Was jesus always superior

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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,00:45)

Mike………..Tell us one thing why was Jesus resurected with a Body if Spirit does not have a body,

Hi Gene,

Who said spirit does not have a body? Surely not me. I believe the scriptures that say God gives a body of His choosing to EVERY kind of “seed”. I believe the scriptures that say the man of earth has an earthly body which has it's own kind of splendor, and the man of heaven has a spiritual body that has IT'S own kind of spendor.

I believe the scriptures that say Jesus became a life giving SPIRIT…….and also the one that says Stephen was able to see him in heaven at God's right hand before he died.

I, like you, believe that angels DO have bodies. It's just that I, UNLIKE you, also believe the scripture that says angels are ministering SPIRITS.

Gene:

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and Why did Jesus say a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see i have, is that not the same as saying he was not a spirit being at all?

Why would the body of a spirit have to be made of flesh and bone Gene? Is the body of a worm made of flesh and bone? And scripture doesn't specify WHEN Jesus became a life-giving spirit, so God could have transformed him back into spirit when he took him back up to heaven. He didn't necessarily have to be a spirit during the 40 days he remained on earth after he was raised from the dead, right?

Gene:

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While you are at it also tell us why is there even any physical resurrection of any kind in the first place, if a body is not needed,

A body IS needed for any being Gene. That's what I've been arguing this whole time. It just doesn't have to be a flesh and bone body like you are accustomed to seeing all around you.

Gene:

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Why did Jesus say to fear him who can destory (BOTH) (two things) Body and Spiirt (IN THE GRAVE ) HELLIOS.

You are misquoting scripture Gene. Is this what you refer to:

Matthew 10 NWT
28 And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge‧hen′na.

As far as I know from scripture, upon one's death, his spirit returns to God who gave it. I don't know of any scripture that says differently………do you?

And Adam, I have not noticed where you asked me any of these questions, but do my answers to Gene suffice for you too………..or is there more you would like to point out to me?

peace and love to you both,
mike

December 2, 2010 at 11:17 pm#227403

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Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2010,09:08)

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And Kathi on everything except the worshipping of Jesus as a “part of God”.

Good job Mike, you worded that right! I don't have to get after you, LOL.

One less person “getting after me”? Phew! Thank God for that!

December 2, 2010 at 11:21 pm#227404

Blocked

Hey All,

I don't claim to know this stuff for a fact. But can't ANYONE out there show me the fault in this logic:

If more than one being exist, there has to be something that designates “this space” as being occupied by one of those beings, and “that space” as being occupied by the other, right?

Listen carefully and show me where my logic is faulty here:

If there is not something that separates one being from the other, then there aren't really two beings, but only one.

Can anyone at all refute this logic? If you can, please show me what I'm missing.

peace and love,
mike

December 2, 2010 at 11:45 pm#227408

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,16:21)

Hey All,

I don't claim to know this stuff for a fact. But can't ANYONE out there show me the fault in this logic:

If more than one being exist, there has to be something that designates “this space” as being occupied by one of those beings, and “that space” as being occupied by the other, right?

Listen carefully and show me where my logic is faulty here:

If there is not something that separates one being from the other, then there aren't really two beings, but only one.

Can anyone at all refute this logic? If you can, please show me what I'm missing.

peace and love,
mike

Mike
Now pay attention ANGELS came to present this could ???many,(200,000,000)
and now Satan came also,and were did he came from ?
AND ALL THAT BEFORE GOD,right
that s many spirits in my book is it not???

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”

Pierre

December 4, 2010 at 5:36 pm#227595

Blocked

Hi JA,

Aren't the “all things” that came FROM God in 1 Cor 8:6 the same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus? If angels came FROM God, then angels came THROUGH Jesus, wouldn't you agree?

peace and love,
mike

December 4, 2010 at 6:51 pm#227599

Participant

Mike,

If you say so.

December 4, 2010 at 7:00 pm#227600

Participant

Although, Pharoah put Joseph in charge of ALL thing so that no one could lift a foot or place a foot without Joseph's say so.
Yet, Joseph could not sit on Pharoah's throne, nor sleep with his wife, nor enter his hareem, nor depose Pharoah.

So, 'All' doesn't always mean 'ALL'.

December 4, 2010 at 7:56 pm#227601

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 05 2010,05:00)

So, 'All' doesn't always mean 'ALL'.

