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Yeah,
I was thinking of that very scripture when I was making that last post to you.
Neither Paul nor Jesus were speaking in a LITERAL manner. Of course we all know that Satan is not LITERALLY the father of any of us.
It is metaphorical speech, and doesn't change what you said in the first line of your post.
Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2014,09:06) Wakeup, As I said previously, the angels are called the sons of God in the book of Job.
Nick makes a very good point by quoting Romans 8:14.
Kerwin.Nick is spinning the main topic,did you not notice.
There were no christians at that time.
Job was speaking of angels only, Ok.
The sons of God went **down** to defile them selves with
the daughters of men.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Do you realize it is written that God told the Israelites:
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,05:43) Wakeup, Do you realize it is written that God told the Israelites:
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
Kerwin.Yes that is true;we are all God's children.
But Job was specificly speaking of angels;the sons of God,
meeting with God in heaven.
Israel was not at that time.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I know that God calls his human adherents his children. He also called his angelic adherents his children. The book of Genesis provides human adherents for God and they are the line of Seth. The line of Cain on the other hand was cut off from his presence. God is always forbidding his people to marry unbelievers.
Kerwin,
“Adherents” has nothing to do with the LITERAL. Satan is as much a LITERAL son of God as Michael and Gabriel are.
Cain is as much a LITERAL son of God as Seth is.
The teaching in Romans is more in line with John 1:12-13. Both John and Paul were speaking about becoming a child of God in a completely different way………. a BETTER way.
But even those who don't choose that better way are still LITERAL children of God.
Malachi 2:10
Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?Your “Seth versus Cain” theory of Genesis 6:1-2 is unsupported, and nonsensical for reasons I've already shown you.
Remember that Deuteronomy 14:1, which you quoted, refers to the ENTIRE nation of Israel being “children of God” – despite the fact that the majority of them were stiff-necked people who rebelled AGAINST God at every turn.
Mike,
God does not sire children as a man does so I am not sure where the “literal” comes from.
Both angels and humans were created by God and if Scripture was speaking of created it would be the sons of God mixed with the daughters of God and so sinned.
The Israelites were God's children by the word as well as being created by him. In using it this way the sin was for sons that were sired by the word of God to marry the daughter sired by word of man.
Quote (kerwin @ May 11 2014,06:22) Mike, God does not sire children as a man does so I am not sure where the “literal” comes from.
Both angels and humans were created by God and if Scripture was speaking of created it would be the sons of God mixed with the daughters of God and so sinned.
The Israelites were God's children by the word as well as being created by him. In using it this way the sin was for sons that were sired by the word of God to marry the daughter sired by word of man.
Kerwin.Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
FLESH CAN NOT COME BEFORE GOD.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
GOD ASKED SATAN WHERE HE CAME FROM;
AND SATN ANSWERED; FROM THE EARTH.Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
SPEAKING OF JOB IN THE EARTH.
HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND TO DECERN THE SCRIPTURES?
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Human being come before God quite commonly because even in the AV of the KJB it is written that the Israelites under Joshua presented themselves before God, Joshua 24:1.
Quote (kerwin @ May 11 2014,06:32) Wakeup, Human being come before God quite commonly because even in the AV of the KJB it is written that the Israelites under Joshua presented themselves before God, Joshua 24:1.
Kerwinthe children of God are so called when they are obedient to him,
and God is their father ;other wise they could be called whore ,stubborn, stiff necks,rebels children,
and we know that only God as true children not false children ,
T,
Yes, after all it was Israelites that Jesus called the children of the Devil even though God said they were to be his children instead.
Quote (kerwin @ May 11 2014,11:07) T, Yes, after all it was Israelites that Jesus called the children of the Devil even though God said they were to be his children instead.
Kcorrect,only two possibilities are given ;serve God or the devil
Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,13:22) Mike, God does not sire children as a man does so I am not sure where the “literal” comes from.
Kerwin,God is more your “literal Father” than is the earthly father THROUGH WHOM God made you.
A “LITERAL” father would be the one who LITERALLY made you. God is that one.
Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,13:22) Both angels and humans were created by God and if Scripture was speaking of created it would be the sons of God mixed with the daughters of God and so sinned.
