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T,
Paul was there when Steven was stoned and he would have known that Steven's body was not caught up into heaven if he was speaking of Steven. He stated he did not know if the man's body was caught up into heaven which tells you he was not speaking of Steven.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2013,03:42) T, Paul was there when Steven was stoned and he would have known that Steven's body was not caught up into heaven if he was speaking of Steven. He stated he did not know if the man's body was caught up into heaven which tells you he was not speaking of Steven.
kDOES PAUL MENTION WHAT TYPE OF BODY HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ,?? OR YOU ASSUME THAT HE TALKS ABOUT THE FLESH
1Co 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
1Co 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.IT SEEMS HE KNOW NOW WHAT HE DID NOT KNEW THEN
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 29 2013,05:12) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2013,03:42) T, Paul was there when Steven was stoned and he would have known that Steven's body was not caught up into heaven if he was speaking of Steven. He stated he did not know if the man's body was caught up into heaven which tells you he was not speaking of Steven.
kDOES PAUL MENTION WHAT TYPE OF BODY HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ,?? OR YOU ASSUME THAT HE TALKS ABOUT THE FLESH
1Co 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
1Co 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.IT SEEMS HE KNOW NOW WHAT HE DID NOT KNEW THEN
T,Since you have chosen to switch topics or at least appear to have done so I conclude that you accept as fact the man Paul speaks of is not Steven.
The body of the living on earth is flesh and the body of angels appears to be flesh. The man in question was a man of earth and so I have no reason to doubt that his body was flesh.
There is simply no creditable support for any other body on a living creature of earth. There are living souls that have no body.
1 Corinthians is written before 2nd Corinthians and he did not know in 2nd Corinthians. But in 1st Corinthians he makes the point that the all flesh is not the same. He had a reason for both making that point and later stating flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:58) Mike, Quote Now, since you know that flesh and blood CANNOT enter or inherit the kingdom of God, you have come up with the nonsensical notion that flesh and blood can't, but flesh and bone can, right? That passage does not say that only spirit can enter heaven and you know it does not but you keep acting like it does. You are trying to make it say flesh cannot enter heaven and it does not say that either. Simply put it is not even speaking of the present day but it is instead speaking of the time after Judgement day when the changed will inherit the reign of God.
As it sits you will not admit what the passage states and does not state because you have invested your worldview into believing what is not written.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the one who says flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, but flesh and bone can?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,07:47) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:58) Mike, Quote Now, since you know that flesh and blood CANNOT enter or inherit the kingdom of God, you have come up with the nonsensical notion that flesh and blood can't, but flesh and bone can, right? That passage does not say that only spirit can enter heaven and you know it does not but you keep acting like it does. You are trying to make it say flesh cannot enter heaven and it does not say that either. Simply put it is not even speaking of the present day but it is instead speaking of the time after Judgement day when the changed will inherit the reign of God.
As it sits you will not admit what the passage states and does not state because you have invested your worldview into believing what is not written.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the one who says flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, but flesh and bone can?
Mike,You are mistaken.
I am well aware that the clause “flesh and blood” was used to mean mortal body. I do not like some choose to disregard history I find inconvenient but instead test its spirit.
The passage is not speaking of this age as it is speaking of inheritance.
I am sorry if my way of arguing gave you false impressions at that was not my intent.
Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time:
Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2013,00:33) I am well aware that the clause “flesh and blood” was used to mean mortal body.
And are you also aware that it is an idiom for “human being”?Are you aware that it also sometimes refers to exactly what it says, ie: FLESH…….. and ……….. BLOOD?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,07:31) Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time: Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Mike,I have my beliefs but I at times set them aside to study.
I believe that the term “flesh and blood” is a first Century idiom that means mortal body.
Therefore the mortal body cannot inherit the new world or the new heaven. As to the current world, the mortal body exists and at the least might be able to enter current heaven. All the evidence in Scripture seems to show that the human body will be just as it is today but changed so that cannot perish.
The current human body does exist in the current kingdom of God as it is on earth.
As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,07:31) Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time: Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Mike,I have my beliefs but I at times set them aside to study.
I believe that the term “flesh and blood” is a first Century idiom that means mortal body.
Therefore the mortal body cannot inherit the new world or the new heaven. As to the current world, the mortal body exists and at the least might be able to enter current heaven. All the evidence in Scripture seems to show that the human body will be just as it is today but changed so that cannot perish.
The current human body does exist in the current kingdom of God as it is on earth.
As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
Kerwin.Where is your heaven on earth today?