I agree. Nor does “everything” always mean “EVERYTHING” according to this scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:27 NIV
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

But my feeling is that whatever “all things” came FROM God in 1 Cor 8:6 are the same exact “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus. So it's really a matter of whether you think angels came FROM God or not, because Paul speaks of the exact same “all things” two times in that scripture. So if angels are a part of the “all things” that came from God, then they are also a part of the same “all things” that came through Jesus, right?

peace and love,
mike

December 4, 2010 at 8:29 pm#227604

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 05 2010,12:00)

So, 'All' doesn't always mean 'ALL'.

yes I agree totally with you,you are make it very clear that what is Pharaoh's is not from Joseph,limit are to be understood,

and so it is with God,wen god says ;all things;it has to be understood this does not include anything that is God,but all the other things after God ,right so after the first creation ,right??

Pierre

December 4, 2010 at 8:45 pm#227605

Participant

Mike,

What I ask is this:
If Jesus 'created' the Angels, why is he compared to them such that he is later said to have become 'so much better than them'?

In Zecharia 3: Satan and 'the Angel of the Lord' stood before God.

They was the High Priest Joshua stood with them who was in filthy garments.

In this scenario God is showing his love for a specific group of people on earth, who he calls 'Jerusalem'.
'Jersualem', says God, 'is a brand plucked from the fire'.

What does this mean, what do you understand this to mean?
This is just a side question, you need not answer it.

Read through the verses. Imagine the scenario…
Then God says to them who stood before him (Note, although the text says 'them' (All) it obviously did not include Joshua, himself) 'Take away the filthy garments from him'…read the rest yourself…

The point is, both Satan AND the 'Angel of the Lord' stood together before God and BOTH together carried out his order.
Notice at the end (Verse 5). They both put a clean turban and clean clothes on Joshua.
But then, only 'The Angel of the Lord stood by' (Satan had disappeared).

And further….verse 7, The Angel of the Lord speaks the word of God. Something he will do many more times, and act out such words as commanded by God so he becomes as the very, 'WORD of God'.

See here, God says, through the Angel, that if Joshua 'Walks in My Ways, and keeps My command, then you shall also judge My house (….and the rest..).'

Mike, this is saying, 'If you serve me and remain Holy, you will become my Son, an heir and sit with 'the Senior Heir, the Begotten one' at the judgement table, and (…the rest…)

Chapter 5, gives an analogy, symbolism of Wickedness, as a woman in a basket….to you, i guess you can't see that but believe that there are women in baskets in heaven….the Angel even says, 'this is how it isperceived throughtout the whole earth'…and two women with Wings like Storks….now we know that the basket and thewoman in it are symbolic for Wickedness…why would you then imply that the women with wings are Angels (Thus further imlying abd reenforcing incorrect thoughts, that Angels have wings, yet we also know that all Angels are 'male'….mike, this shows how desparation clouds Godly judgement)
Horses…represent 'raw power'….
Does 'power' have a body?
Does 'Wickedness' have a body?
Rather, do they not infuse a 'body'

And who are the two Anointed ones in 4:11-14?

Back to 3:1-5. Are there disparities of stading bewteen the 'Angel of the Lord' and Satan?
Why not?

Jesus 'created' Satan, yet Satan is as powerful as the one who 'created' him.
Does that sound logical?

Nothing, created by one, is as powerful as the one who created it.
This is plain common sense…you cannot give to another 'more or even the same' as what you have, you can only give a little less, at most…

December 4, 2010 at 11:33 pm#227615

Participant

you say;Nothing, created by one, is as powerful as the one who created it.
This is plain common sense…you cannot give to another 'more or even the same' as what you have, you can only give a little less, at most…
=============================================================
you forgot it is God that create but trough Christ,the tool is not higher that the worker or is he

if Christ was not little bit higher then it would not be him who would be sacrificing his live but that one who would be a little higher.

pierre

December 5, 2010 at 12:28 am#227623

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 05 2010,06:45)

What I ask is this:
If Jesus 'created' the Angels, why is he compared to them such that he is later said to have become 'so much better than them'?

In Zecharia 3: Satan and 'the Angel of the Lord' stood before God.

You are just not getting it JA. JESUS DID NOT CREATE ANYONE OR ANYTHING!

Now after God created Jesus, GOD ALONE created everything else THROUGH Jesus. Who are you to say that God can't create angels THROUGH Jesus that are as powerful as Jesus……..if that is the case? Jesus was the first, and all else came THROUGH him, just as the scriptures CLEARLY say.

