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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 02 2013,08:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,12:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,14:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2013,15:41) Wakeup, Quote Is science spiritual knowledge?
Is politics spiritual knowledge?They can be either spiritual or carnal knowledge depending on whether or not they are based on godly principles. Jesus is King and delve into politics, and his politics are godly. Satan's, on the other hand, are based on carnal principles.
Kerwin.Am I hearing what I'm hearing?
Jesus is in politics also?
He does not have to: God is in control of everything and anything.
Who has been whispering in your ears?
Must be the hot brees.wakeup.
Wakeup,He has already won his possition and he has no chance of loosing it so there no need for that kind of politics but he still guides and influences governmental policy, even that on earth.
Kerwin.This I agree with.
He is the hand holding the axe.
He does not need to play politics.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no clue what you think politics is but Jesus and his servants are engaged in politics to this day. The heart behind his and those he rules is pure. A Christian is to do right in whatever endeavor he does, in doing this he follows Jesus.
Kerwin.Is there need for politics when
he is the hand holding the axe?
Meaning:he is in control of everything.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.wakeup.
w
Quote We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.THOSE SCRIPTURES ,WORDS OF CHRIST ,DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU ,;BUT YOU KNOW BEST
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,02:43) w Quote We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.THOSE SCRIPTURES ,WORDS OF CHRIST ,DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU ,;BUT YOU KNOW BEST
T.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except* the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.You read;but can not comprehend.
NO MAN CAN COME TO JESUS EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAWS
HIM. YES GOD IS IN CHARGE OF THIS TOO.
AND THIS INCLUDES YOU, CAN NOT COME TO JESUS IF GOD DID NOT CHOOSE YOU.GOD IS NOT LIKE A BRAND OF BREAD *THAT YOU* CHOOSE.
YOU ARE CHOSEN BEFORE YOU ARE BORN.
BUT YOU ALSO ARE GIVEN SINEWS OF BRASS.
THIS MEANS THE TRIBULATION IS AHEAD OF YOU
TO MAKE YOU WHITE. IF NOT THEN THE SECOND RESURRECTION IS YOUR LOT.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,20:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 02 2013,08:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,12:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,14:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2013,15:41) Wakeup, Quote Is science spiritual knowledge?
Is politics spiritual knowledge?They can be either spiritual or carnal knowledge depending on whether or not they are based on godly principles. Jesus is King and delve into politics, and his politics are godly. Satan's, on the other hand, are based on carnal principles.
Kerwin.Am I hearing what I'm hearing?
Jesus is in politics also?
He does not have to: God is in control of everything and anything.
Who has been whispering in your ears?
Must be the hot brees.wakeup.
Wakeup,He has already won his possition and he has no chance of loosing it so there no need for that kind of politics but he still guides and influences governmental policy, even that on earth.
Kerwin.This I agree with.
He is the hand holding the axe.
He does not need to play politics.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no clue what you think politics is but Jesus and his servants are engaged in politics to this day. The heart behind his and those he rules is pure. A Christian is to do right in whatever endeavor he does, in doing this he follows Jesus.
Kerwin.Is there need for politics when
he is the hand holding the axe?
Meaning:he is in control of everything.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is always a need for politics as long as there is right to be done at the government level. There is even more of a need now than in the world to come.
kerwin,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Wakeup, There is always a need for politics as long as there is right to be done at the government level. There is even more of a need now than in the world to come.
There is a need Kerwin, and that's why Christ has to return soon, to restore order because our governments are corrupt, being used as puppets for those who control them who have an agenda. An evil scheme is about to show her ugly face.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:19) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,20:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 02 2013,08:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,12:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,14:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2013,15:41) Wakeup, Quote Is science spiritual knowledge?
Is politics spiritual knowledge?They can be either spiritual or carnal knowledge depending on whether or not they are based on godly principles. Jesus is King and delve into politics, and his politics are godly. Satan's, on the other hand, are based on carnal principles.
Kerwin.Am I hearing what I'm hearing?
Jesus is in politics also?
He does not have to: God is in control of everything and anything.
