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Mike,
If you have mistitled the thread, then you should stop it now and start another with the correct title.
Posters are posting from the view point of the thread title.And why have you waited till now to make this admission?
[Moderator]
Mikeboll,
You are completely lost….you even make me angry…i used to just laugh at your post. The ludicrous, pathetic posts you make in defence of your your puny minded thoughts.
You now admit,
ha! Subtle!
that it was at his resurrection that God said, 'You are my Son,..'
But you forget, Mikeboll, …no you didn't forget…that it was after Jesus had died…and was raised again…raised in Triumph and Glory…when he was 'Raised above the Angels', given a name so much more wonderful than theirs…Mike, this only compounds the point that he was lower……..not prove against it….
Mike, are you tired? Exhausted. Has your mind, your reasoning ability fogged? Take a break, man…go on holiday …don't take your wetBible…leave it, 'Let Go, Luke…use the (…Holy Spirit) Force' and then God will say, 'Luke, I AM your father' and you won't say, 'Nooooooo!' and fall down a pit.And Mike, M i k e….Jesus saying 'My father could send xxx amount of Angels' does not show 'Superiority'. It simply means that Jesus would need them because he himself could not do it. Whatever he was able to do…did he not say, that others could do, if only they had faith as much as a mustard seed, the smallest seed known to them at the time? So Peter could walk on water….all men can walkon water, if they had the merest amount of faith.
Further, all things he did were with the support of the Holy Spirit. As any man could also do if they believed…Mike, please….don't create for yourself such discreditable deeds…these posts are 'a permanent record'. Don't look back and say, 'You know, i was pretty stub-born, ignore-rant and arrow-gaunt back in spring, summer and autumn of 2010!!!'
JA:
Quote This is the second time that, when confronted by something you cannot refute you make this underhanded claim of, 'I haven't looked into it yet'…yet, in the same bresthe, you make every statement under the sun refuting what i have said…
JA, you believe that Ez 28:11-19 is in reference to Satan. I've showed you the info from NETNotes, which you blow off as written by other men with “puny minds”. But have you ever even considered that Jehovah starts talking about the King of Tyre in verse 1? Did you know that verse 2 says, “But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.”? Is Satan a mere mortal and not a god? And verse 3 says, “Are you wiser than Daniel?” Wouldn't Satan be wiser than Daniel? But here's the clincher JA,6 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“‘Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,
7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.
8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.
9 Will you then say, “I am a god,”
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a mortal, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.
10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.Does scripture ever say Satan will be slain? I remember 1000 years in a pit, and then being thown into a lake of fire where he will be tormented forever………..but not death.
Do you see what you've done here. You've taken what you read somewhere about Ez 28 refering to Satan and made it a fact in your mind. You've taken something you've read somewhere about Satan's personal name being “Lucifer” and made it a fact in your mind. And because this “fact in your mind” is so predominant, you are willing to rearrange the actual scriptures to keep this “fact” alive. But as I remember, “Lucifer” means “morning star”, and the Bible mentions these in plural meaning the “sons of God” or “angels”. How is it you apply this name to ONLY Satan and then speak about him as if you know more than what the scriptures tell us?
Hmmmmm…….you say you post as directed by spirit. I'm beginning to wonder who's spirit is telling you these things.
JA:
Quote What has Hitler got to do with taking Satan desiring worship from mortal men?
Do you understand that one doesn't have to be a part of the creation of a certain land in order to want the people of that land to worship him as a god?JA:
Quote The question is,'Why did Satan think that he, above all others of God's creation, although having no part in the creation process, and even above Jesus who 'created him', deserve the greatest accollade of all, even equal to that of the premier, the Parent force, God Almighty himself, that he should be Worshipped.
Okay, listen very carefully here. Let's say many angels were roaming the earth at the time of the Garden of Eden. They were more intelligent and powerful than mankind. Any one of them could have pulled the stunt that Satan pulled, right? Any one of them could have tried to get the less intelligent, less powerful species to think of them as gods. We see it in movies all the time. The white man finds himself in the midst of a uneducated jungle tribe and plays god to them. I saw it most recently on Pirates of the Carribean, part 2. Jack Sparrow had become the god of the island tribe where they were shipwrecked. But does that mean that Jack Sparrow had to have a part in the creation of that island? No. And neither does it mean that Satan had to have a part in creating earth. JA, do you understand this yet? Satan did not have to have any part whatsoever in the creation in order for him to attemp to gain the worship of the lower life forms there. Agreed?JA:
Quote And finally, why was Satan, a nobody by you…given his own Kingdom?
