what truth do we know for sure ?

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2011,20:39)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 09 2011,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2011,20:27) edj Quote PIERRE, Then “The Word” of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; (Jer.1:4-5) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) is this your prove of the preexistence of Jeremiah ? Pierre PIERRE, Do you say it means something else, if so what? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj Jer 1:4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Jer 1:6 “Ah, Sovereign LORD,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am only a child.” Jer 1:7 But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am only a child.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. Jer 1:8 Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the LORD. Jer 1:9 Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “Now, I have put my words in your mouth. Jer 1:10 See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.” Can God look in the future ? can God with his power do what it take to do and accomplish his will ?if so done to certain individual would that mean that what happen to one happen automatically to all ?Jeremiah was to me a good example of Christ to come and lead the nations of the world ,but this is my view and understanding , Pierre

PIERRE,

WOW, that is the same thing that the non-preexesters say about Jesus;
looks like you have something in common with them; aye?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[ftk]

Mike: Part of your previous quote:

Revelation 20
12 And I saw [the ''dead''], great and small, standing before the throne, and [books were opened]. [Another book was opened], which is the book of life. [The dead were judged] according to what they had done as recorded in [the books]. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up (the dead that were in them), and [each person was judged according to what he had done]. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The “dead” (not those alive in Christ) will be judged according to all his little works and deeds and efforts to be perfect when the only way to perfection in God is by faith that Jesus did all the works for us and gave it to us….by faith! Thats how I see it! TK

I will stick to what the scriptures teach, Tim.

peace,
mike

[ftk]

Mike: Part of your previous quote should have been in the post above. Sorry!

Revelation 20
12 And I saw [the ''dead''], great and small, standing before the throne, and [books were opened]. [Another book was opened], which is the book of life. [The dead were judged] according to what they had done as recorded in [the books]. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up (the dead that were in them), and [each person was judged according to what he had done]. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The “dead” (not those alive in Christ) will be judged according to all his little works and deeds and efforts to be perfect when the only way to perfection in God is by faith that Jesus did all the works for us and gave it to us….by faith! Thats how I see it! TK
.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 09 2011,03:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2011,20:39) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 09 2011,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2011,20:27) edj Quote PIERRE, Then “The Word” of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; (Jer.1:4-5) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) is this your prove of the preexistence of Jeremiah ? Pierre PIERRE, Do you say it means something else, if so what? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj Jer 1:4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Jer 1:6 “Ah, Sovereign LORD,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am only a child.” Jer 1:7 But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am only a child.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. Jer 1:8 Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the LORD. Jer 1:9 Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “Now, I have put my words in your mouth. Jer 1:10 See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.” Can God look in the future ? can God with his power do what it take to do and accomplish his will ?if so done to certain individual would that mean that what happen to one happen automatically to all ?Jeremiah was to me a good example of Christ to come and lead the nations of the world ,but this is my view and understanding , Pierre PIERRE, WOW, that is the same thing that the non-preexesters say about Jesus; looks like you have something in common with them; aye? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

how come you did not answer the questions I have left unanswered ??

but your coment is false but it is in your likness,right ??

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 08 2011,04:09)

The “dead” (not those alive in Christ) will be judged according to all his little works and deeds and efforts to be perfect………..

Hi Tim,

Then how is it that some of those judged will go off into everlasting life, and others to everlasting destruction? If they are ALL “not alive in Christ”, then why should some live forever?

Also, I await your response to the 8th post on page 31.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 07 2011,23:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2011,09:48) Ed, Do you believe it is Jesus Christ who speaks to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3? Hi Mike, That appears to be what the text is saying; please proceed.

I've proceeded in the “Proof that Jesus is the Word” thread. I'll look for your response over there.

[terraricca]

edj ,Mike

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

from God to Christ ,from Christ to the Angel ,from the Angel to John from John to all of US

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Right you are, Pierre.

[ftk]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2011,08:59)

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 08 2011,04:09) The “dead” (not those alive in Christ) will be judged according to all his little works and deeds and efforts to be perfect……….. Hi Tim, Then how is it that some of those judged will go off into everlasting life, and others to everlasting destruction?  If they are ALL “not alive in Christ”, then why should some live forever? Also, I await your response to the 8th post on page 31. peace, mike

Hey Mike: First let me work on post 8 on page 31…..you said….

