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@ Nich
Hi T,
And why was there no such manifestations when the Spirit was given by the apostles?
God is in charge and knows when men need a sign to believe.
but Christ give the holy spirit to his apotels before he went up to heaven ,the Pentecost was some thing else
Nick,
Hi KW,
The gifts of the Spirit come when the Spirit is given.
Jesus received the Spirit at the Jordan.
You assume that when the Spirit landed on Jesus that it means that he was given the Spirit at that time but that is not written. It is what you think happened.
If you are just speaking of the Spirit in it role as Gift Giver and not in its role as Advocate then what you say sounds like a reasonable assumption. The Advocate is a thing of the new covenant as it only came to Jesus before he ascended to heaven for that is why Jesus tells us “For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. ”
On the other hand the Spirit in it role of Gift Giver came to those in the old testament.
Nick,
I can say what happened literally but Scripture already tells us that. I can make a case that Jesus received the Spirit in its role as Gift Giver but that case is circumstantial and is helped out by Jewish immersion practices of the time. That case is why I agree that the Spirit was given to Jesus in it role of Gift Giver after he was immersed in the Jordon.
I believe he already had the Spirit in its role of Advocate as he did not sin before that even though tempted even as is common to human beings, such as himself. The only way to do that is to live by the Spirit that is given to the person that does so.
Hi KW,
So you guess he did not sin because he was already anointed?
God was with him[acts 10]
From the Jordan God was in him and using Him to manifest every aspect of His nature
Nick,
So you guess he did not sin because he was already anointed?
No that is not a guess as the only way you can live a truly righteous and holy life despite being tempted as it common to humanity is to live by the Spirit.
Kerwin……..The way I see it is that Jesus was a son of God at berth, in the same sense as Adam was, who is also called a son of God. Because it was God who supplied there DNA directly himself. And just as Adam was a son of God in a physical sense so was Jesus, but just as Adam lacked the holy spirit in him to be a spiritual son of God so did Jesus, until the Jordan river where God’s full spirit desended and took it’s abode in him, at that time his body became the temple of the living God. “The Father who is God was dwelling in him. That is why Jesus could say the Father was “in” him, because He actually was “in” him. That is why Jesus could say this, “the son of man (Jesus the man) could do “nothing” of himself , the Father who was “IN” him “HE” does the works. It was God the Father who is spirit that desended down into Jesus, it was God himself who came into Jesus at the Jordan river, he was in Jesus guiding him and directing all the things Jesus was doing and even at times spoke directly through Jesus’ mouth himself. God was truly in the man Jesus , but none of that every made Jesus the God that was “in” him. Jesus was an ordinary human being from his berth nothing more and nothing less, he is still a son of man, even when he returns to rule this earth he will be a son of man, and a son of God just as Adam and all the rest of us who believe are son of God also.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene.
Nick,
And scripture does not record any anointing of Jesus till the Jordan
Scripture does not tell a lot about Jesus before he was immersed by John. The writers seem to be more concerned about his ministry. The only anointing I remember them speaking of was for his death. The rest you have to figure out.
Acts also states God anointed him but does not give a when.
Hi KW,
Is not the bible generally the record of the works of God among men?
Would some works be ignored?
Nick,
Hi KW,
Is not the bible generally the record of the works of God among men?
Would some works be ignored?
Yes, as it tells you it did not record all of Jesus’ miracles. You can see that you have to use more than one witnessed account to get more of the details to happen during an advent. It is held, but not written in Scripture, that you discern the message of the gospel of salvation from what is written in Scripture.
Nick,
Close enough.
John 20:30New English Translation (NET Bible)
30 Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
There are two things I know of and they may be two different ways of saying the same thing.
Matthew 3:13-17New English Translation (NET Bible)
The Baptism of Jesus13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John to be baptized by him in the Jordan River. 14 But John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you come to me?” 15 So Jesus replied to him, “Let it happen now, for it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John yielded to him. 16 After Jesus was baptized, just as he was coming up out of the water, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my one dear Son; in him I take great delight.”
It is clear from Matthew that the immersion occurs that all righteousness would be fulfilled.
John 1:31-34New English Translation (NET Bible)
31 I did not recognize him, but I came baptizing with water so that he could be revealed to Israel.”
32 Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending like a dove from heaven, and it remained on him. 33 And I did not recognize him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘The one on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining—this is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have both seen and testified that this man is the Chosen One of God.”
It is clear from John that it was done so that John would see and therefore be able to bear witness to Israel that he was the Christ.
I am disturbed by the apparent contradiction where in Matthew John knew who Jesus was before he was immersed but in John he did not.
Nick,
Hi KW,
So you think the rebirth from above is not recorded?
Yet we are meant to follow?
I believe it is there but it is hidden and you need to use reason directed by the Spirit to find it.
Nick,
Hi KW,
So the witness to John was all it was about??
That is what Scripture clearly teaches us though other things can be hidden.
Nick,
HiKW,
So what happened at the Jordan?
Was it just a pantomime?
I answered your question in another thread.
K
If Christ received the holy spirit it seems only to drive him into the desert where he would be tested, at the end of his 40 days
So the holy spirit has sustained him for those 40 days right , because Christ had the holy spirit sins birth , right but the holy spirit does not stay on a constant base , he is given as needed by the father right?
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