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Jesus…………Said in this way you shall prey ” (our) Father in Heaven Holy be (thy) name, (thy) kingdom come (thy) WILL be done, give (us) this day (OUR) daily bread, forgive (US) of our trespasses and lead (US) not into temptation, But deliver (US) from the Evil, for (Thine) is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever. So thinker who is the (OUR), the (thy), the (US), and the (Thine) Spoken of Here. Jesus includes himself with the OUR and the US, and the Thine and the thy as someone else Why do Trinitarians exclude Jesus from HIS (Obedience to the FATHER) and HIS subjection under HIM. Scripture says Jesus Christ to the glory of the FATHER but Trinitarians say Jesus Christ to the glory of Jesus Christ. Jesus showed us how to pray to the FATHER but trinitarians show us how to pray to Jesus to the exclusion of the Father, something Jesus never did. Thinker dump the Trinitarian garbage and learn from what Jesus said and worship who Jesus worshiped brother.
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,11:47) Jesus…………Said in this way you shall prey ” (our) Father in Heaven Holy be (thy) name, (thy) kingdom come (thy) WILL be done, give (us) this day (OUR) daily bread, forgive (US) of our trespasses and lead (US) not into temptation, But deliver (US) from the Evil, for (Thine) is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever. So thinker who is the (OUR), the (thy), the (US), and the (Thine) Spoken of Here. Jesus includes himself with the OUR and the US, and the Thine and the thy as someone else Why do Trinitarians exclude Jesus from HIS (Obedience to the FATHER) and HIS subjection under HIM. Scripture says Jesus Christ to the glory of the FATHER but Trinitarians say Jesus Christ to the glory of Jesus Christ. Jesus showed us how to pray to the FATHER but trinitarians show us how to pray to Jesus to the exclusion of the Father, something Jesus never did. Thinker dump the Trinitarian garbage and learn from what Jesus said and worship who Jesus worshiped brother. peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………..gene
Gene,
Nonsense! Jesus was not including Himself in the “us.” He said to His disciples, “When YOU pray say this….Our Father which is in heaven….” Jesus was NOT including Himself. It is His kingdom just as much as it is His Father's,Quote Who has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son (Colossians 1:13) Why must you pit the scripture against itself?
thinker
thinker……..Where o where did you ever get that conclusion from. Jesus do not pray to GOD and He was not giving us and example of true prayer and He some who did not pray that way. You truly are Joking brother. Jesus said to Him that overcomes i will grant to sit in my kingdom even as i have overcome and and sit in my Fathers Kingdom, sure seems like there are two kingdoms mentioned here, and Jesus will rule Here on earth until the Father subjects all thing to him and then he turns the Kingdom over to the Father, and become subject to the one who subject all things to him, as scripture shows. Thinker if you would get rid of the false teachings of the trinity, the word of GOD would clear up for you, dump those false teachings brother, come out of the apostatized churches.
much peace and love to you brother…………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ July 22 2009,03:42) thinker……..Where o where did you ever get that conclusion from. Jesus do not pray to GOD and He was not giving us and example of true prayer and He some who did not pray that way. You truly are Joking brother. Jesus said to Him that overcomes i will grant to sit in my kingdom even as i have overcome and and sit in my Fathers Kingdom, sure seems like there are two kingdoms mentioned here, and Jesus will rule Here on earth until the Father subjects all thing to him and then he turns the Kingdom over to the Father, and become subject to the one who subject all things to him, as scripture shows. Thinker if you would get rid of the false teachings of the trinity, the word of GOD would clear up for you, dump those false teachings brother, come out of the apostatized churches. much peace and love to you brother…………………………gene
Gene,
You just don't get it. If the Father subjects all things to the Son then the Son is sovereign. And if the Son after that hands over the kingdom to the Father then He done it willingly and not because He was less than the Father.btw, there are NOT two kingdoms. Jesus said that He would come again in His Father's kingdom which is also His own kingdom. He sits at the Father's right hand ruling from the SAME throne.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2009,10:02) Hi TT,
Neither are there two gods sometimes made into one.
Or was it three you offered?