Is Satan the only one who recieved a “rule”? How do you know? Maybe Gabriel was given Mars and could have tried to have the Martians worship him but instead remained faithful to God. All we know is that Satan WAS given the earth as his domain to rule UNDER THE ORDERS of God, but he got greedy and decided he would rule it his own way and try to receive the credit and worship due only the world's Creator.JA:
Quote And, again, i ask, why do you keep bringing in 'Satan was God's first created'…when did i last mention that in my post…yet you keep saying it…oh, i know, you are hoping to use it to convince others against me because you can't find any other way
This is where the crap you spew stems from JA. Your fractal theory leads you to think Satan was God's REAL firstborn. And because of this, you think “firstborn of all creation” doesn't mean what it says. And from this you think begotten is just an appointed title. From this you are willing to close a blind eye to Col 1:16, John 1:3 and 1 Cor 8:6. If you can get it through your head that not all scriptures are fractal, then maybe you can get it through your head that Jesus is God's real firstborn – just like scriptures teach. Then the rest will fall in place for you.Why? What's the matter with me bringing up the reason you are willing to butcher scriptures? Are you embarrassed by your theory? I would think you would be proud of it and willing to defend it. After all, you're willing to forsake scriptures in order to support this whacked-out theory. Embrace it my friend. It is who you are.
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 29 2010,00:08) Mike,
If you have mistitled the thread, then you should stop it now and start another with the correct title.
Posters are posting from the view point of the thread title.And why have you waited till now to make this admission?
[Moderator]
It wasn't an issue until now JA. Laurel is new to this thread, so I explained it to him/her. The rest of us know what this thread is about as proven by Kathi's response to your attempt to make it about when Jesus was on earth to get your much needed “victory”.We all, including you, know this thread was designed to combat your misconception that Jesus was at the most just one of the many angels in the beginning, and at the least, actually came AFTER Satan.
The thread is fine how it is, thank you.
mike
JA:
Quote You now admit, ha! Subtle!
that it was at his resurrection that God said, 'You are my Son,..'
But you forget, Mikeboll, …no you didn't forget…that it was after Jesus had died…and was raised again…raised in Triumph and Glory…when he was 'Raised above the Angels', given a name so much more wonderful than theirs…
No JA. I referred to the time at the Jordan when God said these words. Also the time on the mountain when he was transfigured. He was God's Son in a special way even when on the earth, and therefore more superior to the angels he ordered around even then.JA, would you like me to leave you to your false “victory” because you think Jesus was inferior to the angels when he was man? Would you happily claim this “victory” with pride, knowing full well that is not what this discussion was ever about? Of course you would. You would most certainly be that dishonest, wouldn't you. Go ahead then and claim your “victory” JA.
But before you do, explain why the wicked angels who possessed people in Jesus' day were afraid of him. Why did they BEG him to show mercy on them? Does that sound like these wicked angels were superior to him?
Have any angels ever raised a man from death? Did any angel tell a fig tree to produce no more fruit – and then it withered and died? Can angels tell a mountain to throw itself into the sea and have it obey?
This thread is about whether Jesus was always superior to the angels in the beginning – before the world, or just after he was raised from the dead.
So do you want to deal with the issue as you KNOW it is? Or would you rather play word games?
JA, ALL INVISIBLE RULERS IN HEAVEN were created through Jesus – do you believe?
JA, ALL THINGS came from God through Jesus – do you believe?
JA, NOT ONE THING that exists came into being WITHOUT JESUS – do you believe?
I do. I believe the scriptures JA. Why don't you?
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,15:28) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,21:33) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,14:09) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,21:06) Yahushua Messiah taught me that if i want to be a part of His kingdom i must be humble and a servant. I shall not rule over my sisters and my brothers, i shall serve them. First and foremost I must serve my Elohim Yahuweh, like my Master did.
Our reward will be in the everlasting kingdom, not in this world of sin and corruption. Then finally my Master will reign with righteousness over all of Yahuweh's creation.
Lthat is what scriptures are saying but everyone is not called to heaven ,most will dwell on the new earth,
Pierre
?????????????
