What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 29 2014,03:48)

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2014,03:18) T, I can see Genes' argument as in every other case inheritance of the kingdom of God is spoken of it is the fruit of the spirit one lives by that is the context.   In addition 1 Corinthians 15:50 address the physical side with the words “nor does corruption inherit incorruptibility”. So it seems Gene is saying the first part is about the spiritual side of man and the second part is about the physical side.  I have no disagreement with that even though I favor a different interpretation. k WHAT SCRIPTURES SAYS IS THIS ;THAT UNLESS WE BECOME SPIRITUALLY INCLINE AND FULL OF TRUTH IN GOD'S WAY WE WILL NOT ENTER THIS IS FOR SOME ONLY ,INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ,AND THAT WE CANNOT ENTER THAT KINGDOM UNLESS WE ARE CHANGED INTO WHAT IT TAKES TO GO THERE , BUT THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS

T,

The second part of 1 Corinthians 15:50 which is “nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. ” is often ignored as if it is extraneous.  

It tells us that which is mortal cannot enter the world to come.  In this world even the sun is mortal though it has a long lifespan.

This passage speaks of those who fruit is bad because their spirit is bad not inheriting the kingdom of heaven.   They have surrendered to the forces of spiritual evil.

1 Corinthians 6:9
New International Version (NIV)

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]

Footnotes:

   1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.

Galatians 5:19-21
New International Version (NIV)

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5
New International Version (NIV)

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a]
Footnotes:

   Ephesians 5:5 Or kingdom of the Messiah and God

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,04:44)

Hi T, Best to stick with what is written and not ADD

Nick,

People often add. It is written that Jesus was buried in a flesh body, Hebrews 2:14, and raised in a flesh body, Luke 24:39, as a type of the final resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 1 Corinthians 15:35-38, and yet this does not fit the doctrine of some so they add to what is written in order to make it fit with their chosen teaching. They do this instead of considering their interpretation of certain passage(s) may be wrong.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
You say
'It is written that Jesus was buried in a flesh body, Hebrews 2:14, and raised in a flesh body, Luke 24:39, as a type of the final resurrection”

You do know that he stopped on earth in his original body to satisfy the prophecy of David, the sign of jonah and the promise of John 2 before being raised to heaven??

Yes folk often add unwisely

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2014,12:17)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 28 2014,16:54) Jesus was referencing that the Kingdom of God comes to be in a person…………… Matthew 21:31 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.” Gene, do YOU have prostitutes and tax collectors INSIDE OF YOU? Mark 9:1 That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Will they be able to SEE the kingdom of God as it arrives INSIDE OF THEM? Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Will this man enter INSIDE OF HIMSELF with one eye? There is more to the story than that ONE teaching, Gene.

Hi MB,
What does having the Spirit of Christ ruling in men have to do with these ludicrous suggestions of yours?

[kerwin]

Nick,

Quote

You do know that he stopped on earth in his original body to satisfy the prophecy of David, the sign of jonah and the promise of John 2 before being raised to heaven??

That is not what Scripture says. What is says instead is:

Acts 1:3
New International Version (NIV)

3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

He spend 40 days on earth after his resurrection giving evidence he was alive and speaking about the kingdom of God. His was already fully raised from the dead when gave evidence he was alive.

That is what resurrection means. Paul in both passages is speaking of resurrection not ascension. Including Jesus' ascension in his resurrection because Paul choice of the word “raised” is adding to Scripture. Instead test your chosen interpretation of the passage involved in the controversy.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
No doubt he was FULLY ALIVE in the Spirit.
But his being lifted up, as with us, had not been completed

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Do you think when we are raised it is just to stand again on the earth??

[kerwin]

T,

I am sorry but I am unable to process all those quotes. You need to break it down and give pointers so I know where you are coming from. Thank you.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2014,04:24)

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,13:20) We are told that Jesus body did not see corruption but that his soul descended to Sheol/Hades. Is that really explicitly said in scripture, Kerwin?  Which scripture, please?

Mike,

Acts 2:27
New English Translation (NET)

27 because you will not leave my soul in Hades,
nor permit your Holy One to experience decay.

It is a quote from Psalm 16:8-11 (see Septuagint). NET translates Psalms 16:8-11 from another source.

Psalm 16:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay.
Footnotes:

Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world
Psalm 16:10 Lit give
Psalm 16:10 Or godly one
Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pit

Or are you speaking about the word “descended”?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2014,04:21)

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,11:33) Mike, 2 Enoch What point would you like to make with that Enoch passage?