Revelation 2
4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your [first love]. 5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and [do the things you did at first]. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

….I BELIEVE THAT IN THE EXACT SAME WAY AS PAUL CHASTISED THE GALATIONS 3:1… FOR….TURNING BACK TO WORKS FROM FAITH…..THE MOST DEADLY SEED OF THAT TIME AND NOW…. THAT DESTROYS THE WORK OF JESUS…. IS A MAN TRYING TO WORK OR DO SOMETHING HIMSELF FOR PERFECTION OR CLEANSING!! THE TRUTH OF GOD THROUGH JESUS IS ACCEPTED AND ENACTED BY FAITH, ALONE. JESUS DID THE WORK….ALL SALVATION IS BY FAITH IN WHAT HE DID AND GAVE! THEN HE SAID TURN BACK AROUND FROM THAT WORKS DOCTRINE OR YOU WILL LOOSE WHAT YOU HAD BY FAITH!!

Jesus said these words to the church in Ephesus……………AFTER they had accepted him as their Lord and Savior. Why would they still need to repent from [actions] Christ saw as unfavorable AFTER they had already been saved and given eternal life?….FOLLOWING PREVIOUS RELIGIOUS RITUALS OR WASHINGS OR SABBATH DAYS OR TITHING OR ANY FORM OF LAWS FOR PERFECTION UNTO GOD!

Tim, read what Jesus says to the rest of the churches in Revelation. There is no indication that the eternal salvation of these believers in Christ was a done deal – just because they said “I believe”. Even these fine believers were warned that if they didn't [alter the actions]…PHYSICAL ATTEMPTS AT PURITY OR BETTERMENT…. that were displeasing to Jesus, bad things were going to happen to them. THE ONLY SALVATION IN TRUTH IS BY FAITH. IF ONE BEGINS TO TURN BACK TO WORKING OUT THEIR SALVATION THEY NO LONGER BELIEVE AND GO BACK TO SIN AND DEATH.

THE OTHER QUESTION:

Then how is it that some of those judged will go off into everlasting life, and others to everlasting destruction? If they are ALL “not alive in Christ”, then why should some live forever?

THERE ARE TWO JUDGMENTS: ONE JUDGMENT BASED ON ONES PERFORMANCE, WORK, DEEDS, EFFORTS FOR GOODNESS!……AND ONE BY FAITH IN WHAT JESUS SAID AND DID!…..THE DEAD(IN THEIR TRESPASSES AND SIN) ARE JUDGED FROM THE BOOKS…….BY THEIR WORKS…….IS SIN AND DEATH!

THOSE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE HAVE ALREADY BEEN JUDGED…..LIFE IN CHRIST…..LIFE ONLY…..ETERNAL LIFE!….WHEN YOU ACCEPTED THE WORDS OF GOD FROM JESUS THAT YOU ARE PERFECT UNTO ALL SALVATION…..THAT WAS YOUR JUDGMENT! IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THAT FAITH THERE IS NO FURTHER JUDGMENT.

These are my beliefs and opinions of the scriptures. God bless you as we test them. TK

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 09 2011,04:53)

THOSE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE HAVE ALREADY BEEN JUDGED…..LIFE IN CHRIST…..LIFE ONLY…..ETERNAL LIFE!….WHEN YOU ACCEPTED THE WORDS OF GOD FROM JESUS THAT YOU ARE PERFECT UNTO ALL SALVATION…..THAT WAS YOUR JUDGMENT! IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THAT FAITH THERE IS NO FURTHER JUDGMENT.

Revelation 20
Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

It seems to me that you think ONLY the “bad” people will be judged at this time.  But that is not what the scripture says. Tim, ALL will rise in the resurrection to be judged – the good along with the bad. The good will be judged favorably, and go off into everlasting life. The bad will be judged unfavorably, and be thrown into the lake of fire, which is everlasting destruction.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 09 2011,04:53)

….I BELIEVE THAT IN THE EXACT SAME WAY AS PAUL CHASTISED THE GALATIONS 3:1… FOR….TURNING BACK TO WORKS FROM FAITH…..THE MOST DEADLY SEED OF THAT TIME AND NOW…. THAT DESTROYS THE WORK OF JESUS….

