Was jesus always superior

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 12 2010,12:39)

Everlasting past…… God alone Some point in everlasting past….the angels are created. The heavenly order set in place…Seraphims, cherubims, archangels, other angels (All in heaven are spirit and are Angels…p.s. the name WE call them). They are ALL 'Sons of God'. There is no distinction in form, only in power and authority, their stations. Just as the builder 'employs' workers of differing skills and abilities…each is just as worthy as the other for if any is less then the house will have a flaw, like the body, who devalues any part of themselves, says the left hand is not as good as the right, or the wisdom tooth is more worthy than the incisor? For all are required for the correct funtioning of the body…so to the value of every worker building the house, for the house owner is very demanding and every part must be as perfect as the other, from the most visible to least perceptible. The Princes, principle Sons. Every King has a set of sons, princes, who he credits, tests them for the inheritance, measures their value by their deeds and loyalty and righteousness. 'Lucifer', 'Jesus', two…more? Four? Twelve. Numbers, repeated number, in Scriptures are purposeful, not random…take note… 12 tribes of Israel, twelve disciples, 144,000(12 * 12) 12 loaves…others… Two…Cain and Abel/Seth, Isaac and Ismael, Jacob and Esau, Jesus and Adam, Jesus and Lucifer ( the only two of the heavenly host who hold power in rulership over kingdoms)..one sinned, the other was righteous, one was acceptable, the other hated by God (For Jacob [God] loved but Esau [God] hated),two trees, one of life, one of knowledge. Two vines (Daniel's vision)~~~~~ The angels, under God's guidance, the master planner, set to work and thd creation is completed…the Stars, the Principle Sons, sing together, the '[other] sons of God' Shout with Joy…all very natural… Then, God tells man he must worship Him as Father….this means hold to His way, God has held back things from him for he is a 'wetling' and cannot handle the great glory of God for now, but in time…cleave to the Father, you are son of God in the flesh. But, Lucifer, arrayed in glory, resplendent in all the precious stones of the earth, tall, mighty, and 'haughty with it' is not satisfied, he demands glory in worship…are these wonders not also the works of my hand, the 'covering Cherubim', see the splendour…look here, look there, i did that…where is my reward? Jesus is quiet and serene, placid even in his mighty power as equal with Lucifer. So, Lucifer demands glory…God warns him to stay in his station, 'Stay off the Mike, Stay off the Mike'…sorry… But the seed of sin grows in Lucifer and he defies God, desires to raise his own station up to the seat of God, as Firstborn, senior over his brethren…God denies him, and he goes off to tell Adam and Eve that God is holding back things from them, namely, everlasting life, and, self acquiring Knowledge. But he knows not to approach Adam directly because Adam would most likely have refused, and he only had one chance…before Adam and Eve procreated. So, naturally, he chose eve…and tempted her, and she fell…but see, this did not bring sin…She went to her husband and pursuaded him to defy God to taste the fruit of desire for knowledge and wisdom, taking no heed to the lie that they would not die…Eve thinking she would die immediately and didn't so her husband thought, 'hmmm, ok'. Of course Lucifer, now 'a Devil and Satan,' just Satan for short, knew it meant death of Mankind by sin, not individual, fall down immediate dead!!! So, Jesus was found to be more righteous than his brethren…and his brethren, Lucifer, at least, chose to desire worship for his part in the creation plan and execution. And so sin entered the world and man was destined to die. Satanbraised a challenge to God and God had to respond to it to show once and for all, that his righteousness was ultimate. So Satan was given his kingdom and 'a short time' to see what he could do, have all the trials you like, test them, fool them, pain them with heat, cold, hunger, thirst, greed, poverty, licenciousness, gluttony, vice, anger, rage, whatever, shortlived richness, unwarranted pleasures, knowledge, 'technology', discoveries beyong their understanding, anything, evrything,…but you cannot Annihilate them, ok?' …End of part one…

JA
you say;;
each is just as worthy as the other for if any is less then the house will have a flaw, like the body, who devalues any part of themselves,
—————————————————
is this statement of yours not flaw??
the WORTHY is wrong;unless you call it NEEDED, just like all parts in a body are all different and do different work so that they are all needed to make the body function,
but only the work of the entire body is WORTHY.

so now understand scriptures;God is the head of Christ ,and Christ is the head of the church(body)and also all of creation until he turn it to his father and the Body (church )is over the earth.(wen it will come down from heaven to be with men )
BUT THIS WILL NEVER ELLIMINATE THE SUPREME RULER GOD THE FATHER.

Pierre

[shimmer]

Gene, and ED, thanks for your comments.

