- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2014,08:03) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2014,08:23) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,14:56) As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….Hmmmm……….. You are at odds with scripture, Kerwin.
Mike,You are at odds with that Scripture as it does not state only spirit bodies can enter heaven.
How can I be at odds with it by taking it at FACE VALUE?
You might not AGREE that those words should be taken at FACE VALUE – but surely you can't claim that I'm “at odds” with it for taking it at face value, can you?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) I am not at odds with that Scripture as there is plenty of evidence that “flesh and blood” means mortal body. You just choose to deny that evidence.
Show me the SCRIPTURAL evidence that supports what you say. (One scripture at a time, if there are more than one.)Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) 1st Corinthians 15:50
International Standard Version
Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.1st Corinthians 15:50
Weymouth New Testament
But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable.
That's right, Kerwin. We will need a DIFFERENT kind of body to inherit God's kingdom. The mortal flesh and blood body we all have right now cannot enter.But first, you must realize that the men who produced those scriptures you quoted are PARAPHRASING the Greek words “flesh and blood”. They are GUESSING those words mean “mortal body”.
And secondly, I highly doubt that the men who made those translations above were thinking the same thing you think. They were thinking that we must get a DIFFERENT kind of body, because bodies of flesh and blood – which just happen to be mortal – cannot enter or inherit the kingdom of God.
I seriously doubt either one of those translators was thinking that we would need to get new, non-corruptible FLESH and BLOOD bodies to enter heaven.
In other words, I doubt they had in mind IMMORTAL flesh and blood bodies that could live in heaven when they translated it as they did.
So, let's back up a step, forget the PARAPHRASES, and take the words Paul wrote at FACE VALUE for a second. Then what? If you take his words at face value, don't your words CONTRADICT his scriptural words?
Mike,Quote
But first, you must realize that the men who produced those scriptures you quoted are PARAPHRASING the Greek words “flesh and blood”. They are GUESSING those words mean “mortal body”.It is not a guess as the know that in some cases “flesh and blood” mean mortal body. They do believe that 1 Corinthians 15:50 though I do not know their reasons for believing it. I do know mine is that Jesus was resurrected in a flesh and bone body and Paul stated the resurrected body is the new body.
An example of a guess is I guess “flesh and bone” mean solid as it seems reasonable. It is a guess because I have no evidence that is so.
You are not taking the words at face vale as at face value it would merely mean the combination of flesh and bone could not inherit the kingdom of God. That leaves a whole lot of material things that could inherit the new heaven and the new earth.
Kerwin,
1. It IS a guess if the words actually say “FLESH AND BLOOD” – but they translate those words as “mortal body”.
2. You once again mention these “cases” where “flesh and blood” undeniably mean “mortal body”. I've asked for one scripture in which that is the case.
Please present that (first) scripture.
3. I AM taking the words at face value, without losing the context of the teaching. Paul is answering the question, “With which kind of BODY will the dead be raised?”
And in that CONTEXT, it is clear he is speaking about flesh and blood BODIES – and not any number of other “material things”.
His point is that we NOW have flesh and blood bodies, but we must be raised with spiritual bodies if we are to dwell in heaven. Why? Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
4. I am happy to hear you state DIRECTLY your reason for seeing this the way that you do. But I will point out that you have made a complete mess of things, including believing that angels are comprised of flesh, and totally ignoring many scriptures – just because Jesus was raised in the same flesh and blood body in which he died.
So, keep in mind that it was the SAME flesh and blood body in which he died – complete with the scars and holes.
And keep in mind that Paul was teaching about what WAS GOING TO happen for the REST of us who are to dwell in heaven. He was not speaking of Jesus, since Jesus had a REASON to be raised in the body in which he died. Who else will be raised to heaven only AFTER spending 40 days on earth first?
See? Jesus is the EXCEPTION to the rule Paul was teaching – as he was the exception to MANY rules.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2014,07:18) Kerwin, 1. It IS a guess if the words actually say “FLESH AND BLOOD” – but they translate those words as “mortal body”.
2. You once again mention these “cases” where “flesh and blood” undeniably mean “mortal body”. I've asked for one scripture in which that is the case.
Please present that (first) scripture.
3. I AM taking the words at face value, without losing the context of the teaching. Paul is answering the question, “With which kind of BODY will the dead be raised?”