And Zechariah doesn't answer the 1 Cor 8:6 question I asked JA, but only creates more confusion in your mind. You are grasping at straws because this “angel of the LORD” apparently is not Jesus, for he is the one telling the words of the LORD to Joshua about His “Branch”. We all know that the “Branch” through whom God eliminated all sin in one day is Jesus, right? Besides, there is nothing to say that Satan had anything to do with the putting on of clean clothes and the turbin. All Satan does in that passage is accuse and get rebuked for it. Don't you remember in Rev about the one who accuses the brethren night and day before being thrown down to earth?

About 1 Cor 8:6, you answered, “If you say so”. I do JA. But do you also say so? If not, then why? Let's keep it simple here. It's one scripture that clearly says one thing JA. Do you believe the scripture or not?

mike

December 5, 2010 at 1:00 pm#227655

Participant

Mike,
You thrash. Your tail, or is it 'tale' is getting longer…maybe your new name (In addition to all the others) is now 'Pin-nose-io'.

In Zecharia, there are only five persons present: God, The Angel, Satan, Joshua and Zecharia.
God says, 'Put clean clothes on him' and THEY do so.
Who are the 'THEY'? It can't be Zecharia, and it isn't God, and Joshua doesn't put on his own clothes…so that leaves….who of the five, the unmentioned two from the list above? If it is the Angel alone, why is he referred to as 'They'?

See Mike, your twisting is so apparent…and then you delve into supposition to try smother clear scripture…when you do this, who can then believe anything else you say?

And why do you scream that Jesus did not create anything… I have never said that he did…this smacks of your lack of understanding…and further mini-refinements you make in your post each time you come across a truism but can't bring yourself to admit it.

See, Mike, i quote 'Create'… You are the one implying that Jesus 'Created' the Angels, but then subtely cover it by saying 'through'.

You WANT TO SAY that Jesus created ALL but are forced to say 'Through' instead.

Tell, then, how did God create the Angels 'through' Jesus…

By the way, and let it not be mentioned again: We are only disputing creation of the Angels…all else is a given. I'm saying that Jesus did not create the Angels, nor were they created 'through' Jesus. I am saying that, through Jesus, the STATIONS of the Angels, not the Angels themselves. I say that they ALL came directly from God.

Now, you acquiesce to Satan being as powerful as Jesus. Why Mike? But even so, slowly, slowly, keep coming….

I'm watching a 'Dr Who' program right now. Dr Who goes back to the days of Agatha Christie, famous Crime writer. Dr Who's assistant keeps telling Agatha that her books will be famous in the future, and talks about future things (She's not a very good time traveller) Agatha thinks that everything she is hearing is madness, and Dr Who and his companion are the maddest people she has ever come across. She cannot understand, nor take advantage of 'knowledge from the future', cannot understand the things being said to her..'moving pictures', 'Voices from moving pictures', things we, today, take for granted. Mike, you say my posts are getting more ludicrous…why? Because you are Agatha Christie, unable to believe revelations beyond your imaginations?

Your ideas are scattered, you swish from idea to idea refusing to see reason …yet adopting the identifiable good parts of what is being spoken of to you and fusing them into to your ideas.
When you are stuck in a corner, you simple slip away saying, 'I haven't studied that, si i can't comment…but i will say this, ''i disagree with you'', i don't know why, i just like opposing people, that's my nature, i am Thomas, and Philip, and Peter, and a Pharasee.'

Now that you are stuck on Satan being as powerful as Jesus, you now say that God created them and therefore they CAN be equal….ha ha…keep coming….

So, Satan was a splendid creation of God. Magnificent, bejewelled, tall, handsome, glorious….and he, Satan, thought himself the 'beesnees'.
So, if Jesus is the 'exact image of God in visible form'…how is he a Spirit, as all Spirits, in fact, all things in Heaven, are invisible, therefore, how is Jesus the 'visible image of God in heaven'??
See, an anomaly? This reference to Jesus was for AFTER he was risen from the dead and God made him 'as God over His kingdom' in fractal nature of Joseph in Pharoah's kingdom.
See, also, Mike, these and many references, have to be seen in terms of the RISEN CHRIST. And this goes to explain 'Begotten'. Understand the language of the writer.
Mike, on which day was Jesus born? Ha ha…please say, 'Christmas day'… The lnguage of today….please, was the day Christ was born, 'Christmas day'? Yet you say, 'Christ was born on Christmas Day'…
Mike, who is the 'the only Begotten Son/man/god who is in the bosom of the father'? Was Jesus 'a man' when he was created?…see Mike, how you confuse things in context because you so stubborn trying to make a pointless point?
John, talks of the risen Christ as the 'begotten' as it says in Romans 1. But you try to use, nay, misuse it to prove him as 'begotten' when he was created. It doesn't make sense, because….you rightly say, 'ALL the Angels were created BY God'…and therefore are ALL equally 'SONs of God', and again, by your wording, 'Begotten Sons of God'. So, again, by your wording, how can Jesus then be 'the ONLY Begotten Son'??

