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People say they are searching for the truth, is this “true”?
Is knowledge “truth” and what “knowledge” is true?
God is Spirit until they find out that Spirit in Hebrew is feminine.
Appears people say they want Truth and then ignore Her when She is presented. And after being presented with the Truth (Spirit is feminine) they continue not to incorporate this information into their knowledge base and vocabulary.
Isn't the voluntary “error of omission” the same as deceiving?
Act 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Which Scriptures? Hebrew Bible Scriptures!!!! NOT the NT.
Gen 1:2- Check it out. What does it say about “Spirit”?
Davidbfun
like i said before ,the truth can not contradict it selves,and it as to be in harmony with the will of God,
so if you do not know the will of God ,how do you have any harmony in scriptures.Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Heb 11:2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.this is just a sample but it as the principal guide in it.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2010,10:24) Davidbfun like i said before ,the truth can not contradict it selves,and it as to be in harmony with the will of God,
so if you do not know the will of God ,how do you have any harmony in scriptures.Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Heb 11:2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.this is just a sample but it as the principal guide in it.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Hebrews 11 is perfect for “faith”. And the Bible is truth.
Did you ever wonder what the Bereans were searching for daily? And again they weren't searching the NT.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,11:27) eans Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2010,10:24) Davidbfun like i said before ,the truth can not contradict it selves,and it as to be in harmony with the will of God,
so if you do not know the will of God ,how do you have any harmony in scriptures.Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Heb 11:2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.this is just a sample but it as the principal guide in it.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Hebrews 11 is perfect for “faith”. And the Bible is truth.
Did you ever wonder what the Bereans were searching for daily? And again they weren't searching the NT.
The Professor
DBFmany years ago i did,and i prayed to know,
and the answer that came to me is this;
what scrolls did Paul had?
what scrolls were availlable to the boreans,if they were different of those of Paul?but they could not be different because otherwise they would not talk about the samethings and they did.
so the truth is the same in all scriptures.
Pierre
Pierre,
I agree. All OT “Bibles” had to be exactly the same.
That is why I am “interested” in what the Bereans were searching daily for so that I could keep an OT log of “truths” that were “hidden”.
Jesus also quoted Scripture to the two disciples on the road to Emmaeus explaining himself.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,20:00) Pierre, I agree. All OT “Bibles” had to be exactly the same.
That is why I am “interested” in what the Bereans were searching daily for so that I could keep an OT log of “truths” that were “hidden”.
Jesus also quoted Scripture to the two disciples on the road to Emmaeus explaining himself.
DBFlets just for a moment go back at the time of Christ ,there was no books as we know it but scrolls,no chapters and verses.
you can see that many did not have there own copy until they would copy it for them selves,
it would be like if we would have only one bible but be 15 to look at it and pass it on so all could see what is written,Paul i beleive was impressed more with there enthusiasm and eagerness to learn this showed there love for God that powerful want to know?
this is missing in this forum it looks like all know until you read there quotes.
Pierre
Pierre,
I agree that the break-down of the books/letters by chapters and verses makes it easier to find and address.
I don't have to go back to Jesus' times: When I was growing up in the Catholic church (and even today here in Colombia) they didn't want us to read the Bible,,,,they wanted to “tell us” what the Bible said.
Just last week, I was noticing a lot of Jesus' parables came from the OT (Proverbs), I think. And since Jesus said that he was the Way, the Truth and the Life…..he quoted a lot from the Scriptures….which obviously is the Truth.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,22:00) Pierre, I agree that the break-down of the books/letters by chapters and verses makes it easier to find and address.
I don't have to go back to Jesus' times: When I was growing up in the Catholic church (and even today here in Colombia) they didn't want us to read the Bible,,,,they wanted to “tell us” what the Bible said.
Just last week, I was noticing a lot of Jesus' parables came from the OT (Proverbs), I think. And since Jesus said that he was the Way, the Truth and the Life…..he quoted a lot from the Scriptures….which obviously is the Truth.
DBFChrist was the living truth of God on earth
Pierre
David the Professor,
God has no gender. Scripture may attribute that male gender to him as an indication of his authority as the societies and that time were patriarchal. A patriarchal society is the natural outgrowth of the sexual dimorphism God and the expendability of males in the human sapient kind. The population of the future generation depends on the number of fertile females in the present generation. With the over abundance of humans at this time it is not currently an issue but when the numbers were smaller it was a crucial concern.
