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@Ed,
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When Simeon said: [b]“mine eyes have seen thy salvation” was he wrong?[/b] “YES” or “NO” ?[size]
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(1)The Christ is the promised Christ because Jesus was most likely no even conceived when Simon was given that promise. The word promise is inferred from the context just like with other instances of Scripture.
The same is true of salvation. Unless there is a need to emphasize the promised it is an extraneous word. Now with that context the answer is no, he was not wrong but you are because you fail to consider context. The same with t8 and the angel’s words.
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(2)I bolded the answer is the above paragraph and have a question of my own for you.
(3)Did Jesus have go away for the Spirit to come?Hi Kerwin,
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1) What reason/s do you have to offer this speculation? Do you have any?
2) See my next question relating to this question below
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3) Yes – see John 16:7
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OK, next question:When Simeon said: “mine eyes have seen thy salvation” was he wrong? “YES” or “NO” ?
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no, he was not wrong
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Is the English phraseology “have seen” past tense or future tense?@EdJ,
1) What reason/s do you have to offer this speculation? Do you have any?
It is not speculation since there is evidence that infers (hints) that Simeon was made the promise before Jesus was conceived and that is Jesus’ age as well as the fact that the writer thought it important enough to mention that Simeon had received that particular promise; after all it would not be much of a promise if it was uttered recently. After all Jesus was born 41 or so days previous and they were going to make a sacrifice for him in the temple. (Leviticus 12:1-14) Add that to 9 months or even 10 would give you a sum of less than a year since he was conceived.
It is a case based on inferred evidence and so is not solid but since you are making an extreme claim that disagrees with other passages it is enough.
@EdJ,
2) See my next question relating to this question below
3) Yes – see John 16:7
So the Spirit that saves us by its workings only came because Jesus went away. In short it is Jesus’ action of “going away” that saves us.
Do you agree? (Yes or No)
Here us a relevant passage:
Titus 3:4-7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
@EdJ,
Is the English phraseology “have seen” past tense or future tense?
The context reveals it is past tense used as present tense since Simon was viewing Jesus at that time which fulfilled the promise made to him.
Nick,
By the plan of God the Body of Christ was not formed on earth till Jesus went to heaven.
Where is that written?
Nick,
Sorry. I missed the capital in Body. I am not sure you are correct as there were 120 disciples before that point though they were not part of the unity of the Spirit until then.
Nick,
This wisdom descendeth not from above but is earthy, sensual, devilish….jas 3.15
The words “earthy, sensual, devilish” tells us that it is wisdom of the flesh as opposed to wisdom of the Spirit. Jesus did not use wisdom of the flesh for he never sinned though tempted as common to humanity.
Hi KW,
And where is it written that the use of human wisdom is sin?
It just does not compare with the wisdom of God
Nick,
You might not understand the meaning of “earthy” or “sensual” but you do understand the meaning of “devilish” and it means devil like.
In other words you are accusing Jesus of using devil-like wisdom by claiming that passage describes logic in general.
In reality he was using the wisdom that comes from God in his use of logic.
Hi KW,
Is this another expression of your deep obsession with sin?
Does James state that all human wisdom is devilish?
It can be so, deceptive and manipulative.
Jesus was most likely no even conceived when Simon was given that promise.
What reason/s do you have to offer this speculation? Do you have any?
It is not speculation since there is evidence that infers (hints) that Simeon was made the promise before Jesus was conceived
OK what are your reasons then ??? I’m not following what you are getting at here…
After all Jesus was born 41 or so days previous and they were going to make a sacrifice for him in the temple. (Leviticus 12:1-14) Add that to 9 months or even 10 would give you a sum of less than a year since he was conceived.
Hi KW,
Christ is the head of his body, the church.
Eph 1.22, Eph 5.23, Coll 1.18.
It was important for him to return to the Father so that his Spirit could be sent to his brothers in the church on earth.
Jn 16.7
This is the plan of God that the earth may return to the His rule through Jesus Christ.
When Simeon said: “mine eyes have seen thy salvation” was he wrong? “YES” or “NO” ?
no, he was not wrong
Is the English phraseology “have seen” past tense or future tense?
The context reveals it is past tense used as present tense since Simon was viewing Jesus at that time which fulfilled the promise made to him.
Hi Kerwin, OK next refining question:
You agree then that…
Jesus was the savior at the time Simon had seen him,
even though Jesus had NOT died on a cross for Simeon’s sins yet – correct? “Yes” or “No” ?Ed,
Your question is too vague.
Here is a clarifying question.
Do you mean the savior that was promised to come but had not yet saved anyone from their sins?
Nick,
All the wisdom that James is speaking about has the characteristics of being devilish, sensual, and early though not all wisdom has those characteristic.
I am speaking in regards to James words and he chose to use words that are about this world and the thing of this world but there is a world to come. Are you accusing James of being “obsessed with sin”?
Are you using “human” in the same sense I am using “world” in the sentence above?
When Simeon said: “mine eyes have seen thy salvation” was he wrong? “YES” or “NO” ?
no, he was not wrong
Is the English phraseology “have seen” past tense or future tense?
The context reveals it is past tense used as present tense since Simon was viewing Jesus at that time which fulfilled the promise made to him.
Was Jesus nevertheless the savior AT THE TIME Simeon seen him,
even though Jesus had not died on a cross for Simeon’s sins yet ? …[color=black]“Yes” or “No” ?[/color]
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