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Kerwin…….it has nothing to do with this subjet, but it certainly does with some very important subjects we have we are talking about here expecially about “the so-called “freewill”, and also hell and the lake of fire mentioned here often times. Just give it a read and please let me know what you think. I am sure you at least will read it with an open mind and give it an honest evaluation. I personally agree with the article so please do it for me OK.
Then perhaps you should cite from it in appropriated threads or post the whole in Truth or Tradition and test it in teamwork with others.
Hello everybody,
Mike wrote: The Greek word “monogenes” is from the Greek word “monos”, meaning “alone, one, only”……. and the Greek word “ginomai”, meaning “generated, came into existence, created, made”. Strong says “ginomai” is: a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen”-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being)…..
This is not correct, Mike is misinformed here. The Greek word “monogenes” is from the Greek word “monos” and the Greek word “genos” NOT “ginomai” as Mike said.
See here: http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm
The only begotten Son is the only offspring of God the Father. He is equal to and just like the Father in type as an offspring would naturally be. He is not the same person as the Father but a different person as an offspring would naturally be. He is less than the Father in authority as an offspring would naturally be. He eternally existed in the past within the Father in a pre-begotten state and at one point, the Father brought Him forth and through Him created all of creation. Together they always existed as the fullness of God-two persons, each God in type. The Holy Spirit in the context of that which dwells within believers is their inner-spirits united as one Spirit that extends from them. I hope this brings clarity to what I understand as I pursue the knowledge of God. I am completely aware that I may not be completely accurate but this is my best understanding so far in my pursuit. I have noticed through some things that I have read tonight in past posts that ya’ll do not really reflect accurately what I have presented here in the past. Maybe this brings some clarity. If not, do not hesitate to ask me for further clarity. I hope ya’ll are doing well…LU
Hi LU,
Welcome back.
My feeling is that we should not apply human concepts to what happens in the spiritual realm.
We should not follow the samples and of others because we fear God
God does not call Himself a PERSON.
It is a theological term men have applied rather dangerously to God.
And it defines a separateness to the Father and the Son whereas they are said to be one in Spirit.
Hi LU,
Do you agree that Jesus of Nazareth was a man found fit to be a vessel for the Spirit?
Do you believe that in the one Spirit God and His Son can indwell those who follow Jesus into this anointing?
Hi LU,
When I speak of the Father and the Son it is as Spirit.
God is spirit -and the Word was with God and was God.
The Word was made flesh -Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
hi LU
and as for the word meaning you present ;tell me what would be changed in scriptures by it can you tell us ?
Hi Nick, Thanks for the welcome back.
you said:
Hi LU,
Welcome back.
My feeling is that we should not apply human concepts to what happens in the spiritual realm.
We should not follow the samples and of others because we fear God
God does not call Himself a PERSON.
It is a theological term men have applied rather dangerously to God.
And it defines a separateness to the Father and the Son whereas they are said to be one in Spirit.
It is God that is defining Himself with terms and concepts that, through the design of His creation, we understand. I believe it is wise to accept that. He is the Father and the only begotten God is His Son. Therefore we know the Father would have authority over the Son and we also know that they are equal in type because that is what true offsprings and their Father’s are. Your true offspring son, for instance is equally as human as you, and you have had authority over your true offspring while he was under your care. It is not complicated! Keep it simple. Trust His word which says that Jesus is the only begotten God, as well as the only begotten Son of God and that YHWH is His Father.
Regarding calling something a “person” well, just calling them a person, doesn’t make them a person, that’s right Nick. The reason the Father and the Son are called persons is because they each have the characteristics of a person. They have a personality, they are intelligent, they create things, they each have a mind, they each have a spirit, they each have emotions, they each communicate and use personal pronouns that refer to themselves and they speak in the first person and second person, etc. I’m sure most all of our thoughts about who and what they are fall short of reality but we do the best with the limited knowledge and understanding that we have.
More from Nick:
Hi LU,
Do you agree that Jesus of Nazareth was a man found fit to be a vessel for the Spirit?
Do you believe that in the one Spirit God and His Son can indwell those who follow Jesus into this anointing?
Nick, where in the scriptures do you see that Jesus was a “vessel for the Spirit?” Please show me this phrase so I can look at the context.
While you are at it, show me where it is in the scriptures that you find the phrase “the one Spirit God.” I cannot answer your question until I see this phrase in context.
Thanks!
Nick you also asked:
Hi LU,
When I speak of the Father and the Son it is as Spirit.
God is spirit -and the Word was with God and was God.
The Word was made flesh -Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Nick, Jesus became flesh, do not say that Jesus “came in the flesh”. There is a difference.
Hi Kerwin and terraricca, nice to see you.
T-regarding your question, scripture wouldn’t change. Your understanding of scripture would change.
LU
in what way would it change my understanding ,for I believe that Jesus preexisted his coming in the flesh
Hi LU,
Because they are described with characteristics we would associate with PERSONS does that give us the right to label them as such?
If you are a worldly theologian you might dare to do so.
But we should not use words God does not use.
Besides describing our Father is not important.
Knowing Him and being known by Him is.
T-Do you believe that Jesus, before creation, was created and thus a creation OR was He brought forth as an actual offspring and the same type of being as the one who beget Him?
LU
the scriptures says this ;
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:10 He(Jesus) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature/form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Fatherso I believe just this all of it ,
Yes Nick, I think we can call the Father and the Son “persons” because it helps to explain how we understand them. Perhaps you need clarification as to how I would define “person.” My definition: a distinct, indivisible entity containing a body (spirit form or physical form), and also a mind, will and emotions, which posesses the ability to think intelligently and create.
Have you found the verses which use your phraseology in the other posts?
Great T. Now how do you understand “firstborn” as applied to the Son? Do you understand it to mean first created or first born?
LU
well to me ;firstborn /bring forth /first creation /all this tell me that Jesus was not always beside the father and like all things did not exist before the father /God start to create , and Jesus was his first creation through all things were created ,
T-that is where your understanding is sour. You think born means created. You were born and before you were born, you existed for several months within your mother in a living manner. You were kicking, moving, digesting, etc. Do you understand that you cannot come to the conclusion that the Son was created from the term firstborn.
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