Okay, so what you are clearly saying is that EVEN AFTER I've accepted Jesus, I can STILL spread a deadly seed by turning back to works, right?  What if I do that, Tim?  Will I still have everlasting life just by accepting Jesus – even if I turn back to works unrepentently?

[ftk]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 10 2011,13:01)

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 09 2011,04:53) ….I BELIEVE THAT IN THE EXACT SAME WAY AS PAUL CHASTISED THE GALATIONS 3:1… FOR….TURNING BACK TO WORKS FROM FAITH…..THE MOST DEADLY SEED OF THAT TIME AND NOW…. THAT DESTROYS THE WORK OF JESUS…. Okay, so what you are clearly saying is that EVEN AFTER I've accepted Jesus, I can STILL spread a deadly seed by turning back to works, right?  What if I do that, Tim?  Will I still have everlasting life just by accepting Jesus – even if I turn back to works unrepentently?

Mike: Oh, no, you are absolutely right! Accepting the saving grace or salvation package of Jesus by faith is the only way to be in Christ. By faith are we saved, not by works lest boasting.

If a person turns to or believes in works or deeds or any type of man made effort…. to produce his perfection in God…. he is lost in “sin” thinking. There is no salvation by efforts of man. If he turns from that “sin” thinking based on efforts, to accepting the gift of the sacrifice of Jesus, then he must “believe” his sin is removed or taken away forever.

To be perfect one must believe God has made him perfect through the words given by Jesus.

Works and deeds….. DON'T GET YOU SAVED AND THEY DON'T TAKE AWAY YOUR SALVATION……Union with God is by faith alone, that Jesus paved the way for us. We must “repent” or “turn from” the beliefs that man made efforts have anything to do with the salvation and perfection bought and paid for by Jesus!! Its done, Jesus did it, believe it and you walk in it!

Part of everlasting life is knowing you are perfect without doing a thing….its a gift from Christ Jesus. You don't pay for a gift. You are grateful and thankful for the gift….but you do not pay or do something for it.

You can't be “in Christ” and “sin” because “sin” is something you believe you have that separates you from union with God. If you believe Christ has taken “sin” away by his sacrifice then there is no more “sin” thinking in you!! IMO, TK

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 10 2011,05:26)

You can't be “in Christ” and “sin” because “sin” is something you believe you have that separates you from union with God. If you believe Christ has taken “sin” away by his sacrifice then there is no more “sin” thinking in you!!

But I don't believe that. I believe God offered up His only begotten Son as an atoning sacrifice for the sin we humans have no choice but to commit. Because sin entered the world through one man, and all men subsequently have sin.

1 John 1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Are you saying that I won't have everlasting life because I won't fool myself into claiming to be sin-free after accepting Jesus as my Lord?

[ftk]

Mike: The reason we seem to disagree on the ''sin” subject, is that I don't see “sin” as something you do or don't do! In truth I believe sin is a personally applied, self judged, self inflicted mental attitude of condemnation for something a man believes he has done or not done, or said or not said! That man[himself] has then judged, as a sin, something he believes is sin, that

separates our perfect union with God! This is ''self judgment'', instead of judgment by ''the word'' of God!! Religion has taught us to believe its the “works or deeds” we do, or don't do, that are “sin”! Yet it is they that pick and choose certain things to call “sin”! The word sin is really an “error” or “mistake”. The Bible says your free from (believing in) sin! Some people say they sin all the time and then they have to make up the sins they choose to condemn themselves with.

Believe Jesus(the word of God)….and your sin free! Believe yourself and live in condemnation of sin, separated from God through errant beliefs. That's our choice, IMO, TK

[mikeboll64]

So Tim,

I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Now, if I go rape a 3 year old boy tonight, are you saying it's only a sin IF I acknowledge it as such?

