what truth do we know for sure ?

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2012,05:03)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 20 2012,22:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,16:33)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 19 2012,08:52)

Ed:

Col.1:21….and you, were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind…BY WICKED WORKS….but now UN-blameable and UN-reprovable in his sight…if we continue in the FAITH!!

Hi Tim,

Is this not what I keep telling you?

Quote (Ed J @ 1)

Sin is errant behavior caused by errant thoughts.

God bless
Ed J

Ed: Wicked works are works by man presented to God like a sacrifice for salvation. Works unto salvation is ''SIN''! Errant thinking.

Doing works to show love is wonderful….IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SALVATION IN CHRIST!!

You have made 'Idols' of the works of your hands. You have to leave faith behind to present your works as your sacrifice for sin.
You may not think that is what you are doing but it is!

GOD MADE US WHAT WE ARE THROUGH THE CLEANSING, WASHING, WORDS OF SPIRIT FROM JESUS THE CHRIST. BELIEVERS ARE WHAT GOD SAYS THEY ARE.

Men who work for credit/wages to present to God for their salvation have denied the salvation through Christ Jesus!! Your choice, TK

Hi Tim,

What exactly are you accusing me of doing?

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Tim?

January 23, 2012 at 11:32 am#273954

Participant

Ed:…..IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE WORK OF YOUR OWN HANDS TO AID OR DESTROY THE SALVATION PROVIDED THROUGH CHRIST JESUS YOU HAVE DENIED HIS TOTAL WORK…..''FOR'' US!!…..FAITH IN WHAT JESUS DID FOR US, IS THE ONLY FORM OF PURIFICATION UNTO GOD THERE IS!

Think honestly about it! Your salvation has nothing to do with you! You didn't do anything to earn it! As a matter of fact you could not do enough good deeds or good works in your lifetime to purchase the salvation Jesus gave to us all…..to be accepted as perfect unto God, by FAITH!!

The reciprocal truth would be there is also nothing you can do bad to separate you from God…..except..disbelieve that Jesus did it and gave it to you….Faith is the ONLY GRADING SCALE SINCE GRACE!!!….WAKE UP!!….YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO EFFECT YOUR SALVATION PACKAGE EXCEPT BELIEVE YOU SOMEHOW FALL SHORT OF WHAT IT DID FOR YOU…..ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING GRADED BY WORKS,DEEDS, OR ANY KIND OF EFFORT ON YOUR PART COULD YOU BELIEVE YOU WERE SHORT OF THE GOAL!!

THE WORKS AND DEEDS UNTO GOD TODAY ARE……BELIEVE WHAT JESUS DID ''FOR'' US!! DID(ALREADY) ''FOR'' US!!…..FAITH ALONE IN HIM!….NO PURIFICATION ANY OTHER WAY…..! TK

January 23, 2012 at 12:00 pm#273960

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 23 2012,20:55)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2012,05:03)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 20 2012,22:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2012,16:33)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 19 2012,08:52)

Ed:

Col.1:21….and you, were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind…BY WICKED WORKS….but now UN-blameable and UN-reprovable in his sight…if we continue in the FAITH!!

Hi Tim,

Is this not what I keep telling you?

Quote (Ed J @ 1)

Sin is errant behavior caused by errant thoughts.

God bless
Ed J

Ed: Wicked works are works by man presented to God like a sacrifice for salvation. Works unto salvation is ''SIN''! Errant thinking.

Doing works to show love is wonderful….IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SALVATION IN CHRIST!!

You have made 'Idols' of the works of your hands. You have to leave faith behind to present your works as your sacrifice for sin.
You may not think that is what you are doing but it is!

GOD MADE US WHAT WE ARE THROUGH THE CLEANSING, WASHING, WORDS OF SPIRIT FROM JESUS THE CHRIST. BELIEVERS ARE WHAT GOD SAYS THEY ARE.

Men who work for credit/wages to present to God for their salvation have denied the salvation through Christ Jesus!! Your choice, TK

Hi Tim,

What exactly are you accusing me of doing?

Ed J

Tim?

Hi Tim,

You still haven't answered the question of …what do you say I was doing?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm#274005

Participant

TIM ?

January 23, 2012 at 11:29 pm#274016

Participant

Tim?

January 24, 2012 at 12:33 pm#274087

Participant

Pierre and Ed:

I will certainly try. I feel like you or anyone else that believes they have anything to do with their salvation in Christ Jesus they would be in error/sin!