[shimmer]

JA, one of your posts were amazing. Back a page or two. And also I like how you said you dont need anything to help you but scripture and the Holy Spirit as your guide, thats true, I used to be the same with bod. I could open scripture anywhere, I would be led to answers, then I started using online searches, its not the same, being led by internet and myself or being led by God, very different

But I loved your post,

[JustAskin]

Shimmer,
As i yours.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,18:27)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,15:31) And what else has this “bullying” got you?  Well, it has gotten Shimmer to laugh along with you.  You slam me, she says “Ha ha, you're funny JA”.  Hmmmmmm…….what does scripture say? Matthew 18:6 NIV “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Not only do you cause her to stumble because of your words of Satan disguised as humor,   Mike, JA is tired…look at the times he is posting here, I never laughed Mike, …I said  – “JA, what are you saying ? Your funny” – (as…what are you saying ?  whatever ? Your funny…He was saying all kinds of things) …But I was laughing at him…not what he was saying because I couldnt understand what he was saying, which is why I said “what are you saying” And JA, why are you posting at that time of the morning ? You tell me not to.  You should be asleep.

Hi Shimmer,

Why did you cut off my quote there?  Why did you not include the scripture that you are understanding as plainly as it is written?

All things, including angels came FROM God.  All things, including angels came THROUGH Jesus.  It is what 1 Cor 8:6 (among other scriptures), plainly teaches.  You sounded like you believed the scripture but were asking for JA's “approval” of it.  Well, you won't get it.  So now what?  Will you believe the actual inspired word of God or JA?  

And I think I understand where you are on the begotten thing.  You agree that Jesus was the only begotten Son while on earth.  That's half the battle, knowing that he was God's only begotten Son BEFORE he was raised.  And that means you understand it to be a LITERAL begetting, not a “figurative” one, right?

If I have your beliefs correct, let me know.  Then we can move on and I can continue showing more scriptures that will hopefully bring your understanding ALL the way home.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2010,23:04)

HI JustAskin, You are hilarious with the verbal abusive nonsense! Ed J

Very good, brother Ed. Cheer him on. Encourage his un-Christian behavior.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 11 2010,14:37)

Sorry, i missed the threat. Yes, please set up the debate…

I'm doing it right now.

[shimmer]

Hi Mike,

I was only commenting on that part of your post, so I only quoted that part of your post..

I had a teenage daughter, she would screw her face up confused and say 'what are you saying ? Your funny” she wasnt laughing. So, likewise, I wasnt laughing.  Had to let you know. And though I like to listen to JA, and see him as someone to help when im confused over anything, I also disagree with some things he says,

Anyway, all things came from God, yes. Did God CREATE Jesus ? I believe so. Simply because God creates. God couldnt procreate because god is spirit.

Jesus was begotten when concieved of in the womb of Mary, this I believe, Gods firstbegotten..firstborn. Jesus was also again begotten from the dead. So firstborn from the dead.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,16:53)

Hi Mike, I was only commenting on that part of your post, so I only quoted that part of your post.. I had a teenage daughter, she would screw her face up confused and say 'what are you saying ? Your funny” she wasnt laughing. So, likewise, I wasnt laughing.  Had to let you know. And though I like to listen to JA, and see him as someone to help when im confused over anything, I also disagree with some things he says, Anyway, all things came from God, yes. Did God CREATE Jesus ? I believe so. Simply because God creates. God couldnt procreate because god is spirit. Jesus was begotten when concieved of in the womb of Mary, this I believe, Gods firstbegotten..firstborn. Jesus was also again begotten from the dead. So firstborn from the dead.

shimmer

so it would be true to say that Christ was begotten wen he was created right?

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,09:53)

Anyway, all things came from God, yes.

And what of the other part of 1 Cor 8:6? Did all things come through Jesus?

mike

[shimmer]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 12 2010,11:58)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,16:53) Hi Mike, I was only commenting on that part of your post, so I only quoted that part of your post.. I had a teenage daughter, she would screw her face up confused and say 'what are you saying ? Your funny” she wasnt laughing. So, likewise, I wasnt laughing.  Had to let you know. And though I like to listen to JA, and see him as someone to help when im confused over anything, I also disagree with some things he says, Anyway, all things came from God, yes. Did God CREATE Jesus ? I believe so. Simply because God creates. God couldnt procreate because god is spirit. Jesus was begotten when concieved of in the womb of Mary, this I believe, Gods firstbegotten..firstborn. Jesus was also again begotten from the dead. So firstborn from the dead. shimmer so it would be true to say that Christ was begotten wen he was created right? Pierre

Terrarica, correct, begotten in spirit when created before the earth, begotten again in the womb, and begotten again when risen up from the dead, each one being different,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,09:53)

Simply because God creates. God couldnt procreate because god is spirit. Jesus was begotten when concieved of in the womb of Mary, this I believe, Gods firstbegotten..firstborn. Jesus was also again begotten from the dead. So firstborn from the dead.

