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I have been taught and accepted that the default position of humanity is, because of Adams ,sin that they are destined for eternal torment
But I am doubting this position It seems so much against the nature of God to punish a person who for all of their life all that they have known is , for example, a Black magic lifestyle, where there was no mention of God or Jesus
God knows that billions of people born are destined for eternal torment Why doesnt he stop this carnage,is a question in my mind
I am considering a Universalist position One where eventually allpeople will be savedQuote (Guncher @ Nov. 16 2012,03:33) I have been taught and accepted that the default position of humanity is, because of Adams ,sin that they are destined for eternal torment
But I am doubting this position It seems so much against the nature of God to punish a person who for all of their life all that they have known is , for example, a Black magic lifestyle, where there was no mention of God or Jesus
God knows that billions of people born are destined for eternal torment Why doesnt he stop this carnage,is a question in my mind
I am considering a Universalist position One where eventually allpeople will be saved
Hi Guncher, welcome to H-net.The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
…distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.The people here are some of the most well studied Christians you will find;
and we all have a lot to say. Again welcome; hope your stay here will be a blessing.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGuncher, welcome to Heaven net.
I agree that this teaching goes against the character of God but you cannot overlook the justice of God. Below is what I arrived at after years of searching:
Hell – Many teach that nearly all the people who have ever lived will suffer in eternal torment in hell. This has been based on a translation of the word aion which has translated as eternal, everlasting, forever this is offered as the proof within the scriptures that punishment goes on forever,
However the translation for aion only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected. Best translated as “The entirety of time for the object being discussed”. Hence when applied to God it is certainly to be considered unending, when applied to smoke rising, until the consumption of the item being burned, and to the torment of the wicked, until all has been paid. God will not torture a non-believer for eternity
For those being punished, the punishment will be proportional to their “sins” ending in annihilation. Eternal life is promised to believers and gifted to adherents, it is not something possessed by all of mankind. Eternal torment is not torment for eternity but torment to completion with eternal consequences. This concept is in keeping with the justice that God requires but with the Love that God is.Lake of Fire – I believe that when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The trouble was God knew that the sin in satan would spread and ruin all of Heaven itself. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to Gods glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed). But if He were to throw satan in prior to his sins being apparent to the rest of Heavens inhabitants, they would not see the Love and Justice of God as obviously satan was popular and I do not believe that satan had done anything openly evil (something Heaven’s inhabitants probably didn't understand anyway).
I believe it was at this point God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked and to show the length He would go and the price He would pay to redeem His creation if it was possible.
We know that God has His faithful angels and we're told satan has his but I believe that there are still those sitting on the fence. In Revelation where we are told that war breaks out in heaven and this is where I think the host of heaven has had their fill of satan's ways and expel him and his from heaven.
As Christ begins His reign, satan will be thrown into the abyss. After a thousand years he will be released from his prison to further demonstrate both the inclination of flesh to sin and why satan cannot be redeemed and has to be thrown into the lake of fire.
Now God, who would have been reduced in stature had He have tried to explain His actions, is glorified for His; Grace, Wisdom, Holiness, Love and Forgiveness. He has also gained more sons proven through fire than He lost to satan.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (Guncher @ Nov. 15 2012,10:33) It seems so much against the nature of God to punish a person who for all of their life all that they have known is , for example, a Black magic lifestyle, where there was no mention of God or Jesus.
John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.John 9:41
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.Welcome Guncher. I hope those scriptures help.
hi Guncher
welcome to HN
your question is natural as could be ,and it his the intention of God to save most of them ,but not in the same time ,but the same choices will be on hand in those times ,
Guncher,
This very thing is why so many people get offended at God and find something else to believe.Let me share in a couple of way that is not as harsh or threating to us.
Lets say your great grandfather from 10 generation back was a man before his time who figured out the DNA and GENES of our seed and knew somehow that if he would mix some of his chemicals and drank it that it would cause a gene to turn off when it was suppose to shape the hands of the fetus to erase the web part. (Look up how the fetus is formed in the womb as it progress and you will see).
Just as suspected his first child was with web hands. It worked. The only problem was there was no way to reverse this process and so all of his decedents including you were born with web hands and had to either deal with it or have surgery to correct it.
Question is, who's fault is it? Why me and why are my children going to have to deal with this?