Lwhat is it you do not understand ?
that is what scriptures are saying,(this means scriptures agree with what you say)
but everyone is not called to heaven ,most will dwell on the new earth,
this is all in God s kingdom,
Pierre
P,
I did not say, “everyone is not called to heaven ,most will dwell on the new earth,” those are your words.Show me the verses to explain how you came up with this thought.
Also if you do not understand me from now on please ask me a question and i will answer it if i am able. I do not want to confuse you.
Mikeboll,
The angels Jesus encountered were already fallen, hence they are called 'Demons'.
They also knew that Jesus was destined to Judge them…they were aware of their doom.
They …thought… that Jesus was going to destroy them before time. Remember (?) that they do not know God's timescale so when the saw the 'Son of God' they thought he was going to fry and eat them. So they begged him to let them go…out of the man, and into the pigs where they were released back to their confinement following the death of the pigs…released from the flesh bodies.
Jesus did not have authority to destroy them…that would have been against God's authority. Jesus did not gave authority to destroy them at that time, even now, until the second and final Judgement to come.
Mike, it does really seem you are clutching at straws. Please stop showing what an idiot you have become.
Mike,
Invisible rulers in Heaven….who are these invisible rulers?
What do they rule?
Why are they 'Invisible'? What things in Heaven, are visible?
JA:
Quote Mike, it does really seem you are clutching at straws. Please stop showing what an idiot you have become.
Not only are you the “idiot” here, but also the coward. Stick to what you KNOW this thread is about JA. Stop running and hiding behind the time when Jesus was a man because you think it is an escape from the pounding you are receiving here.JA:
Quote Mike,
Invisible rulers in Heaven….who are these invisible rulers?
What do they rule?
Why are they 'Invisible'? What things in Heaven, are visible?
Stop hiding and diverting, you coward. Answer the question like a man, not a mouse. I already told you that Michael is one of these “rulers”. Scripture doesn't list others by name, so unlike you, I won't speculate about what scripture doesn't actually say.The point is this JA. All things were created through Jesus. What “things” one might ask? Thankfully Paul expanded on his thought. He said ALL THINGS, whether they be visible OR invisible. Whether they be on earth OR in heaven. And that even includes the POWERS, RULERS AND AUTHORITIES, too.
Paul made clear that it wasn't only the “lessor” things that were created through Jesus, but also the MIGHTY things too.
Believe the scripture or don't JA. The choice is yours. But the last thing you should be doing is calling the one who DOES believe the scriptures an “idiot”.
mike
Hey JA,
Why do you keep ignoring 1 Cor 8:6?
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
JA, if angels are included in the “all things” that came FROM God, then why would you assume they are not included in the exact same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus?
It is a DIRECT question from a man JA. Can you DIRECTLY answer it like a man, or will you continue to skirt the issue like a cowardly mouse?
mike
Mikeboll,
Where does it say, 'Superior to the Angels IN THE Beginning' and 'After he was raised up above them'…?
Just read that back… This thread is about when Jesus was superior…
Mikeboll says, 'This thread is about when Jesus was superior.
When he was Superior, he was Always Superior…
The only time he wasn't Superior was the time when…he wasn't superior.
But i don't want to talk about that…
now that i've been found to be posting falsely'Mike and JA, You two really are becoming sad, you are as if worst enemies, making fun of each other, fighting each other, wow, you should really both stop it, who cares what all of the words are supposed to mean, go to God for an answer, ask and you will recieve, why is there wars and fighting among you ? Its because you do not ask…or something it goes.
So, the most important thing is…do you have God the Father, do you have Christ the Son, do you have Holy Spirit……
Whichever way you see it, you have all those things so what is the problem ?Do you both pray ?
Do you both have faith and belief in God and the Son ?Good. Well try to keep it that way, build up dont tear down.
Hey Mike and JA, why are you two on each others throat?
If you call yourself Christian you should stop, no matter what your believes are…..Are you both here to dominate each other, or act like Christian. shimmern is right it is not befitting……..put a stop to it now…..IreneIrene, Shimmer,
You are both right…thank you for the reminder.Mike, the discussion is over.
It has been for some time now.Thanks for the fun 'it was … immotional…'
Please ask t8 to lock it down.
Hi Irene and Shimmer. It happened way sooner than I'd expected. Do you know the ONLY difference in JA and my posts in the last two days? Think hard. Go back and read the thread. Did you figure it out yet?