The fact that the Spirit of God was referred to in the feminine may mean very little as another translation is Breath of God and my breaths have no real gender. God's breaths are not like mine as things come to be according to the breaths of God. It is perhaps that quality that the Jews were speaking of in the feminine as it is through women that each man, with the exception of Adam and Eve, come to be.
Your point is considered irrelevant in most case and thus omitting it does not deceive anyone. The exception being when you are addressing the specific issue in question and omit it to deceive even if bias blinds you to your to your choice to deceive.
This is an intellectual issue but as far as I can tell has no real bearing on the message of salvation.
Greetings Kerwin my fellow student,
Actually, the topic about “God” is quite relevant….about knowing your God.
And what I have tried to do is to develop a foundation of how I see God from the information given in the Bible.
From that foundation I am able to address the various topics addressed here on hn and not just Salvation.
There are various “truths” depending on each subject. And the truth concerning Spirit of God in Gen 1:2 is so often ignored. However, there are many posts claiming to know something about the subject.
Kerwin, this may be an “intellectual” issue but could you do me a favor and just post the “facts” concerning the “Spirit” as listed in Gen 1:2? Specifically parts of speech and gender?
David the Professor,
Geneses 1:2 reads:
Quote Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
The Hebrew word “Ruwach” translated into the word Spirit in this scripture can instead be translated into the words “Air”, “Anger”, “Blast”, “Breath”, “Cool”, “Courage”, “Mind”, Misc”, “Side”, “Vain”, and “Wind” according the Hebrew Lexicon at SearchGodsWord.org. Context decides what the correct intention is but a few of those actually fit the context. Either “Breath” or “Wind” is probably the correct one since the scripture is speaking of the creative force of God though “Mind” fits all right as well. I prefer “Breath” or even “Word” as they fit with John 1:1 that seems to be speaking of the same or a similar event even though “Word was not mentioned in the Lexicon I consulted.
The English word “Spirit” is defined according to certain doctrines so it tends to back up those doctrines whether or not they are true.
The word “Ruwach” is a feminine noun.
I covered this in my post. The Spirit is not God but rather a part of God. It does not have a different gender than God and God has no gender. Some skippers call their boat a “she” which does not mean the boat is of the female gender even though it is a feminine noun. The Hebrew people are known to be descriptive with the labels they put on words. “Ruwach” is an example of that practice as it may just be stating a spirit is like a female wind in that you cannot see it but you see the effects of its passage. Jesus uses a variation of that example in John 3:8.
That clause could be technically be translated to “breathe of God's host” since “elohiym” is the plural form of the masculine noun word “elowahh”. Of course I do not believe there is a substantial difference since it is the same Spirit of God that flows throughout the host.
It is obvious you are trying to make a point. How do you believe your point is part of the good news of the coming of the kingdom of heaven?
Professor
“””God is Spirit until they find out that Spirit in Hebrew is feminine. Appears people say they want Truth and then ignore Her when She is presented. And after being presented with the Truth (Spirit is feminine) they continue not to incorporate this information into their knowledge base and vocabulary.”””
Is she a blond too?
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
God's word, the Bible, is truth, that includes the OT.
Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and “”truth”” came by Jesus Christ.
Georg
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2010,04:16) David the Professor, Geneses 1:2 reads:
Quote Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
The Hebrew word “Ruwach” translated into the word Spirit in this scripture can instead be translated into the words “Air”, “Anger”, “Blast”, “Breath”, “Cool”, “Courage”, “Mind”, Misc”, “Side”, “Vain”, and “Wind” according the Hebrew Lexicon at SearchGodsWord.org. Context decides what the correct intention is but a few of those actually fit the context. Either “Breath” or “Wind” is probably the correct one since the scripture is speaking of the creative force of God though “Mind” fits all right as well. I prefer “Breath” or even “Word” as they fit with John 1:1 that seems to be speaking of the same or a similar event even though “Word was not mentioned in the Lexicon I consulted.
The English word “Spirit” is defined according to certain doctrines so it tends to back up those doctrines whether or not they are true.
The word “Ruwach” is a feminine noun.