Who has been whispering in your ears?
Must be the hot brees.wakeup.
Wakeup,He has already won his possition and he has no chance of loosing it so there no need for that kind of politics but he still guides and influences governmental policy, even that on earth.
Kerwin.This I agree with.
He is the hand holding the axe.
He does not need to play politics.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no clue what you think politics is but Jesus and his servants are engaged in politics to this day. The heart behind his and those he rules is pure. A Christian is to do right in whatever endeavor he does, in doing this he follows Jesus.
Kerwin.Is there need for politics when
he is the hand holding the axe?
Meaning:he is in control of everything.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is always a need for politics as long as there is right to be done at the government level. There is even more of a need now than in the world to come.
Kerwin.Exodus 10:20
***But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart***,
so that he would not let the children of Israel go.God is in charge.
Ezekiel 38:4 And ***I will turn thee back, and put hooks
into thy jaws***,
and **I will bring thee forth**, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:God in charge.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,05:54) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,02:43) w Quote We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.THOSE SCRIPTURES ,WORDS OF CHRIST ,DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU ,;BUT YOU KNOW BEST
T.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except* the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.You read;but can not comprehend.
NO MAN CAN COME TO JESUS EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAWS
HIM. YES GOD IS IN CHARGE OF THIS TOO.
AND THIS INCLUDES YOU, CAN NOT COME TO JESUS IF GOD DID NOT CHOOSE YOU.GOD IS NOT LIKE A BRAND OF BREAD *THAT YOU* CHOOSE.
YOU ARE CHOSEN BEFORE YOU ARE BORN.
BUT YOU ALSO ARE GIVEN SINEWS OF BRASS.
THIS MEANS THE TRIBULATION IS AHEAD OF YOU
TO MAKE YOU WHITE. IF NOT THEN THE SECOND RESURRECTION IS YOUR LOT.wakeup.
WJn 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Jn 6:41 At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
Jn 6:42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
Jn 6:43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.
Jn 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.ACCORDING TO THOSE SCRIPTURES IT IS NOT GOD THAT DRAWS PEOPLE BUT ,THE PEOPLE OWN HEART '
AND THAT IS WHAT MY SCRIPTURES I QUOTED YOU FROM JOHN 3 SEEM CLEARLY SAYING AND OTHER SCRIPTURES ;SO IT IS US THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRAWN TOWARD THE THINGS OF GOD THAT COULD BE SAVED ,
THIS IS WHY GOD LET US CHOSE WHICH ROAD WE WANT
TO FOLLOW ,Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,07:12) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:19) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,20:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 02 2013,08:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,12:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,14:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2013,15:41) Wakeup, Quote Is science spiritual knowledge?
Is politics spiritual knowledge?They can be either spiritual or carnal knowledge depending on whether or not they are based on godly principles. Jesus is King and delve into politics, and his politics are godly. Satan's, on the other hand, are based on carnal principles.
Kerwin.Am I hearing what I'm hearing?
Jesus is in politics also?
He does not have to: God is in control of everything and anything.
Who has been whispering in your ears?
Must be the hot brees.wakeup.
Wakeup,He has already won his possition and he has no chance of loosing it so there no need for that kind of politics but he still guides and influences governmental policy, even that on earth.
Kerwin.This I agree with.
He is the hand holding the axe.
He does not need to play politics.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no clue what you think politics is but Jesus and his servants are engaged in politics to this day. The heart behind his and those he rules is pure. A Christian is to do right in whatever endeavor he does, in doing this he follows Jesus.
Kerwin.Is there need for politics when
he is the hand holding the axe?
Meaning:he is in control of everything.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is always a need for politics as long as there is right to be done at the government level. There is even more of a need now than in the world to come.
Kerwin.Exodus 10:20
***But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart***,
so that he would not let the children of Israel go.God is in charge.