Is mankind called “sons of God”? Are they called “sons of man”? Yes to both, right?So if YOU were the one who's job it was to teach us that ANGELS mated with HUMAN woman, would YOU say, “The sons of God mated with the daughters of GOD“?
Or would you “narrow the search” by distinguishing those particular “daughters of God” as the HUMAN daughters of God, ie: “the daughters of mankind” ?
I mean, just think it out Kerwin. We know that angels are literally “sons of God”, and we know that human women are literally “daughters of God”. But the HUMAN “sons of God” are often distinguished from the SPIRIT “sons of God” in scripture by being called “sons of MAN”……. even though they are also “sons of GOD”.
On the other hand, if the writer intended to tell us that sons of SETH mated with daughters of CAIN, he could have just said that.
Besides, there is NO scripture that indicates Seth's offspring were “of God”, while Cain's offspring were “of man”. This is just another one of those things that you've made up in your own mind.
Consider Enoch, Kerwin. Even if that book wasn't really written by Enoch, it is clear that it was written by a Jew, and read and believed on by Jews. The God-inspired writers of the NT quoted from it, and alluded to it on numerous occasions.
So in THEIR MINDS, Genesis 6 speaks about ANGELS mating with HUMANS. The writers of the LXX understood it the same way, since they translated “Nephilim” as “GIANTS”. And there is no sensible reason that a mating between Seth's sons and Cain's daughters would produce GIANTS.
You are off in La-La Land on this one.
Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,13:22) The Israelites were God's children by the word as well as being created by him. In using it this way the sin was for sons that were sired by the word of God to marry the daughter sired by word of man.
But those same Israelites, who you say were “sired by the word”, REBELLED AGAINST GOD at every opportunity, Kerwin. So how is it that this STIFF-NECKED bunch of rebels are “sired by the word” more than Cain's offspring?
What SCRIPTURE teaches you that Cain's offspring were “sired by man”, while Seth's offspring were “sired by the word of God”?
You are just making stuff up. And the stuff you are making up goes AGAINST the common sense understanding of Genesis 6, AGAINST the LXX writer's understanding of Gen 6, and AGAINST the Book of Enoch's understanding of Gen 6.
The NT writers read and believed the LXX. They read and believed Enoch. So if you are right about this, then they were all wrong about it.
Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,18:32) Wakeup, Human being come before God quite commonly because even in the AV of the KJB it is written that the Israelites under Joshua presented themselves before God, Joshua 24:1.
Games. Nothing but games.Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,23:07) T, Yes, after all it was Israelites that Jesus called the children of the Devil even though God said they were to be his children instead.
Pierre and Kerwin,It was also those stubborn, stiff-necked rebels who Jehovah Himself called “children of God”.
Don't forget that part. Being “stubborn” does not mean you cease to be a “child of God”.
But our hope is to be a “child of God” in a much better way than we already are.
Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2014,18:12) Wakeup, Did God lie to Adam when he told him that in the day he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good evil that he would die?
Kerwin.Why would that be a lie.
If you understand it correctly.Adam had severed the bodage with his God through disobedience.
He is spiritually dead,taken by the devil that same day.
Then 930 yrs later his body seased to function.This is his physical death.There are many spiritually dead today,but still functioning,
untill the physical death comes upon them.
Many lived just a very short life.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,00:20) Kerwin, God is more your “literal Father” than is the earthly father THROUGH WHOM God made you.
A “LITERAL” father would be the one who LITERALLY made you. God is that one.
Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Mike,A very good use of Matthew 23:9
Mike,
Quote Is mankind called “sons of God”? Are they called “sons of man”? Yes to both, right? So if YOU were the one who's job it was to teach us that ANGELS mated with HUMAN woman, would YOU say, “The sons of God mated with the daughters of GOD”?
More context would be the best choice but with the limited choices available just saying messengers mated with humans would have got the message through more clearly. It is of no account to our disagreement as God chooses to use parable when he could instead speak clearly.
Mike,
Quote What SCRIPTURE teaches you that Cain's offspring were “sired by man”, while Seth's offspring were “sired by the word of God”? Cain was cursed from the ground while Seth was not.
Genesis 4:12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 when thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Cain was hid from God's face while Set was not.
Genesis 4:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
In short God disowned Cain but not Seth.
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