I believe the package deal of total salvation is a perfect/all-inclusive, perfecting package of forgiveness, cleansing, making whole, worthiness, acceptance, righteousness, physical healing, spiritual healing, ultimately perfect pureness given freely to human beings, making those that accept that truth, by FAITH alone, perfected sons of God.

We accept that perfection package provided by Jesus and live in the love poured through it, as it gives to those who continue in Gods love, learning and growing unto the fulness of Jesus Christ.

Before Jesus, the truth, man was lost, in mind, from God. His thoughts were of death and evil. There was needed an entire washing and cleansing of the minds of humanity, full of old religious thinking, wrongful or sinful, errant thinking! Evil, destructive thinking. We were lost in sin/darkness & our minds were fuzzy as to God. We didn't know the truth! We staggered like drunk men looking everywhere for God. Drunk with religious deception and lies of evil, darkness. Apart from the truth/light of God. Working and trying and doing anything we could come up with to please God or pacify Gods anger!

All was cured and made perfect in Gods eyes by Jesus the Christ. Now is the day of the lord…..Now is the day of rest for those in Christ. Rest from all those sin works. The yoke of Jesus is lite/light! Take his yoke upon you…his burden is lite/light! Follow Jesus and there is peace and rest for the weary workers for salvation. WE ENTER INTO HIS WORKS AND HIS REST…THE WORK IS DONE!

HERE IS THE KEY FOR ALL:……THE PACKAGE IS ACCEPTED AND INITIATED BY FAITH! YOU CANNOT ADD TO IT….NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT….IT STANDS FOREVER FINISHED!…..ONLY BELIEVE, JESUS DID IT ALL!

THIS IS MY FAITH STAND FROM JESUS….EVEN IF I DON'T DO ANOTHER THING IN MY LIFE! IMO, TK

January 24, 2012 at 1:37 pm#274094

Participant

Hi Tim,

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
I say that I no-longer commit sin, so then, this
somehow to you means the opposite; is this correct?

Plus you say there is NOTHING you can do to separate from God,
yet you somehow believe that I have also done this; do I understand you correctly now?

Is this what you are accusing me of doing?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 24, 2012 at 3:56 pm#274103

Participant

Quote

I will certainly try. I feel like you or anyone else that believes they have anything to do with their salvation in Christ Jesus they would be in error/sin!

We accept that perfection package provided by Jesus and live in the love poured through it, as it gives to those who continue in Gods love, learning and growing unto the fulness of Jesus Christ.

Jas 2:21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
Jas 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

MT 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
MT 7:20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
LK 3:8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

JN 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

LK 5:5 Simon answered and said, “ Master, we worked hard all night and caught nothing, but I will do as You say and let down the nets.”
JN 13:15 “For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you.

YOUR FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD,

January 24, 2012 at 5:47 pm#274109

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 24 2012,22:33)

Pierre and Ed:

I will certainly try. I feel like you or anyone else that believes they have anything to do with their salvation in Christ Jesus they would be in error/sin!

We accept that perfection package provided by Jesus and live in the love poured through it, as it gives to those who continue in Gods love, learning and growing unto the fulness of Jesus Christ.

HERE IS THE KEY FOR ALL:……THE PACKAGE IS ACCEPTED AND INITIATED BY FAITH! YOU CANNOT ADD TO IT….NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT….IT STANDS FOREVER FINISHED!…..ONLY BELIEVE, JESUS DID IT ALL!

THIS IS MY FAITH STAND FROM JESUS….EVEN IF I DON'T DO ANOTHER THING IN MY LIFE! IMO, TK

Tim…………You have posted it right brother it is no longer us that work , but God who works (IN) us (both) to “WILL” and (DO) His good pleasure. It is no longer us but the Christos dwelling in us that does the works. Paul plainly said by the works of the Law no Flesh shall be Justified in his site. What they are not understanding that we do demonstrate the Fruits of the Spirit in our live but that is GOD doing it through us , It is not a credit we can take to “OURSELVES” as If it were from “OURSELVES”, becasue that would be a lie. How can we take credit for what is being do (IN) us by the Hand of GOD, WE have put our WILL'S to death and say not “OUR” WILL be done But “THY” WILL be done. The fruits of the Spirit (ARE FROM THE SPIRIT) not from US. But the SELF WILLED will never except this as they continue to try to establish themselves and build there OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, Never yielding to the FINISHED WORK and SALVATION (IN) JESUS Christ, these indeed are weary worker who have no peace. WE are complete in Christ Jesus and we through that same spirit have peace and rest from God. Just as it say for he that believes has entered into that rest.