And in that CONTEXT, it is clear he is speaking about flesh and blood BODIES – and not any number of other “material things”.
His point is that we NOW have flesh and blood bodies, but we must be raised with spiritual bodies if we are to dwell in heaven. Why? Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
4. I am happy to hear you state DIRECTLY your reason for seeing this the way that you do. But I will point out that you have made a complete mess of things, including believing that angels are comprised of flesh, and totally ignoring many scriptures – just because Jesus was raised in the same flesh and blood body in which he died.
So, keep in mind that it was the SAME flesh and blood body in which he died – complete with the scars and holes.
And keep in mind that Paul was teaching about what WAS GOING TO happen for the REST of us who are to dwell in heaven. He was not speaking of Jesus, since Jesus had a REASON to be raised in the body in which he died. Who else will be raised to heaven only AFTER spending 40 days on earth first?
See? Jesus is the EXCEPTION to the rule Paul was teaching – as he was the exception to MANY rules.
Mike,Hebrews 2:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
That is two out of five uses and I don't any of them are to be taken literal.
Mike,
You do not take the words at face value to you they are saying words that are not even in them. They do not say but you believe that only a spirit body can enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mike,
Quote 1. It IS a guess if the words actually say “FLESH AND BLOOD” – but they translate those words as “mortal body”. A guess is a conclusion based on little or no evidence such as your conclusion that 1 Corinthians 15:50 is declaring that only a spirit body may enter the kingdom of heaven.
The evidence that “flesh and blood” means mortal body is that
Exhibit A: it is know that people of the first Century and later stated “flesh and blood” to mean “mortal body”.
Exhibit B: 1. Paul stated that the bodied that is planted is not the body that is raised.
2. Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body.Exhibit C: 1. Jesus was used in 1 Corinthians 15 as one of those raised from the dead.
2. Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body.That is more than a guess.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,12:10) Mike, You do not take the words at face value to you they are saying words that are not even in them. They do not say but you believe that only a spirit body can enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mike,Quote 3. I AM taking the words at face value, without losing the context of the teaching. Paul is answering the question, “With which kind of BODY will the dead be raised?” And in that CONTEXT, it is clear he is speaking about flesh and blood BODIES – and not any number of other “material things”.
His point is that we NOW have flesh and blood bodies, but we must be raised with spiritual bodies if we are to dwell in heaven. Why? Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
The immediate flaw in your argument is the example he used in 1 Corinthians 15:39 when stated “all flesh is not the same”. That means that a man can be buried in a certain flesh and raised in another flesh and the body that would be raised would not be the body that was planted. Otherwise his examples are of various types of bodies, none of which are composed of spirit.
Mike,
Quote 4. I am happy to hear you state DIRECTLY your reason for seeing this the way that you do. But I will point out that you have made a complete mess of things, including believing that angels are comprised of flesh, and totally ignoring many scriptures – just because Jesus was raised in the same flesh and blood body in which he died. So, keep in mind that it was the SAME flesh and blood body in which he died – complete with the scars and holes.
And keep in mind that Paul was teaching about what WAS GOING TO happen for the REST of us who are to dwell in heaven. He was not speaking of Jesus, since Jesus had a REASON to be raised in the body in which he died. Who else will be raised to heaven only AFTER spending 40 days on earth first?
See? Jesus is the EXCEPTION to the rule Paul was teaching – as he was the exception to MANY rules.
I don't believe what you do on these things.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,00:03) Mike, Hebrews 2:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood……….
That is two out of five uses and I don't [if] any of them are to be taken literal.
Well? Are “the children” (US) comprised of both FLESH and BLOOD? Yes, we are.So we can take that one at face value as well – just like the KJV scholars did.
Next……….
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,13:18) Mike, Quote 1. It IS a guess if the words actually say “FLESH AND BLOOD” – but they translate those words as “mortal body”. A guess is a conclusion based on little or no evidence such as your conclusion that 1 Corinthians 15:50 is declaring that only a spirit body may enter the kingdom of heaven.
The evidence that “flesh and blood” means mortal body is that
Exhibit A: it is know that people of the first Century and later stated “flesh and blood” to mean “mortal body”.
Exhibit B: 1. Paul stated that the bodied that is planted is not the body that is raised.
2. Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body.Exhibit C: 1. Jesus was used in 1 Corinthians 15 as one of those raised from the dead.
2. Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body.That is more than a guess.
It's not only a guess, but also a paraphrase.I'm still waiting for the first evidence supporting exhibit A.
As for the rest, although I have already addressed them in my last post, it is clear that more light needs to be shined.
I will start a thread on this subject – just for you and me.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:58) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,00:03) Mike, Hebrews 2:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood……….
That is two out of five uses and I don't [if] any of them are to be taken literal.
Well? Are “the children” (US) comprised of both FLESH and BLOOD? Yes, we are.So we can take that one at face value as well – just like the KJV scholars did.
Next……….
Mike,You need the whole context to see why “flesh and blood” was used instead of mankind.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,02:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:58) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,00:03) Mike, Hebrews 2:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood……….
That is two out of five uses and I don't [if] any of them are to be taken literal.
Well? Are “the children” (US) comprised of both FLESH and BLOOD? Yes, we are.So we can take that one at face value as well – just like the KJV scholars did.
Next……….
Mike,You need the whole context to see why “flesh and blood” was used instead of mankind.
Mike,We can look into the meaning or meanings of this passage in another thread.
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 06 2013,01:47) I don't really feel comfortable talking about this subject but…
What is a sodomite?Can anyone tell me?
I thought it was common knowledge refering to someone that practises anal sex. Have they changed the meaning of that word?
I looked it up and one definition said that it referred to a gay or lesbian person. I don't think this is the real meaning as heterosexuals also practise this. This is The New Age Sex. Another definition said it was it was a prostitute? Hello? New Age Dictionary. Lets change the meaning of words now shall we. The NWO is trying to confuse you, because they don't want you to cross reference with the bible…..the true bible that is.The act of Sodomy is an abomination to God. I think the world should know what it truly means, and we would have to seek through more scriptures to see how God describes it.
This is just another example of an inconsistency among the many bibles. I've also pasted all the versions that agree with the KJV, so I'm not bias, but we need to be informed and everything needs to be tested.
Lets look at this.
KJV
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.NIV
Dueteronomy 23:17 No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute.NLT
Dueteronomy 23:17 “No Israelite, whether man or woman, may become a temple prostitute.EST
Dueteronomy 23:17 “None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.NASB
Dueteronomy 23:17 None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult prostitute.HCSB
Dueteronomy 23:17 No Israelite woman is to be a cult prostitute, and no Israelite man is to be a cult prostitute.ISV
Dueteronomy 23:17 “There are to be no cultic prostitutes among the daughters or the sons of Israel.Net Bible
Dueteronomy 23:17 There must never be a sacred prostitute among the young women of Israel nor a sacred male prostitute among the young men of Israel.Gods Word Bible
Dueteronomy 23:17 No Israelite man or woman should ever become a temple prostitute.Jubilee Bible 2000
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no female cult prostitutes of the daughters of Israel nor any male cult prostitutes of the sons of Israel.King James 2000 bible
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.American King James Version
Dueteronomy 23:27There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.American Standard Version
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel.Douay-Rheims Bible
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore among the daughters of Israel, nor whoremonger among the sons of Israel.Darby Bible Translation
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no prostitute amongst the daughters of Israel, nor any Sodomite amongst the sons of Israel.English Revised Version
Derteronomy 23:17 There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel.Webster's Bible Translation
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.World English Bible
Dueteronomy 23:17 There shall be no prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel.Young's Literal Translation
Dueteronomy 23:17 'There is not a whore among the daughters of Israel, nor is there a whoremonger among the sons of Israel;
The word sodomite comes from the name of the town, SodomClearly, one of the sins of Sodom was its rampant homosexuality
Does homosexuality involve anal sex only?
or does it include other perversions as well?
It includes other sexual perversions as well.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
What sexual acts are involved with a husband and wife?
Those same acts, all those same acts, when performed between same sex partners is an abomination.
all of those are the acts of sodomites
sonofGod,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote What sexual acts are involved with a husband and wife? I think I know what you are talking about, and I think i read it years ago somewhere in the scriptures and have been trying to find it ever since without luck, and what I am talking about just seems like it has vanished from the scriptures, and I have no proof.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