[mikeboll64]

Revelation 3
2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Tim, Jesus said the above words to the church in Sardis – to people who had already accepted him as their Lord and Savior. So what are these “deeds” Jesus is talking to them about? How can their “deeds” not be “complete” if all we are required to do is accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior?

[ftk]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,02:21)

So Tim, I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  Now, if I go rape a 3 year old boy tonight, are you saying it's only a sin IF I acknowledge it as such?

Hey Mike;

You said:….I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Now, if I go rape a 3 year old boy tonight, are you saying it's only a sin IF I acknowledge it as such?…..
IF JESUS IS YOUR LORD YOU WOULD FOLLOW JESUS….AN NO YOU WOULD NOT RAPE A 3 YEAR OLD EVER!

BUT LETS LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE!….IF SATAN IS THE RULER OF THIS WORLD AS EVERYONE ELSE SEEMS TO SAY….THEN YOU ARE NOT ONLY ALREADY IN SIN THINKING BUT YOU COULD BE DECEIVED BY LIES TO DO A TERRIBLE THING TO SOMEONE!

FRESH WATER AND SALT WATER CANNOT COME FROM THE SAME WELL!! GOD/JESUS DOES NOT DWELL/LIVE IN A TEMPLE OF SIN!!

[Are you saying that I won't have everlasting life because I won't fool myself into claiming to be sin-free after accepting Jesus as my Lord?]…..DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SIN?
DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS TOOK AWAY YOUR SIN(PREVIOUS)?

DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS WAS THE FINAL OFFERING FOR SIN, ONCE FOR ALL TIME?

WAS JESUS THE LAMB OF GOD/FINAL SACRIFICE TO CLEANSE YOU FROM ALL SIN…PAST….PRESENT….& FUTURE! Washed clean!

WHEN SIN IS GONE….YOU ARE ETERNAL LIFE! ETERNAL LIFE DOES NOT HAVE SIN MIXED IN IT. ETERNAL LIFE IS PURE LIFE WITH NO DEATH!

Just some thought, bless you and yours! TK

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 11 2011,02:06)

Mike: The reason we seem to disagree on the ''sin” subject, is that I don't see “sin” as something you do or don't do! In truth I believe sin is a personally applied, self judged, self inflicted mental attitude of condemnation for something a man believes he has done or not done, or said or not said! That man[himself] has then judged, as a sin, something he believes is sin, that separates our perfect union with God! This is ''self judgment'', instead of judgment by ''the word'' of God!! Religion has taught us to believe its the “works or deeds” we do, or don't do, that are “sin”!  Yet it is they that pick and choose certain things to call “sin”! The word sin is really an “error” or “mistake”. The Bible says your free from (believing in) sin! Some people say they sin all the time and then they have to make up the sins they choose to condemn themselves with. Believe Jesus(the word of God)….and your sin free! Believe yourself and live in condemnation of sin, separated from God through errant beliefs. That's our choice, IMO, TK

Hi Tim,

You have made this thought of yours abundantly clear,
but too bad it is not biblical or you would have something.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 12 2011,23:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,02:21) So Tim, I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  Now, if I go rape a 3 year old boy tonight, are you saying it's only a sin IF I acknowledge it as such? Hey Mike; You said:….I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  Now, if I go rape a 3 year old boy tonight, are you saying it's only a sin IF I acknowledge it as such?….. IF JESUS IS YOUR LORD YOU WOULD FOLLOW JESUS….AN NO YOU WOULD NOT RAPE A 3 YEAR OLD EVER!

Hi Tim,

Then you agree that 'sin' is something someone does; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 12 2011,06:56)

IF JESUS IS YOUR LORD YOU WOULD FOLLOW JESUS….

And isn't “FOLLOWING JESUS” a “deed” that I must continually perform?

This is all that I'm saying, Tim.  You seem to think that saying “I believe” ends everything and you automatically gain everlasting life.  That is NOT the case.  Not only must you believe that the sacrifice of Jesus atoned for our many sins, you must also do good DEEDS, such as “following Jesus”, and doing things the way he would have done them.

I await your comment on the Rev 3 passage I just quoted.

[Author]

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