Mike,

It is the second book of Enoch and speaks of the third heaven as being the physical paradise of Eden. Paul also speaks of the third heaven being paradise but he does not say if it is or is not Eden.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2014,14:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2014,04:24) Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,13:20) We are told that Jesus body did not see corruption but that his soul descended to Sheol/Hades. Is that really explicitly said in scripture, Kerwin?  Which scripture, please? Mike, Acts 2:27 New English Translation (NET) 27 because you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor permit your Holy One to experience decay. Or are you speaking about the word “descended”?

I've never understood that to mean Jesus WENT to Hades, but God just didn't LEAVE him there.

I understand it to mean Jesus' soul didn't GO TO Hades, like most of the others who die. Ie: My soul won't be abandoned in Hades like everyone else's soul. And my body won't decay like everyone else's body.

Are there any scripture that support one view or the other?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,11:33)

Mike, 2 Enoch Quote Chapter 8, VIII 1 And those men took me thence, and led me up on to the third heaven, and placed me there; and I looked downwards, and saw the produce of these places, such as has never been known for goodness. 2 And I saw all the sweet-flowering trees and beheld their fruits, which were sweet-smelling, and all the foods borne (by them) bubbling with fragrant exhalation. 3 And in the midst of the trees that of life, in that place whereon the Lord rests, when he goes up into paradise; and this tree is of ineffable goodness and fragrance, and adorned more than every existing thing; and on all sides (it is) in form gold-looking and vermilion and fire-like and covers all, and it has produce from all fruits. 4 Its root is in the garden at the earth’s end. 5 And paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility. 6 And two springs come out which send forth honey and milk, and their springs send forth oil and wine, and they separate into four parts, and go round with quiet course, and go down into the PARADISE OF EDEN, between corruptibility and incorruptibility. 7 And thence they go forth along the earth, and have a revolution to their circle even as other elements. 8 And here there is no unfruitful tree, and every place is blessed. 9 And (there are) three hundred angels very bright, who keep the garden, and with incessant sweet singing and never-silent voices serve the Lord throughout all days and hours. 10 And I said: How very sweet is this place, and those men said to me:

Kerwin,

The writing says this place is “at the end of the earth”. (Verse 4)

It says this place is BETWEEN corruptibility and incorruptibility……. so probably not “all the way to heaven itself”?  

I didn't see any information in the part you quoted that would lead me to believe Enoch was there in a flesh human body.  (In Book I, he says his visits to heaven were in “dreams” and “visions”.)

But did you notice the appearance of the 300 angels in verse 9?  He called them “very bright”.  That sounds a lot like Jesus' appearance at the transfiguration – or his appearance to Paul on the road to Damascus.

“Very bright” is not a phrase I would use to describe the flesh body of any human being though.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
acts 2
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

[mikeboll64]

Yes Nick,

But does that verse actually say Jesus WENT to “hell” at all?

Acts 2:27
NIV ©
because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.

MSG ©
I know you'll never dump me in Hades; I'll never even smell the stench of death.

BBE ©
For you will not let my soul be in hell and you will not give up your Holy One to destruction.

I guess I've always understood it more like the versions above.  I never thought Jesus “descended to hell” at all.

I could be wrong, which is why I was asking Kerwin for any scriptures that would support one view over the other.

Do you know of any?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2014,13:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2014,12:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 28 2014,16:54) Jesus was referencing that the Kingdom of God comes to be in a person…………… Matthew 21:31 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.” Gene, do YOU have prostitutes and tax collectors INSIDE OF YOU? Mark 9:1 That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Will they be able to SEE the kingdom of God as it arrives INSIDE OF THEM? Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Will this man enter INSIDE OF HIMSELF with one eye? There is more to the story than that ONE teaching, Gene. Hi MB, What does having the Spirit of Christ ruling in men have to do with these ludicrous suggestions of yours?

Nick,

My point is that heaven is a physical kingdom that some will literally enter.

It is not some spiritual place inside the heart of a man. It is a REAL place where God, Jesus, and REAL angels dwell.

Gene says it is not a real place people can ENTER. What do you say?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The kingdom of heaven is how Matthew refers to it but Mark and Luke say kingdom of God
Some may enter heaven but the home of man is earth.

[NickHassan]

hi MB,
He preached to those in prison
1Peter 3

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Remember the sign of Jonah?
Jonah went there too.

[NickHassan]

Hi Mb,

3.Psalm 30:3
O Lord, You have brought up my soul from Sheol; You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.

4.Psalm 49:15
But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Selah.

5.Psalm 86:13
For Your lovingkindness toward me is great, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2014,05:42)

Hi Mb, 3.Psalm 30:3 O Lord, You have brought up my soul from Sheol; You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit. 4.Psalm 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Selah. 5.Psalm 86:13 For Your lovingkindness toward me is great, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.

N

what is your point

it seems your scriptures supports Mike view not yours right yes

[Author]

Posts