I covered this in my post. The Spirit is not God but rather a part of God. It does not have a different gender than God and God has no gender. Some skippers call their boat a “she” which does not mean the boat is of the female gender even though it is a feminine noun. The Hebrew people are known to be descriptive with the labels they put on words. “Ruwach” is an example of that practice as it may just be stating a spirit is like a female wind in that you cannot see it but you see the effects of its passage. Jesus uses a variation of that example in John 3:8.
That clause could be technically be translated to “breathe of God's host” since “elohiym” is the plural form of the masculine noun word “elowahh”. Of course I do not believe there is a substantial difference since it is the same Spirit of God that flows throughout the host.
It is obvious you are trying to make a point. How do you believe your point is part of the good news of the coming of the kingdom of heaven?
Kerwin,Thank you for the time and placing the information.
YOU: The word “Ruwach” is a feminine noun.
As I stated this information was not to promote Salvation.
Now then, if someone says that the Holy Spirit is God, the Father, would you agree?
I don't like to translate “Ruwach Elohim” because that is when you and everyone else will try to destroy the way it is translated. If you leave it alone it would be Ruwach of Elohim.
However, you did make an excellent observation when you said that Ruwach is NOT Elohim but a part of Elohim.
YOU: The Spirit is not God (Elohim) but rather a part of God (Elohim).
I put (Elohim) after God so that we can be specific to what was written, ok?Now if you will continue to be honest and look at Gen 2:4 you will see “YHWH Elohim”. By using the same logic and language determination you did for Gen 1:2 you will say that YHWH is not God (Elohim) but is a part of God (Elohim)….regardless of the meaning of YHWH. And it could be written as YHWH of Elohim…. Wouldn't you agree with this?
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 29 2010,05:22) Professor “””God is Spirit until they find out that Spirit in Hebrew is feminine. Appears people say they want Truth and then ignore Her when She is presented. And after being presented with the Truth (Spirit is feminine) they continue not to incorporate this information into their knowledge base and vocabulary.”””
Is she a blond too?
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
God's word, the Bible, is truth, that includes the OT.
Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and “”truth”” came by Jesus Christ.
Georg
Hi Georg,I am a blonde but I don't think She is.
I try to write and respond to your posts seriously, don't I Georg?
Do me a favor, and yourself,,,,do the same thing Kerwin did and look up “spirit” in Gen 1:2 and do a word search and tell me the parts of speech and gender of the word, “spirit”, ok?
This is a chance for you to prove me a “liar”, but if I am sanctifying you in “truth” why not look at “thy word” and see what God has shown?
Or would you prefer to claim “ignorance” of what is written by not looking it up?
It is not hard, look it up, cut and paste that information here, ok?
Thanks,
DBF
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
this is key,
Pierre
David the Professor,
I am not sure what those who believe that the Holy Spirit is God would conclude but it does seem to create a conundrum where God in one aspect is female. Of course I have heard a neuter noun and mescaline noun form of the word spirit are used in Common Greek translations of the New Testament as well as the feminine noun form that is also used in the Hebrew Old Testament versions. That would also play a part.
I did not catch where you stated that the information was not to promote salvation but I am glad to hear you say that.
I am sure “Elohim” does not specifically mean God though according to the context it is used in, it could be a synonym for God. I believe it would be closer to meaning “heavenly host” or “deities” though even those may not be exact matches.
I believe YHWH Elohim” probably means YHWH of the heavenly hosts in Genesis 2:5. It is similar of saying “God of gods“ though knowing the Hebrews, God is most likely a descriptive as well as proper name.. I am not sure though if that is what you understand.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,00:48) People say they are searching for the truth, is this “true”? Is knowledge “truth” and what “knowledge” is true?
God is Spirit until they find out that Spirit in Hebrew is feminine.
Appears people say they want Truth and then ignore Her when She is presented. And after being presented with the Truth (Spirit is feminine) they continue not to incorporate this information into their knowledge base and vocabulary.
Isn't the voluntary “error of omission” the same as deceiving?
Act 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Which Scriptures? Hebrew Bible Scriptures!!!! NOT the NT.
Gen 1:2- Check it out. What does it say about “Spirit”?
David,John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The scriptures, the word, the logos of God is truth.
Our calling is to present the truth as ambassadors for Christ. II Corinthians 5:20.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
We need to be doubly sure that we are presenting the truth. But not only the truth, we are to speak the truth in love. Ephesians 4:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
For us to grow up in him, we must speak the truth in love.