Answer is, it's you're grandparent who is at fault, but because of the truth found in Gen 1:11, that seed will reproduce after it's own kind.Another thought is that, say the same grandparent for some reason hated the thought of a God and, (for arguments sake there is a God) made it a goal to teach his kids and grand kids that there is no God and was very diligent to make sure all of his decedents were fully compliant with his views and would punish those who did not agree with him.
Now we come to you, who don't believe in God and salvation and then wonder why you would go to an eternal hell.
We live in a time where we don't see all the mistakes our fore fathers have made that we reap.
The bible says that we will reap what we sow. Sometimes it is our decedents that reap what we have sown. This is the bad side.
On the good side, if your fore fathers where God fearing people and passed down their knowledge of God and encouraged their kid to continue in the faith you would be reaping something different.I believe God wants all to come to a salvation knowledge of Jesus but if you refuse Him you will reap what you sow or your decedents will.
Quote (Guncher @ Nov. 15 2012,22:33) I have been taught and accepted that the default position of humanity is, because of Adams ,sin that they are destined for eternal torment
But I am doubting this position It seems so much against the nature of God to punish a person who for all of their life all that they have known is , for example, a Black magic lifestyle, where there was no mention of God or Jesus
God knows that billions of people born are destined for eternal torment Why doesnt he stop this carnage,is a question in my mind
I am considering a Universalist position One where eventually allpeople will be saved
Gunther,I would like all people to be saved but that is not the choice they make and that choice comes from the desires of their own soul. It is not an issue of Adam's sin.
To change a soul is to destroy it and destroying a person's soul is to destroy them because their soul is the essential person.
Adam's sin has the effect of chaining mankind to sin and Jesus sets our souls, and so us, free from those chains.
The souls of some love sin while the souls of others love righteousness. God knows which are which, even among those that in their non-willful ignorance, are still chained to sin. Those that sin in non-willful ignorance will receive fewer stripes that those who sin in knowledge or willful ignorance.
hi
Rev 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”WE ALL BE JUDGED BY WHAT WE HAVE DONE OR NOT DONE THAN WE SHOULD HAVE
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 15 2013,12:47) LOVING GOD IS LOVING RIGHTEOUSNESS
THow can you love the true God when you dont even know him?
How can you love the true Jesus when you dont even know him?
For no one knows the Son and no one knows the Father.
How can you love the true God that is a stranger to you?You love the god of your imagination.
And you love the son of your imagination.
And your brothers love the god of their own imaginations.So we end up with many, many, gods loved and worshipped.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 18 2013,03:26) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 15 2013,12:47) LOVING GOD IS LOVING RIGHTEOUSNESS
THow can you love the true God when you dont even know him?
How can you love the true Jesus when you dont even know him?
For no one knows the Son and no one knows the Father.
How can you love the true God that is a stranger to you?You love the god of your imagination.
And you love the son of your imagination.
And your brothers love the god of their own imaginations.So we end up with many, many, gods loved and worshipped.
wakeup.
Wtheir is only one righteousness not two ;ONLY ONE ;AND IT IS GOD THAT SUPPLY IT ;
YOU CANNOT LOVE GOD AND NOT LOVE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS;
ALL OF HIS TRUTH,LOVE ,WORKS ARE DONE WITHIN HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ,
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I KNOW
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2013,08:52) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 18 2013,03:26) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 15 2013,12:47) LOVING GOD IS LOVING RIGHTEOUSNESS
THow can you love the true God when you dont even know him?
How can you love the true Jesus when you dont even know him?
For no one knows the Son and no one knows the Father.
How can you love the true God that is a stranger to you?You love the god of your imagination.
And you love the son of your imagination.
And your brothers love the god of their own imaginations.So we end up with many, many, gods loved and worshipped.
wakeup.
Wtheir is only one righteousness not two ;ONLY ONE ;AND IT IS GOD THAT SUPPLY IT ;
YOU CANNOT LOVE GOD AND NOT LOVE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS;
ALL OF HIS TRUTH,LOVE ,WORKS ARE DONE WITHIN HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ,
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I KNOW
T.I know because Jesus said so.
No man knows the Son and the Farther.
And you said the Word is a creature.wakeup.
w
Quote I know because Jesus said so.
No man knows the Son and the Farther.