This is what the sriptures say:2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
***except there come a falling away first***,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself ***above all that is called God***, or that is worshipped;
***so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God***, ***shewing himself that he is God***.Is that your heaven?
I can see no heaven on earth,but a falling away instead.
And the son of perdition in the temple of God.
Please explain.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:19) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,07:31) Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time: Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Mike,I have my beliefs but I at times set them aside to study.
I believe that the term “flesh and blood” is a first Century idiom that means mortal body.
Therefore the mortal body cannot inherit the new world or the new heaven. As to the current world, the mortal body exists and at the least might be able to enter current heaven. All the evidence in Scripture seems to show that the human body will be just as it is today but changed so that cannot perish.
The current human body does exist in the current kingdom of God as it is on earth.
As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
Kerwin.Where is your heaven on earth today?
This is what the sriptures say:2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
***except there come a falling away first***,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself ***above all that is called God***, or that is worshipped;
***so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God***, ***shewing himself that he is God***.Is that your heaven?
I can see no heaven on earth,but a falling away instead.
And the son of perdition in the temple of God.
Please explain.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is no place that is not under the reign of God.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:19) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,07:31) Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time: Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Mike,I have my beliefs but I at times set them aside to study.
I believe that the term “flesh and blood” is a first Century idiom that means mortal body.
Therefore the mortal body cannot inherit the new world or the new heaven. As to the current world, the mortal body exists and at the least might be able to enter current heaven. All the evidence in Scripture seems to show that the human body will be just as it is today but changed so that cannot perish.
The current human body does exist in the current kingdom of God as it is on earth.
As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
Kerwin.Where is your heaven on earth today?
This is what the sriptures say:2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
***except there come a falling away first***,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself ***above all that is called God***, or that is worshipped;
***so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God***, ***shewing himself that he is God***.Is that your heaven?
I can see no heaven on earth,but a falling away instead.
And the son of perdition in the temple of God.
Please explain.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is no place that is not under the reign of God.
Kerwin.You live in this world dont You?
2 Corinthians 4:4 ***In whom the god of this world*** hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Zion is just a spiritual city where all the righteous dwell in.
Not a kingdom as yet. Babylon the great is a kingdom.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:28) Wakeup, I am not sure what your last post had to do with what I wrote.
Kerwin.This is wat you wrote.
Quote
There is no place that is not under the reign of God.GOD IS TRULY IN CHARGE,BUT THIS WORLD IS IN THE HANDS OF THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.
THERE IS NO KINGDOM OF GOD SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE CRACKS FLOURISHING.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:28) Wakeup, I am not sure what your last post had to do with what I wrote.
Kerwin.This is wat you wrote.
Quote
There is no place that is not under the reign of God.GOD IS TRULY IN CHARGE,BUT THIS WORLD IS IN THE HANDS OF THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.
THERE IS NO KINGDOM OF GOD SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE CRACKS FLOURISHING.wakeup.
Wake,God is in charge means we are in the kingdom of God. The difference is that he allows us to choose between sin and righteousness and suffer the consequence of sin.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,13:08) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:28) Wakeup, I am not sure what your last post had to do with what I wrote.
Kerwin.This is wat you wrote.
Quote
There is no place that is not under the reign of God.GOD IS TRULY IN CHARGE,BUT THIS WORLD IS IN THE HANDS OF THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.
THERE IS NO KINGDOM OF GOD SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE CRACKS FLOURISHING.wakeup.
Wake,God is in charge means we are in the kingdom of God. The difference is that he allows us to choose between sin and righteousness and suffer the consequence of sin.
Kerwin.Yes,but thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth,as in heaven,and Jesus will be
kings of kings in his kingdom.
Earth is not as heaven today.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,08:32) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,13:08) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:28) Wakeup, I am not sure what your last post had to do with what I wrote.
Kerwin.This is wat you wrote.
Quote
There is no place that is not under the reign of God.GOD IS TRULY IN CHARGE,BUT THIS WORLD IS IN THE HANDS OF THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.
THERE IS NO KINGDOM OF GOD SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE CRACKS FLOURISHING.wakeup.
Wake,God is in charge means we are in the kingdom of God. The difference is that he allows us to choose between sin and righteousness and suffer the consequence of sin.
Kerwin.Yes,but thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth,as in heaven,and Jesus will be
kings of kings in his kingdom.
Earth is not as heaven today.wakeup.
