the monkey plugging its ears saying, “Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you! I'm right and you can't tell me I'm not!”Too many people here want to spout their beliefs, but then run away or cry foul when that belief is systematically dismantled, and reponses are requested for each individual part of the belief.
One should be willing to stand and defend their beliefs, showing due cause and scripture FOR that belief, and also addressing ANY and EVERY point an opponent offers as rebuttal – no matter how trivial those questions might seem to him or her at that time. They should also be willing to adjust their belief in the light of scriptural evidence.
For one to say, “I'm not going to answer your question because you will just use those answers as ammunition to prove my belief to be flawed” makes me believe that one is not really interested in the real TRUTH of the matter in the first place. They are only interested in pushing THEIR WAY of thinking on others, with no interest in actually defending “their way” when confronted.
What are those people afraid of? Having to adjust their own beliefs so that they better align with scripture?
Is that really something to be FEARED? Is it something to get angry and defensive about? mike
Here is a confrontation that Jesus encountered with satan and this is how Jesus handled the 'prove it' demands of satan:
Matt 4:1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. 3And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”
5Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’;
and
‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”7Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”
8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” 10Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” 11Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.
Could Jesus command the stones to become bread? Yes. But He didn't give in to the demands of satan. We need to discern who or what is behind the questions that are asked here or the comments that are written. Not every question or comment needs to be responded to according to the demands of the asker. It is good to remember that our battle is not against flesh and blood:
Eph 6: 10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, 15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; 16in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, 19and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
We need to put on our armour as we respond to the questions here and let the Lord lead us through His Spirit as to whether we need to bother with the questions or not. One of the schemes of satan was to ask questions and ask for proof (Jesus) or create doubt (Eve) in what we heard from the Lord.
Kathi
Hi Kathi,
Did you forget how many times Jesus said the words “IT IS WRITTEN……………” as an answer? He said it three times to Satan, didn't he? And countless other times throughout his teachings.
That is also what I try to do. For example, I say “IT IS WRITTEN that we are to worship Jehovah our God, and serve Him ONLY”.
And then certain others here try to pretend those words are not to be obeyed, or that Jesus was somehow including himself into the “HIM” in that scripture.
So if I ask questions in an attempt break down those peoples' fantasies, are my questions to be ignored because the person I'm asking has deemed my questions unworthy to be “bothered with”?
I say either be prepared to answer every question that is asked of you (within reason of course), or don't bother spouting your beliefs here in the first place.
But then again, it is not MY site.
peace,
mike
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