So, now you agree that God created ALL…then you can now see how the favoured Son inherits all, and is the only one who gets credited with the creation process…Mike, it's so simple when you 'believe'.

And if you are wrong…then you are trying to deceive Shimmer. Please think and stop …you know when you are being deceptive, desparately thrashing your thoughts to get you out of the hole you are in.

Mike, i'm not playing games…it is more glorious to admit your error than to try to cover up with unscrupulous excerpts.

Build up on truth…not tear down truth just because you are shamed.
'Let shame become pleasure' if it means finding truth and turning from the deceiver…not 'let shame become pleasure' because, like WJ, it amuses you to see what deception you can create against an honest poster. Yes, you learnt that from WJ. How long ago did i expose this tactic in WJ? And you said i was boasting…because you couldn't defeat him… Jealousy gets you nowhere, my man!!

Why do you say that 'the Angel of the Lord' is not Jesus because he speaks the word of God saying, 'thus says the lord of host, ''i will bring forth my Branch''.'?
The Angel is speaking God's word…do you suppose all the other things Jesus said about himself were not also the word of God…oh dear, that meant that he was lying because he spoke of himself…even though he was quoting what God told him to say…how is he 'the Word of God' if he cannot speak anything that God says for him to say that pertains to him??? Mike, Mike, Mike….where is your sense of reasoning?

December 5, 2010 at 7:58 pm#227694

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 05 2010,23:00)

You WANT TO SAY that Jesus created ALL but are forced to say 'Through' instead.

What is the matter with you JA?

It is the SCRIPTURES, not ME that says all things were created BY God, THROUGH Jesus.

If you have a problem with this wording, then attack God about it, not me. I am only the messenger here.

And if you would like to discuss Zechariah, start a thread about it and I will take your hand and lead you through the scripture point by point. But right now I only want a DIRECT answer to this question that you've been avoiding.

In other words JA, do you think there is cause to think that the “all things” that came FROM God are different from the “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus? If so, then please state your SCRIPTURAL reason. If not, then end this thing by admitting you were mistaken and that 1 Cor 8:6 in conjuntion with Phil 1:16 and John 1:3 makes it abundantly clear that your precious “Lucifer” (whoever that is) came into being THROUGH Jesus.

So, are the “all things” that came FROM God the same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus, or not?

And YES, I say so. Now what about you?

peace and love,
mike

December 5, 2010 at 8:08 pm#227698

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,06:00)

Mike,
You thrash. Your tail, or is it 'tale' is getting longer…maybe your new name (In addition to all the others) is now 'Pin-nose-io'.

See Mike, your twisting is so apparent…and then you delve into supposition to try smother clear scripture…when you do this, who can then believe anything else you say?

See, Mike, i quote 'Create'… You are the one implying that Jesus 'Created' the Angels, but then subtely cover it by saying 'through'.

You WANT TO SAY that Jesus created ALL but are forced to say 'Through' instead.

Tell, then, how did God create the Angels 'through' Jesus…

Now, you acquiesce to Satan being as powerful as Jesus. Why Mike? But even so, slowly, slowly, keep coming….

Now that you are stuck on Satan being as powerful as Jesus, you now say that God created them and therefore they CAN be equal….ha ha…keep coming….

Mike, i'm not playing games…it is more glorious to admit your error than to try to cover up with unscrupulous excerpts.

you are mixing TV shows with the scriptures this is not the way of God.

you fail the true meaning of scriptures.

Pierre

November 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm#361787

Participant

good answer mike

November 13, 2013 at 1:58 am#361830

Blocked

I wonder what ever happened to old JA/Istari/Toby? I wonder if he and Shimmer are still an item.

November 13, 2013 at 2:13 am#361834