Wakeup,You are correct that God's kingdom on earth is not the same as in heaven and his will is not done as it is done in heaven.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,14:56) As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….Hmmmm……….. You are at odds with scripture, Kerwin.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2013,16:24) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:19) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,07:31) Okay, just so we have it STRAIGHT this time: Kerwin, do you believe that flesh and BONE can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Do you believe that flesh and BLOOD can enter the kingdom of God? YES or NO?
Mike,I have my beliefs but I at times set them aside to study.
I believe that the term “flesh and blood” is a first Century idiom that means mortal body.
Therefore the mortal body cannot inherit the new world or the new heaven. As to the current world, the mortal body exists and at the least might be able to enter current heaven. All the evidence in Scripture seems to show that the human body will be just as it is today but changed so that cannot perish.
The current human body does exist in the current kingdom of God as it is on earth.
As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
Kerwin.Where is your heaven on earth today?
This is what the sriptures say:2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
***except there come a falling away first***,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself ***above all that is called God***, or that is worshipped;
***so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God***, ***shewing himself that he is God***.Is that your heaven?
I can see no heaven on earth,but a falling away instead.
And the son of perdition in the temple of God.
Please explain.wakeup.
Wakeup,There is no place that is not under the reign of God.
Kerwin.You live in this world dont You?
2 Corinthians 4:4 ***In whom the god of this world*** hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Zion is just a spiritual city where all the righteous dwell in.
Not a kingdom as yet. Babylon the great is a kingdom.wakeup.
We can see the mind of Kerwin in action here, Wakeup.I don't WANT Jesus to have been anything other than a flesh human being just like me, so I'll have to start doctoring clear teachings in scripture to make my WISHES be the truth.
First, I'll have to find a way to discredit the scripture that says flesh CAN'T inherit the kingdom of God. So I'll pretend that the EARTH, as it is right now, IS the kingdom of God to support my wish. And as support for my claim that the corrupt earth IS the kingdom of God, I'll point out that God is King over EVERY realm.
Then all I have to do is PRETEND that all those scriptures that speak about letting God's Kingdom COME on earth, and all those scriptures that speak about the kingdom of God NOT being on earth, are just being understood in the wrong way by others.
It never ends with Kerwin.
Kerwin, wise up man! We do NOT dwell in “the kingdom of God” right now. Flesh CANNOT enter or inherit the kingdom of God. End of story.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2014,08:23) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,14:56) As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….Hmmmm……….. You are at odds with scripture, Kerwin.
Mike,You are at odds with that Scripture as it does not state only spirit bodies can enter heaven.
I am not at odds with that Scripture as there is plenty of evidence that “flesh and blood” means mortal body. You just choose to deny that evidence.
1st Corinthians 15:50
International Standard Version
Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.1st Corinthians 15:50
Weymouth New Testament
But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2014,08:23) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,14:56) As for my beliefs; then yes, a flesh, bone, and blood can enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….Hmmmm……….. You are at odds with scripture, Kerwin.
Mike,You are at odds with that Scripture as it does not state only spirit bodies can enter heaven.
How can I be at odds with it by taking it at FACE VALUE?You might not AGREE that those words should be taken at FACE VALUE – but surely you can't claim that I'm “at odds” with it for taking it at face value, can you?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) I am not at odds with that Scripture as there is plenty of evidence that “flesh and blood” means mortal body. You just choose to deny that evidence.
Show me the SCRIPTURAL evidence that supports what you say. (One scripture at a time, if there are more than one.)Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2014,16:42) 1st Corinthians 15:50
International Standard Version
Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.1st Corinthians 15:50
Weymouth New Testament
But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable.
That's right, Kerwin. We will need a DIFFERENT kind of body to inherit God's kingdom. The mortal flesh and blood body we all have right now cannot enter.But first, you must realize that the men who produced those scriptures you quoted are PARAPHRASING the Greek words “flesh and blood”. They are GUESSING those words mean “mortal body”.
And secondly, I highly doubt that the men who made those translations above were thinking the same thing you think. They were thinking that we must get a DIFFERENT kind of body, because bodies of flesh and blood – which just happen to be mortal – cannot enter or inherit the kingdom of God.
I seriously doubt either one of those translators was thinking that we would need to get new, non-corruptible FLESH and BLOOD bodies to enter heaven.
In other words, I doubt they had in mind IMMORTAL flesh and blood bodies that could live in heaven when they translated it as they did.
So, let's back up a step, forget the PARAPHRASES, and take the words Paul wrote at FACE VALUE for a second. Then what? If you take his words at face value, don't your words CONTRADICT his scriptural words?
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