Heb 4:10……> for he that is entered into (HIS REST). he also has (CEASED) from his (OWN WORKS), as God did from His.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

January 24, 2012 at 5:57 pm#274110

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2012,10:47)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 24 2012,22:33)

Pierre and Ed:

I will certainly try. I feel like you or anyone else that believes they have anything to do with their salvation in Christ Jesus they would be in error/sin!

We accept that perfection package provided by Jesus and live in the love poured through it, as it gives to those who continue in Gods love, learning and growing unto the fulness of Jesus Christ.

HERE IS THE KEY FOR ALL:……THE PACKAGE IS ACCEPTED AND INITIATED BY FAITH! YOU CANNOT ADD TO IT….NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT….IT STANDS FOREVER FINISHED!…..ONLY BELIEVE, JESUS DID IT ALL!

THIS IS MY FAITH STAND FROM JESUS….EVEN IF I DON'T DO ANOTHER THING IN MY LIFE! IMO, TK

Heb 4:10……> for he that is entered into (HIS REST). he also has (CEASED) from his (OWN WORKS), as God did from His.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

gene

Quote

Heb 4:10……> for he that is entered into (HIS REST). he also has (CEASED) from his (OWN WORKS), as God did from His.

Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
Heb 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

yes Gene;Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

Jas 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

you still can not read and join the blind,

Pierre

January 24, 2012 at 7:57 pm#274113

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Terrica………That effort is to enter into that “REST” and how do we it ” THROUGH FAITH” In the finished Work of Jesus CHRIST, not “OUR WORKS”, or haven't you also read this, “NOT” of “WORKS of the LAW” LEST any BOAST For the LAW is for the sinner and the “UNGODLY”. You seem to be still (UNDER THE WORKS OF THE LAW) so you are unable to accept your salvation by The GRACE of GOD. “YOUR” OWN This might Help you,

Joh 5:24………..> Verily, verily, I say into you, He that Hears my word, (AND) believes on him that sent me, (now pay attention Pierre) “HAS” EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into condemnation; (notice again Pierre) but (IS) “PASSED” from death unto “LIFE”.

Pierre, did you see all the Past Tense expressions used there, like (HAS EVERLASTING LIFE) and (IS PASSED).

You can try to “EARN” you Salvation and EXCEPTION by GOD all you want it will NOT Work. We “ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT GRACE IS NOT OF OURSELVES so say Paul. I believe this and so does TIM .

It surprises me Pierre how little you truly understand about your salvation , now no where are me or Tim saying there is not work because by the spirit of God , Good works are produced in our Live , It just who is causing and doing it , is the question. Is it from the “SELF” or From the Spirit of the Living GOD that abides (IN) all who Have His Spirit (intellect) (IN) them. No one here is saying that good works are not “produced” in a Christians Life< Just what or who is doing it . Is the question

peace and love……………………………..gene

January 25, 2012 at 12:45 am#274176

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2012,12:57)

Pierre, did you see all the Past Tense expressions used there, like (HAS EVERLASTING LIFE) and (IS PASSED).

You can try to “EARN” you Salvation and EXCEPTION by GOD all you want it will NOT Work. We “ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT GRACE IS NOT OF OURSELVES so say Paul. I believe this and so does TIM .

It surprises me Pierre how little you truly understand about your salvation , now no where are me or Tim saying there is not because of the spirit of God , Good works are produced in our Live , It just who is causing and doing it , is the question. Is it from the “SELF” or From the Spirit of the Living GOD that abides (IN) all who Have His Spirit (intellect) (IN) them. No one here is saying that good works are not “produced” in a Christians Life< Just what or who is doing it . Is the question

peace and love……………………………..gene

gene

truly you are out of reach to truth

Pierre

January 25, 2012 at 11:48 am#274299

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2012,05:57)

Pierre, did you see all the Past Tense expressions used there, like (HAS EVERLASTING LIFE) and (IS PASSED).

You can try to “EARN” you Salvation and EXCEPTION by GOD all you want it will NOT Work. We “ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT GRACE IS NOT OF OURSELVES so say Paul. I believe this and so does TIM .

peace and love……………………………..gene

Gene:

So beautifully and eloquently written my brother, much love, TK

January 25, 2012 at 12:04 pm#274301

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 24 2012,23:37)

Hi Tim,

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
I say that I no-longer commit sin, so then, this
somehow to you means the opposite; is this correct?

Plus you say there is NOTHING you can do to separate from God,
yet you somehow believe that I have also done this; do I understand you correctly now?

Is this what you are accusing me of doing?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Tim?

January 25, 2012 at 1:18 pm#274306

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 24 2012,23:37)

Hi Tim,

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
I say that I no-longer commit sin, so then, this
somehow to you means the opposite; is this correct?