Ezekiel 38:4 And ***I will turn thee back, and put hooks
into thy jaws***,
and **I will bring thee forth**, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:God in charge.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Jesus is not God. He is the human that God has made king of all things in heaven and earth. You still are not understanding that Jesus does his works through his people, politics is one. Jesus has not yet said it is finished. Even when he does people will do righteous things.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,16:08) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,07:12) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:19) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,20:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 02 2013,08:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,12:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,14:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 01 2013,15:41) Wakeup, Quote Is science spiritual knowledge?
Is politics spiritual knowledge?They can be either spiritual or carnal knowledge depending on whether or not they are based on godly principles. Jesus is King and delve into politics, and his politics are godly. Satan's, on the other hand, are based on carnal principles.
Kerwin.Am I hearing what I'm hearing?
Jesus is in politics also?
He does not have to: God is in control of everything and anything.
Who has been whispering in your ears?
Must be the hot brees.wakeup.
Wakeup,He has already won his possition and he has no chance of loosing it so there no need for that kind of politics but he still guides and influences governmental policy, even that on earth.
Kerwin.This I agree with.
He is the hand holding the axe.
He does not need to play politics.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no clue what you think politics is but Jesus and his servants are engaged in politics to this day. The heart behind his and those he rules is pure. A Christian is to do right in whatever endeavor he does, in doing this he follows Jesus.
Kerwin.Is there need for politics when
he is the hand holding the axe?
Meaning:he is in control of everything.John 6:44 No man can come to me,
***except the Father which hath sent me draw him***:
and I will raise him up at the last day.We dont choose God: HE choses us.
He loved us first.
So dont think that *YOU* have made the decision to chooe God.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is always a need for politics as long as there is right to be done at the government level. There is even more of a need now than in the world to come.
Kerwin.Exodus 10:20
***But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart***,
so that he would not let the children of Israel go.God is in charge.
Ezekiel 38:4 And ***I will turn thee back, and put hooks
into thy jaws***,
and **I will bring thee forth**, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:God in charge.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Jesus is not God. He is the human that God has made king of all things in heaven and earth. You still are not understanding that Jesus does his works through his people, politics is one. Jesus has not yet said it is finished. Even when he does people will do righteous things.
Kerwin;Kerwin where are you going?
Please turn back you are going the wrong way,
and you keep on going ignoring all the signs.
You are getting deeper and deeper into trouble spiritually.
Back to the Word of God,for in him is life.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I seek to be righteous as God is righteous and I see it through faith in Jesus Christ for now there is a righteousness that comes by faith. Are you also seeking that righteousness or do you instead believe that humans cannot be like God in true righteousness and holiness even though Christians are called to and given the power to do so.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,17:32) Wakeup, I seek to be righteous as God is righteous and I see it through faith in Jesus Christ for now there is a righteousness that comes by faith. Are you also seeking that righteousness or do you instead believe that humans cannot be like God in true righteousness and holiness even though Christians are called to and given the power to do so.
Kerwin.Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Come and eat his flesh and drink his blood.
The Holy Spirit is waiting to assist you.Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee
***to buy of me gold tried in the fire***,
that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that
***the shame of thy nakedness do not appear***;
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,20:21) 1.The Word was God; (John's words).
2. And the Word was with God. (John's words).
Actually, “and the Word was God” is but one of the two faithful ways those Greek words can be translated. The other is, “and the Word was a god”.But tell me Wakeup, why do you always reverse the order of the words when you explain this?
According to the order in John 1:1, the Word was with God, and the Word was God (or “a god”). But you always put the last line first as you try to explain that the Word USED TO BE God, but LATER came to be WITH God instead.
But that's not the order John wrote it, right? So why does your doctrine rely on reversing the order in which John wrote his words? See how your #1 and your #2 are in reversed order? Try them in the order John actually wrote them, and see how convincing your argument is then. (Oh, and never lose sight of the fact that your argument calls for “God” changing and becoming someone OTHER THAN “God”. As if God divided Himself, and one part remained “God”, while the other part, for some odd reason, wasn't “God” anymore.)
journey,
Where do you weigh in on all this? Do you understand that “the Word was a god” is one of the possible ways to translate the Greek words of John 1:1c?
Do you believe like Wakeup, that we can reverse the order of the words John wrote, and claim that “God” somehow changed and became “not God”?