I FINALLY STARTED TREATING HIM THE WAY HE'S BEEN TREATING ME FROM THE BEGINNING. That's it. That's the ONLY difference.
Where were you for the last 8 months that JA has been talking this same way to me Irene?
Shimmer has been here. She posted that she thought JA was “funny” when he was verbally abusing me every day.
I point blank ASKED all of you to rebuke him many pages ago. Kerwin made one passing comment, and Ed made two.
JA called me a “little sensitive girl” for even making that request. WHERE WERE YOU GUYS THEN?
Then two short days ago, I finally decided I would speak to him with the same respect he's shown me for months. And within that two short days, NOW the rebukes come out?
Amazing. I don't blame you Irene, for you haven't been posting in this thread regularly, and you have definitely had my back before when Martian was speaking abusively. But do you remember that I mentioned to you in another thread about a week ago that JA is running a close third to KJ and Martian as far as abusive posts?
And Shimmer, what's wrong? You sat there and read all the nasty things he's been saying to me and Pierre throughout this whole thread and the debate and the “spirit body” thread and said nothing. I DIRECTLY asked you to talk to your friend about his abusive posts – and nothing. But NOW, when I decide to give him back what he's been dishing out for months, it only takes two little days to get a rebuke from you?
Remarkable.
From now on, I will go back to posting the way I usually do. If JA continues with his same crap, I expect both of you to be on top of it from the beginning. If you say nothing to him as it goes on and on, then don't bother saying anything to me if I finally get fed up and start to retaliate, okay? I don't really plan on discoursing with him anymore anyway.
Irene, I really urge you to go back through this thread and see what I've put up with since the beginning of it. Then you'll know the reason for these last couple of posts.
As for you JA, you are not even competent to debate with me, for I use scriptures while you avoid them at all costs. You don't debate scriptures nor do you answer simple questions like the last bolded one I asked you. You just like to insult and divert and post your “world according to JA” crap. This would have been a collosal waste of my time, except Shimmer has come over to the truth that the angels were created through Jesus. And Pierre and Kathi also made some good points from which I learned. I hope you take that battle wound from our debate and wear it like it was a crown. I won't ever have to hear your crap about “Did anyone ever wonder why Mike doesn't debate me?” again.
You sir, are a sad excuse for a Christian. You talk smack and make the scriptures fit around YOUR understanding. Guess what JA? YOUR understanding is WRONG. And I'm glad that Shimmer got the chance to see that, as she has been putting a lot of faith in the “world according to JA” for some time now. I see that she not only agrees that the angels were created through Jesus, but I also just noticed on the spirit thread that she's asking your approval to believe that Jesus now has a “spiritual body”. Will you give it O wise one?
There you go JA. I'm done talking with you for quite a while now. Please respect this request to not post to OR ABOUT me either.
mike
Mike, please, I dont usually interfere, I only did here because it was getting too carried away! I havent been reading here for a while, I just did today. I was talking to you both. I told JA to watch what he says, dont say I havent because I have.
But Mike, you were picking on his beliefs.
Mike, I have already explained to you the use of the word 'funny' you have taken it the wrong way…I had said 'very funny….what are you talking about' I was replying to a post to me. I told you that. I wasnt laughing at anything said about you.
Please stop it.
Work toward meaningfull conversations rather than debating.
Build each other up rather than pull each other down.
You should both apologise you are both in the wrong.
JA,
Quote Irene, Shimmer,
You are both right…thank you for the reminder.
Mike, the discussion is over.
It has been for some time now.
Thanks for the fun 'it was … immotional…'Mike,
Quote “world according to JA” crap. Quote Guess what JA? YOUR understanding is WRONG. Quote You sir, are a sad excuse for a Christian. Quote I'm done talking with you for quite a while now. Mike, think about what you just said.
Mike, I will also remind you,
Quote Shimmer has come over to the truth that the angels were created through Jesus
No, I learnt alot through Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventist's, both say Jesus was an Angel. So I still don't know….it's one of those thing's i'm unsure of.Quote I also just noticed on the spirit thread that she's asking your approval to believe that Jesus now has a “spiritual body”. Will you give it O wise one?
I wasn't asking for approval I was showing JA. I have always believed that Jesus has a spiritual body.Ok. That's all.
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