Plus you say there is NOTHING you can do to separate from God,
yet you somehow believe that I have also done this; do I understand you correctly now?

Is this what you are accusing me of doing?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed: I think maybe the keyword here in your post is “commit” sin!

All sin in my opinion starts in thought processing of mind and heart. What man believes is acceptable in his heart, he does, no problem. Its what a man thinks is bad or wrong against God that, if done, judgment arises in the heart.
If a man judges an action as ''bad'' or ''wrong'' against God, and then does the action he self-condemns with sin/error/darkness wrong thinking. The more laws or rules bad things he does the more darkness covers the truth. The light of truth begins to dwindle in his heart. Hence the necessity of salvation to wash away all the “wrong judgments” errant thinking or “sin”!

I have said before and here again….I don't believe the “sin” of mankind referred to in the Bible was “actions”! It was a dark/lie that when believed, led to sin/darkness in all. Sin was a God/Man(Adam) recognizing he had lost some of God within! In truth he had 'blocked' half of the light of God with darkness/untruth. The true, original sin was a breach of love from the heart of man. Thinking incorrectly and thereby self-condemning oneself as wrong was mans original sin.

It was mans original free-will choice to accept the knowledge of ''evil'', along with “good”! The belief of that knowledge created “sin” or 'an error of thinking' in his heart! Evil was a lie…not of the truth of God. Accepting evil as though true created error, “sin” thinking. It was the thoughts and feelings created from the acceptance of evils' existence! That accepted choice caused man to instantly fear any further separation from life. Adam committed half of his pure faith connection to God….to two gods!

Now, any form of judgment against or condemnation one puts on himself OR OTHERS, creates a mental blockage of impurity, darkness, wrong mental thinking, etc.! Remember there is “NO CONDEMNATION IN CHRIST'' so if one feels ''condemned'' unto God, FOR ANYTHING, he has put it on himself and is partially separated from the light of God.

I believe I can do anything without condemnation! I am free because I am not being judged. I have already been judged by Jesus, the word of God, unto perfection. Not based on anything I do or don't do!!!!!! Others can set their own laws unto themselves to follow which is fine but if you set a law unto yourself, you must not break it or face sin blockage in your heart of wrong doing, blocking Gods love/power.

If Jesus set you free you are free indeed! Bless you Ed. These are my thoughts. TK

I have always thought you considered yourself under the law of Moses…but I am just sharing what I believe, not condemning your way of belief. If I am wrong, please forgive me! Thanks

January 25, 2012 at 1:29 pm#274307

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2012,03:47)

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 24 2012,22:33)

Pierre and Ed:

I will certainly try. I feel like you or anyone else that believes they have anything to do with their salvation in Christ Jesus they would be in error/sin!

We accept that perfection package provided by Jesus and live in the love poured through it, as it gives to those who continue in Gods love, learning and growing unto the fulness of Jesus Christ.

HERE IS THE KEY FOR ALL:……THE PACKAGE IS ACCEPTED AND INITIATED BY FAITH! YOU CANNOT ADD TO IT….NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT….IT STANDS FOREVER FINISHED!…..ONLY BELIEVE, JESUS DID IT ALL!

THIS IS MY FAITH STAND FROM JESUS….EVEN IF I DON'T DO ANOTHER THING IN MY LIFE! IMO, TK

Heb 4:10……> for he that is entered into (HIS REST). he also has (CEASED) from his (OWN WORKS), as God did from His.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

Gene: Thanks again for your eloquent writing full of grace and power and love. I'm am again filled with loving spirit from you. God bless you in all you do. Much love, TK

I know we don't see everything eye to eye but the basics are there. I don't see eye to eye with Ed or Pierre but I learn much from them as knowledgeable men of God. I love,….love! I know you do too. Peace my brother!

January 25, 2012 at 5:16 pm#274318

Participant

Quote

HERE IS THE KEY FOR ALL:……THE PACKAGE IS ACCEPTED AND INITIATED BY FAITH! YOU CANNOT ADD TO IT….NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT….IT STANDS FOREVER FINISHED!…..ONLY BELIEVE, JESUS DID IT ALL!

THIS IS MY FAITH STAND FROM JESUS….EVEN IF I DON'T DO ANOTHER THING IN MY LIFE! IMO, TK

Jas 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Jas 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Jas 2:16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder

Jas 2:20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Jas 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

it does not matter if what your understanding amounts to, if it is not written within the spirit of Christ it is a lie ,

Pierre

January 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm#274488