What are your thoughts?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 05 2013,10:17) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,20:21) 1.The Word was God; (John's words).
2. And the Word was with God. (John's words).
Actually, “and the Word was God” is but one of the two faithful ways those Greek words can be translated. The other is, “and the Word was a god”.But tell me Wakeup, why do you always reverse the order of the words when you explain this?
According to the order in John 1:1, the Word was with God, and the Word was God (or “a god”). But you always put the last line first as you try to explain that the Word USED TO BE God, but LATER came to be WITH God instead.
But that's not the order John wrote it, right? So why does your doctrine rely on reversing the order in which John wrote his words? See how your #1 and your #2 are in reversed order? Try them in the order John actually wrote them, and see how convincing your argument is then. (Oh, and never lose sight of the fact that your argument calls for “God” changing and becoming someone OTHER THAN “God”. As if God divided Himself, and one part remained “God”, while the other part, for some odd reason, wasn't “God” anymore.)
Mike b.The Word was with God and the Word *was* God.
I am reversing it just to explain.The fact remains that John said *WAS* God.
Why was God? Why not is God?
Because he was speaking of the time when the Word
was in God.There was nothing else,but God,and all his powers in Him.Do you believe that God can give his living Word a form/shape?
He can make the stones to glorify Him.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,17:38) Mike b. The Word was with God and the Word *was* God.
I am reversing it just to explain.
That's my point, Wakeup. If you are forced to REVERSE the order so that you can explain it to us, then something's wrong.Consider my understanding: In the PAST (beginning), the Word was with THE God, AND the Word was a god.
See? BOTH lines have the word “was”- as in “past tense”, right? But they are linked by the word “and” – which tells me that in the past, the Word was with God and also was God/a god AT THE SAME TIME. He was both this AND that – at that same point of time in the past.
There are no words in that verse that would lead anyone to believe that the Word USED TO BE God BEFORE he came to be WITH God. There is no timeline mentioned – as if one of the things happened first, and then the other thing happened later. You are reading this timeline into the words John wrote, Wakeup.
And even after reading that timeline into the text when it's not there, you still have to reverse the order in which John wrote the words for your conclusion to have any chance of making sense to anyone.
And even after reversing the order of the words, you have get someone to believe that something which used to BE God, changed and became a different living entity who was NEXT TO God, but was not God anymore.
In the beginning (only ONE time period mentioned), the Word was with God, and the Word was [ALSO] ?
We know the Greek word at the end is “theos” – which means “god”. So, was the Word God AT THE SAME TIME he was also WITH God?
Or was the Word A god at the same time he was also with THE God?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,17:38) The fact remains that John said *WAS* God.
Did John say “WAS with God, and WAS God” AT THE SAME TIME? Or did he say “WAS with God and WAS a god” AT THE SAME TIME?Both of the things signified by the word “WAS” were happening at the SAME TIME period – which is listed as “in the beginning”.
Do you understand that there are no words to signify that one thing happened before or after the other thing? YES or NO?
Do you understand that the words John used imply that the Word was this AND that AT THE SAME TIME? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,10:53) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,17:38) The fact remains that John said *WAS* God.
Did John say “WAS with God, and WAS God” AT THE SAME TIME? Or did he say “WAS with God and WAS a god” AT THE SAME TIME?Both of the things signified by the word “WAS” were happening at the SAME TIME period – which is listed as “in the beginning”.
Do you understand that there are no words to signify that one thing happened before or after the other thing? YES or NO?
Do you understand that the words John used imply that the Word was this AND that AT THE SAME TIME? YES or NO?
Mike B.NO:
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE WORD WAS GOD.
LETS SAY JOHN IS LOOKING UP,AND ONLY SAW GOD.
*NO WORD*, NO NOTHING CREATED,JUST THE ONE GOD,AND GOD ALONE.
JOHN WOULD HAVE SAID IN HIS MIND:I ONLY SEE GOD.