Shimmer:

Quote

Simply because God creates. God couldnt procreate because god is spirit.

Can you show me the scripture that says “spirit beings cannot procreate”?

Shimmer:

Quote

Jesus was begotten when concieved of in the womb of Mary, this I believe, Gods firstbegotten..firstborn.

But that wouldn't make him any less “procreated” than if he was begotten aions before he became flesh, right? And it also goes to show that the nonsense you've heard JA spouting about spirits not procreating is false. Because fleshly Jesus was procreated by a spirit.

Let's take this step by step. First, did I show you enough evidence in this post for you to realize that:
1. God DID “procreate”.
2. A spirit being can “procreate”?

peace and love,
mike

[shimmer]

The last 'begetting' being the most important

First spirit
Then flesh
Then risen to something higher and something different,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,10:03)

Terrarica, correct, begotten in spirit when created before the earth, begotten again in the womb, and begotten again when risen up from the dead, each one being different,

Shimmer! Why did you leave the “begotten in spirit when created before the earth” out in your posts to me?

You have just stated EXACTLY what I believe.

mike

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2010,11:58)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,09:53) Anyway, all things came from God, yes. And what of the other part of 1 Cor 8:6?  Did all things come through Jesus? mike

Mike, my bible says “One God the Father, form whom are all things,and for whom we exist, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we exist'

That could mean, that through the whole Jesus being born here, and Jesus overcoming, and Jesus being risen from the dead, giving a way to all who follow Him, then yes, of course, through Jesus through whom are all things, and through whom we exist, and continue to exist.

I read that through Jesus, all is held together.

All things created by God are unique in their kind…Look at insects for example, have you seen them close up ? Amazing. (Lions etc) So anything created in Heaven, things not seen, Angels and their types, Jesus as Spirit before the earth, We dont know how He was, it doesnt say.

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2010,12:06)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,10:03) Terrarica, correct, begotten in spirit when created before the earth, begotten again in the womb, and begotten again when risen up from the dead, each one being different, Shimmer!  Why did you leave the “begotten in spirit when created before the earth” out in your posts to me? You have just stated EXACTLY what I believe. mike

OK Mike.
JA doesnt believe that ?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,10:12)

That could mean, that through the whole Jesus being born here, and Jesus overcoming, and Jesus being risen from the dead, giving a way to all who follow Him, then yes, of course, through Jesus through whom are all things, and through whom we exist, and continue to exist.

But then you would have to have that same explanation for the “all things” that came from God.  Are those things you mentioned the only things you think Paul meant that came FROM GOD?

Shimmer, why do you want to do this?  Why do you want to search out a way for it not to say all things were created through Jesus?

Put the three scriptures we've discussed together, Shimmer.

Col 1
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

John 1
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 Cor 8
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Do you really even need the second two?  Doesn't the first one CLEARLY says all things whether on earth OR IN HEAVEN, whether visible OR INVISIBLE were created through Jesus?

Do you believe the scripture or not?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,10:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2010,12:06) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,10:03) Terrarica, correct, begotten in spirit when created before the earth, begotten again in the womb, and begotten again when risen up from the dead, each one being different, Shimmer!  Why did you leave the “begotten in spirit when created before the earth” out in your posts to me? You have just stated EXACTLY what I believe. mike OK Mike. JA doesnt believe that ?

No Shimmer.

JA believes Jesus was awarded the title of “only begotten Son of God” as some sort of status symbol he earned. He does not believe Jesus already WAS the only begotten Son of God who was sent down from heaven, dwelled as flesh for awhile, and then died and was raised.

mike

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2010,12:04)

Can you show me the scripture that says “spirit beings cannot procreate”?

There is no scripture that says that. But it has to be something which cant happen. You need a body to pro-create something similar. God doesnt have a body. God is spirit, thats scriptural. Without a body, a spirit cant do things like pro-create, a spirit has no need to eat, to go toilet, etc, only a flesh body can do those things.

Mary concieved not of man but of the power of the Holy Spirit. I dont know if pro-create is the word for that, but it had to have happened then and not before, before then Jesus would of been created as a spirit being, then he was made flesh, given a body.

Im seeing alot more now, I think its cause I quit smoking. More oxygen to the brain, haha, have to go, bye.

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 12 2010,12:35)

No Shimmer. JA believes Jesus was awarded the title of “only begotten Son of God” as some sort of status symbol he earned.  He does not believe Jesus already WAS the only begotten Son of God who was sent down from heaven, dwelled as flesh for awhile, and then died and was raised. mike

See thats where I would agree with JA, Jesus was A Son of God, and there are many sons of God in scripture, But He was risen to something much higher, He ACHIEVED what He did, from what I can see. I believe the word ONLY Begoteen son begins with Mary.

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