If the Son is less than the Father then how does it play out in your life? Do you obey the Father over the Son? If so tell me how you do it.thinker
Hi TT,
If you obey the Son you are doing the will of the Father.
It is written that way.The son wants us to remain WITHIN SCRIPTURE.
That way you have fellowship with both in the Spirit of God[2Jn9]Thinker……….Jesus was obediant to the Fathers WILL, saying I always do what pleases the FATHER, Jesus was not a GOD or He would be doing his will, but it say the son of man came (NOT) to do His (WILL) but the will of Him who sent HIM. Now with that understanding, what does scripture say about GOD ,” For GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNCIL OF HIS (OWN) WILL”. Now if Jesus came not to do (HIS) WILL and GOD does (ALL THINGS) after the council of HIS (OWN) WILL, obviously that excludes Jesus of being GOD. Thinker come out of those false Trinitarian and Preexistences teachings taught by the apostate churches. Brother you are sharp enough to see through those false teachings, why should you be rebuked at the return of Jesus, turning Him into a GOD is making Him the MAN OF SIN. “THOU SHALT HAVE (NO OTHER GOD) BESIDES ME”,worship who Jesus (the man) worshiped, obey who Jesus (the man) obeyed, Glorify who Jesus (the man) glorified, subject your WILL to the Will of the ONLY TRUE GOD , thats what Jesus (the man) did. Saying the son came (NOT) to do His Will but the WILL of Him who sent HIM. My prayer is that GOD will place these things in your heart and mind brother.
with much love and peace brother……………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2009,10:49) Hi TT,
If you obey the Son you are doing the will of the Father.
It is written that way.The son wants us to remain WITHIN SCRIPTURE.
That way you have fellowship with both in the Spirit of God[2Jn9]
Exactly! Therefore, the authority of Jesus is the authority of God. So why do you resist?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2009,07:20) Hi TT,
So the supplier is always also the ultimate source?
If a father turns over the family business to his son then that son becomes the ultimate source. Jesus is in full charge of the family business. Therefore John says that anything we ask of the Son He will give it to us if it be according to His will. You still haven't shown that I have my “hims” mixed up.thinker
Hi TT,
You think God [the Father] was not God for a time or was it just that the kingdom was given into the hands of His Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2009,11:41) Hi TT,
You think God [the Father] was not God for a time or was it just that the kingdom was given into the hands of His Son.
Nick,
You still have not shown that I have my “hims” mixed up.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2009,13:03) Hi TT,
If you cannot see it then who can convince you?
Then show I have my “hims” mixed up for the sake of others.thinker
Hi TT,
Context.
The context is from 1 Jn5.9 onwards where God has borne witness to His Son.
God, the Father of Jesus, also is spoken of in v 10, v11.We are to be believers in God and in His Son because the life of God for us is found in the Son by God's appointment. Then in Jesus we can approach boldly the throne of Grace
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,11:05) Hi TT,
You get your HIMS mixed up.Those who are one with Jesus are in the Will of God and God listens to us..
Clearly the proximity between trinity and idolatry is becoming plain to you.
Nick,Thinker does not have his “HIMS” mixed up. Show me a transition from the Son of God in this passage to God the Father. There is no transition. The rules of grammar state that a pronoun referrs to the last proper noun mentioned. In the passage, “Son of God” is the last proper noun before the first pronoun “him” is used. You are now twisting grammar to make a point. How far will you go?
TC27
Hi TC,
Read from v 9 onwards and you will see that it is God Who is spoken of.
We are believers in the Son as a group but it is God we approach.
Heb 10.22If you knew you were one with the Son of God why would you worship him as you would be woshiping yourself would you not?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2009,12:41) Hi TC,
Read from v 9 onwards and you will see that it is God Who is spoken of.
We are believers in the Son as a group but it is God we approach.
Heb 10.22If you knew you were one with the Son of God why would you worship him as you would be woshiping yourself would you not?
Nick,Why would you tell me to go back to verse 9? The Son of God is mentioned in verse 13 and then the “Him” is mentioned right after that. So going to verse nine means nothing. You negate proper grammar and simple reading.
TC27
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