AND NOTHING ELSE.THEN HE LOOKS UP AGAIN LATER IN TIME,AND **SAW THE WORD** SPEAKING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE: ANGELS
AND ALL CREATION AND THE HEAVENS.
HERE HE MUST HAVE TOUGHT; OH–HE MUST BE THE
WORD THAT CAME FROM GOD,BECAUSE THERE WAS ONLY GOD I SAW BACK THEN;THERE WAS NONE ELSE.NOW I SEE THE WORD OF GOD SPEAKING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE. WOW THAT IS INTERESTING.
SO NOW JOHN EXPLAINS WHAT HE EXPERIENCED,AND SAID:
**IN THE *BEGINNING* WAS THE WORD**.
HE STARTED WITH THE WORD *BEGINNING*. THE BEGINNING OF SPEAKING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE,
LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE AND HEAVEN.THE BEGINNING OF CREATION.THEN HE ADDED;**AND THE WORD WAS GOD**.
BECAUSE THERE WAS ONLY GOD HE SAW AT FIRST,NOTHING ELSE. AND THEN HE SAW THE WORD OF GOD ALSO. SO HIS CONCLUSION WAS:
THE WORD WAS GOD. HE MUST BE GOD'S WORD; GOD SPEAKING. GOD GAVE HIS WORD A FORM/SHAPE.
WE ARE SHAPED LIKE HIM.wakeup.
mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote journey, Where do you weigh in on all this? Do you understand that “the Word was a god” is one of the possible ways to translate the Greek words of John 1:1c?
Hi Mike,Lets put all translations aside for the moment. This is only clogging our thinking process. Let's use what God gave us, and analyse from the scriptures to test.
John 1:1 is speaking of the beginning of creation, do you agree?, ….even before the angels were created. IN THE BEGINNING, ….OF CREATION.
So, we go to other scriptures also where God explains what he did in “THE BEGINNING OF CREATION”
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were.. the heavens made…; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
So, if you can understand what I'm pointing out, is not only the fact that God created everything which I know that you already know, but the fact that nothing else was in existence at this point of time. So that would include no other gods were even in existence.
So I see no need for God to say that the “Word was A God” for there were no other creatures yet created, even the angels.
Quote Do you believe like Wakeup, that we can reverse the order of the words John wrote, and claim that “God” somehow changed and became “not God”?
Psalms 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. What are your thoughts?
I'm not sure of that conversation you had with Wakeup. I know that Wakeup has explained many times, in many different ways because no one is understanding so far.I see it as “in the beginning” of creation “was the Word”.
The emphasis here is THE WORD.
(We know that same Word was used to create everything),
And the Word was WITH God.John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (In the beginning)
So, this is Jesus speaking. He telling us he was there in the beginning of creation. So Jesus was THAT WORD, not the man Jesus yet, but GOD'S WORD.
and the Word was God.
NOT the Word IS GOD, but WAS GOD.
Not “a” god, as if there were others, but was GOD …singular. One only.John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
So, when claimed he was with the Father in the beginning, he was, but as the Word, not as the man Jesus Christ. Just the Word.
Is Jesus God now?, no.
Is the Word God?
Well it used to be before it was made flesh because God said he alone formed the heaven and the earth…..He's not saying Jesus was with him, but the WORD was. (NOT YET TRANSFORMED INTO A MAN)AND WHEN JESUS SAID HE HAD GLORY WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD WAS; HE WAS IMPLYING THAT WAS THE TIME WHEN HE WAS JUST THE WORD. IT IS THE WORD SPEAKING NOW.
You came out of your father. Your fathers seed that made you was inside him orginally, agree?
then it came out and you were made.
I see it that God's WORD works the same, like a spiritual seed containing all God's DNA,
it was originally in God, then it comes out and still performs, does it's job (creates), it's preserved alive, , it doesn't die, then God turns this into something else when implanted in a woman, and changes it into flesh,
then returns to it's natural state, spirit, but has a name now, and a history, and stands the test of time no matter what form it's in,
and this Word will be glorified again, but now by man also because everything this Word did, and spoke, came true and did not contradict himself, nor was false in anyway but true to the end.
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