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Hi DT,
YOU: One of the first passages that sent me down my current path is Isa 7:14 and we’re told it’s a prophesy pointing to Jesus; then I read the entire chapter and nowhere is there any mention of a “messiah” or this centuries later birth of a child that will save mankind. Yet every year at Christmas this single verse is quoted claiming it’s about Jesus’ birth and it’s a lie. Why doesn’t anyone see the error or more accurately, why is this error ignored and the lie perpetuated? The answer is simple, no one sees the error because no one has read it.
ME: Christians believe as the NT teaches, that the OT is filled with prophecies that hold dual fulfillment and the second fulfillments speak to Christ. Matthew 1 tells us that Isaiah 7 speaks to representing a dual fulfillment unto the promised Christ.
DT, seems to me that what you need to be arguing is that God most certainly did not establish dual fulfillments, to which He would reveal as such by the Messiah himself as well as others.
Honestly, when you think about it, God having certain events occur and certain prophecies fulfilled in the OT times to also represent future fulfillment with the coming Messiah to which hold greater meaning and purpose, is quite awesome!
You: DT, I referenced an existing thread on the topic you want to discuss and after my post to you I immediately went to that thread and responded to you.
Me: Nowhere in your responses did you inform me you were posting in the other thread; this is the first hearing of it. Telling me to go to that thread isn’t the same as “I posted a response” in another thread…communication is important.
You: Christians believe as the NT teaches, that the OT is filled with prophecies that hold dual fulfillment and the second fulfillments speak to Christ.
Me: Personally don’t care what people “believe” to be truth as anything can now be “truth” by simply believing it is. Facts are tangible, facts cannot be messed with, facts are truth. To say the prophecies given by God to the Jews are somehow relevant to a modern day “church” is false; unless of course you can provide where God said these particular prophecies are also meant for a future “christian church.”
I don’t think I have ever read anywhere where anyone ever spoke of a prophecy in the OT being applicable to the first century church let alone to the church of today. You’ll have to site some passages for me. Of course these would have to come from the Tanakh and not the NT.
I have asked pastors and teachers about “dual prophecies” and how a prophecy given to a specific group could apply to another group; none could give an answer that didn’t generate more questions, which they couldn’t answer either, and then I was brushed off.
So by stating Isa 7:14 is a “dual prophecy”, explain how it is as I read the context of chapter 7 I read nothing of a coming messiah.
Still waiting for anyone to explain how Jesus can be the messiah when he never fulfilled the requirements; the primary being a biological descendant (seed) of David and Solomon, Jesus was conceived of the spirit and the spirit isn’t of an earthly line as God said the messiah would be. Little perplexed how you can ignore this.
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