How people respond is their choice.
barley
Hi David and All,
I'm not a language expert, but I do know that in the Spanish language, nouns that end in “o” are masculine……such as “chico” means “boy”. And nouns that end in “a” are feminine………such as “chica” means “girl”. In Spanish, a house is called a “casa”. This is a feminine ending for an inanimate object. Are all houses in Mexico “females”? Different languages use different gender forms of their words, but I wouldn't go as far as to say the holy spirit was a chick because of the feminine gender anymore than I would say that Spanish houses are chicks.
As far as “Elohim YHVH”, it is so simple. YHVH is the divine name that Elohim gave Moses for Himself at the burning bush. Elohim is a title, YHVH is a name. It is no different than saying “President Obama”. One is a title, the other a personal name. “Elohim YHVH” simply refers to our God Jehovah.
David has also said that God is male/female because He created man in His image……MALE AND FEMALE. But this logic doesn't pan out because none of us who are created in God's image are both male and female within one being. David's assertion would be more like saying that God created male human beings in HALF OF HIS IMAGE, and female human beings in the other half of His image.
None of us are created as he/she's, so why would one assume that God is a he/she? It is the same logic I use against the trinity………….none of us are multiple persons in one being, so why would anyone think the God whose image we're created in would be multiple persons within one being?
My two cents,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 30 2010,21:21) Hi David and All, I'm not a language expert, but I do know that in the Spanish language, nouns that end in “o” are masculine……such as “chico” means “boy”. And nouns that end in “a” are feminine………such as “chica” means “girl”. In Spanish, a house is called a “casa”. This is a feminine ending for an inanimate object. Are all houses in Mexico “females”? Different languages use different gender forms of their words, but I wouldn't go as far as to say the holy spirit was a chick because of the feminine gender anymore than I would say that Spanish houses are chicks.
As far as “Elohim YHVH”, it is so simple. YHVH is the divine name that Elohim gave Moses for Himself at the burning bush. Elohim is a title, YHVH is a name. It is no different than saying “President Obama”. One is a title, the other a personal name. “Elohim YHVH” simply refers to our God Jehovah.
David has also said that God is male/female because He created man in His image……MALE AND FEMALE. But this logic doesn't pan out because none of us who are created in God's image are both male and female within one being. David's assertion would be more like saying that God created male human beings in HALF OF HIS IMAGE, and female human beings in the other half of His image.
None of us are created as he/she's, so why would one assume that God is a he/she? It is the same logic I use against the trinity………….none of us are multiple persons in one being, so why would anyone think the God whose image we're created in would be multiple persons within one being?
My two cents,
mike
hi Mikeit says that ADAM was created to the image of God not Eve ,Eve was taken out of Adam ,fallowing this logic so to speak God must be masculine, an spirit masculine?
Jesus says that after the resurrection the elected ones will go in heaven and be like angels ,and not given in marriage.
some people forget that sex is only for reproduction of our kind.no more no less.
this is to me a ridicule question to discuss God gender;;;;;
this beats me,may God forgive us for this.this is not the purpose of sacrifice of Christ.
my two penny s
PierreQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2010,16:31) hi Mike it says that ADAM was created to the image of God not Eve ,Eve was taken out of Adam ,fallowing this logic so to speak God must be masculine, an spirit masculine?
Hi Pierre,You are correct, but it also says,
Genesis 1:27 NIV
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.And I don't know if you noticed or not, but I'm with you on this one. I think the “gender” of God is a moot subject. Does it have any bearing on scripture at all? God is always referred to as a “He”, and His Son who was the exact representation of Him was a male, so why try to make something out of nothing?
At least that's how I feel, and have rejected David's pm invites and stayed away from this topic for, like you, I think it is pure silliness and unimportant.
I refuse to write David off as a “crackpot” however, for he does know scripture and understands much of it the same way that you and I do, Pierre.
My point was to make clear that his notion of God being a he/she doesn't hold water based only on the gender of certain words and that one scripture I posted above. There are gaping holes in both “proofs” that he presents.
I agree with you that it is not a topic that I'm interested in discussing, for I think it is frivolous.
That being said, you make a great point about the angels and the fact that the different sexes in earthly creatures are mainly (maybe ONLY) for reproductive purposes.
peace and love,
mike
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