And you said the Word is a creature.the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ;
you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,ECT
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 20 2013,03:08) w Quote I know because Jesus said so.
No man knows the Son and the Farther.
And you said the Word is a creature.the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ;
you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,ECT
T.Quote the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ; you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,EC
You said:
Words do not become a living being.IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?
IS HE NOT A LIVING BEING?
IS HE THAT CREATED ALL THINGS NOT A LIVING BEING?IT SEEMS THAT CONFUSION HAS SET IN LIKE CONCRETE.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 22 2013,04:40) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 20 2013,03:08) w Quote I know because Jesus said so.
No man knows the Son and the Farther.
And you said the Word is a creature.the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ;
you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,ECT
T.Quote the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ; you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,EC
You said:
Words do not become a living being.IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?
IS HE NOT A LIVING BEING?
IS HE THAT CREATED ALL THINGS NOT A LIVING BEING?IT SEEMS THAT CONFUSION HAS SET IN LIKE CONCRETE.
wakeup.
WQuote IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD? IT IS YOU THAT DENY THAT CHRIST HIS “THE WORD OF GOD”
AND SO HE IS NOT WORDS THAT GOD SPEAKS BUT A BEING ,THE FIRST BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THE FATHER ,
AND THAT HIS NAME IS “THE WORD ”
Quote IT SEEMS THAT CONFUSION HAS SET IN LIKE CONCRETE 
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,10:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 22 2013,04:40) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 20 2013,03:08) w Quote I know because Jesus said so.
No man knows the Son and the Farther.
And you said the Word is a creature.the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ;
you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,ECT
T.Quote the fact that you do not understand scriptures in truth ,does not make me the false end result ; you resist the spirit of truth ;and so need to explain scriptures by braking the written words of God ,
we prove to you that it is so ;but you can not see it ;THE WORD in scriptures John 1;1 and Col ;1;15-21 his a “HIM” not a “IT” WORDS DO NOT BECOME A LIVING BEING ,THEIR POWER RESIDE ONLY IN THE POWER OF THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM ;AND THAT CAN FULFILL THEM,
persons that are called by name “WATER” ARE NOT REAL WATER ,OR HILL” THEY ARE NOT A REAL HILL ,EC
You said:
Words do not become a living being.IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?
IS HE NOT A LIVING BEING?
IS HE THAT CREATED ALL THINGS NOT A LIVING BEING?IT SEEMS THAT CONFUSION HAS SET IN LIKE CONCRETE.
wakeup.
WQuote IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD? IT IS YOU THAT DENY THAT CHRIST HIS “THE WORD OF GOD”
AND SO HE IS NOT WORDS THAT GOD SPEAKS BUT A BEING ,THE FIRST BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THE FATHER ,
AND THAT HIS NAME IS “THE WORD ”
Quote IT SEEMS THAT CONFUSION HAS SET IN LIKE CONCRETE
T.Do you see/read things through a mirror?
Everything you see/read seems to be the opposite to
reality.wakeup.
W
It may seem that way to the confused person,but it is quite clear ,and truth according to scriptures,
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,22:03) W It may seem that way to the confused person,but it is quite clear ,and truth according to scriptures,
T.You are very good at spinning words dont you?
Like spinning my question;to a statement.Quote
IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?
unquote:This was a question, see,the question mark?
And you spin it to a statement.
Saying that I said; Jesus is not the Word of God.
Only wicked men do these kind of things.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 22 2013,18:17) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,22:03) W It may seem that way to the confused person,but it is quite clear ,and truth according to scriptures,
T.You are very good at spinning words dont you?
Like spinning my question;to a statement.Quote
IS JESUS NOT THE WORD OF GOD?
unquote:This was a question, see,the question mark?
And you spin it to a statement.
Saying that I said; Jesus is not the Word of God.
Only wicked men do these kind of things.wakeup.
wakeupfor the past 2 or 3 years we discussing the preexistence of the son of God called Jesus Christ and in heaven called THE WORD ,
and you still do not get it ,you try to confuse me ,but it does not work ,you try the same thing with Mike, you just keep believing in your twisted view ,and believing that we can not see you views ,you hardly use scriptures in the defense of your view, you are fighting the scriptures not me ,or Mike we just bring you t the water ,you don't wanted that's your problem,God is watching
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