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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2014,01:31) Hi,
The trees of life in rev 22.2f produce fruit once a month.
Does this mean Adam needed to sup monthly and one that fruit does not make for permanent life?
Nick,It looks like symbolism as we are told elsewhere in Revelations the tree is in the middle of Paradise. Then you have the 12 types of fruit that are each ripe once every month. In other words 12 time 12 or 144.
Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2014,12:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2014,01:31) Hi,
The trees of life in rev 22.2f produce fruit once a month.
Does this mean Adam needed to sup monthly and one that fruit does not make for permanent life?
Nick,It looks like symbolism as we are told elsewhere in Revelations the tree is in the middle of Paradise. Then you have the 12 types of fruit that are each ripe once every month. In other words 12 time 12 or 144.
Kerwin.And the leaves are for the healings of the nations.
wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:18) Mike, So according to you Cain who was hid from God's face was still a son of God?
Absolutely! If YOUR son does a very bad thing, perhaps even murder, does he cease to be your son?
Satan is also still a son of God – despite doing far worse things than Cain did.
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:20) Mike, I did not deny they were. It is Wakeup that jumped to the conclusion that I did.
And why do you suppose he jumped to that conclusion, Kerwin? Perhaps because of that unrelated scripture?Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:24)
But you understand from context (namely: Satan) that the “sons of God” in Job 1 and 2 were angels.Why then would you NOT understand from context (namely: the “sons of God” are DISTINGUISHED FROM the “daughters of man”) that the “sons of God” in Gen 6 were also angels?
Mike,The sons of God are distinguished from men even when they are human.
In the OT? Show me.Quote (Wakeup @ May 12 2014,19:40) MikeB. How many times did Adam an Eve have to eat of the fruit
to break the law?
Another good point, Wakeup. Only once with that fruit.That doesn't necessarily mean it was the same for the fruit of life, but it does help me lean that way.
Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2014,18:32) hi Mike the tree i geneses is a normal tree produce fruits according to the seasons just as God made it ,there is nothing that would say otherwise ,so the answer is NO
Sounds reasonable, but not conclusive. Even today, different trees fruit at different time intervals. Some once a year….. others many times a year.Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2014,18:32) and there it says specifically that the tree will produce fruits every month ,(could be that there will be a monthly feast to go to the city and be fed with the fruits of live coming from God )
That's an interesting thought……. but again, not conclusive.I guess the bottom line is that we just don't know these things for sure. Not enough information is given to us.
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:31)
God spoke of what was – right then and there. They were indeed still His children – even in their rebellious state.
Mike,Are you saying Jesus was lying when he called the wayward Jews the children of the devil?
Nope.Why……. are YOU saying that Satan was their LITERAL father who brought them into existence?
Quote (Wakeup @ May 13 2014,14:04) Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2014,12:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2014,01:31) Hi,
The trees of life in rev 22.2f produce fruit once a month.
Does this mean Adam needed to sup monthly and one that fruit does not make for permanent life?
Nick,It looks like symbolism as we are told elsewhere in Revelations the tree is in the middle of Paradise. Then you have the 12 types of fruit that are each ripe once every month. In other words 12 time 12 or 144.
Kerwin.And the leaves are for the healings of the nations.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Symbolically.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:31)
God spoke of what was – right then and there. They were indeed still His children – even in their rebellious state.
Mike,Are you saying Jesus was lying when he called the wayward Jews the children of the devil?
Nope.Why……. are YOU saying that Satan was their LITERAL father who brought them into existence?
Mike,Neither Satan nor God father children and human beings do. God is the creator so all are his children by creation. The Jews are God's children by the word and those who reject the word reject his parentage. Jesus was speaking to those that reject the word of God, even though they were Jews.
There is nothing in what I am saying that is hard to understand so why are you having trouble understanding?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:14) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:20) Mike, I did not deny they were. It is Wakeup that jumped to the conclusion that I did.
And why do you suppose he jumped to that conclusion, Kerwin? Perhaps because of that unrelated scripture?
Mike,Because he wanted to jump to that conclusion. It is a behavior common to man.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:09) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:18) Mike, So according to you Cain who was hid from God's face was still a son of God?
Absolutely! If YOUR son does a very bad thing, perhaps even murder, does he cease to be your son?Satan is also still a son of God – despite doing far worse things than Cain did.
Mike,Quote dis·own
disˈōn/
verb
past tense: disowned; past participle: disownedrefuse to acknowledge or maintain any connection with.
“Howard's rich family had disowned him because of his marriage”
synonyms:reject, cast off/aside, abandon, renounce, deny;
turn one's back on, wash one's hands of, have nothing more to do with;
literaryforsake
“he has been disowned by his parents”Since you seem not to figure it out God disowned Cain.
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2014,14:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:31)
God spoke of what was – right then and there. They were indeed still His children – even in their rebellious state.
Mike,Are you saying Jesus was lying when he called the wayward Jews the children of the devil?
Nope.Why……. are YOU saying that Satan was their LITERAL father who brought them into existence?
Mike,Neither Satan nor God father children and human beings do. God is the creator so all are his children by creation. The Jews are God's children by the word and those who reject the word reject his parentage. Jesus was speaking to those that reject the word of God, even though they were Jews.
There is nothing in what I am saying that is hard to understand so why are you having trouble understanding?
Kerwin,You made the claim that ONLY those who adhere to the word of God are “children of God”.
I'm trying to correct your misunderstanding about that. Have I succeeded yet?
Hi ,
Rom 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,17:02) Hi ,
Rom 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Yes Nick,That speaks about those who have chosen to become children of God IN A BETTER WAY than they were before. (See John 1:12-13)
But even before they chose to walk in the ways of God, they were already “children of God”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2014,21:15) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:24)
But you understand from context (namely: Satan) that the “sons of God” in Job 1 and 2 were angels.Why then would you NOT understand from context (namely: the “sons of God” are DISTINGUISHED FROM the “daughters of man”) that the “sons of God” in Gen 6 were also angels?
Mike,The sons of God are distinguished from men even when they are human.
In the OT? Show me.
Kerwin?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,17:13) hi MB,
It seems to be the only relevant sonship.
Unless folk join his kingdom they are gone
Yeah,Like I said much earlier, those scriptures involve being a son of God in a much BETTER way than you already were.
But “BETTER” doesn't eliminate the fact that you already were a son of God. And that's all I'm trying to point out.
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2014,14:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:09) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:18) Mike, So according to you Cain who was hid from God's face was still a son of God?
Absolutely! If YOUR son does a very bad thing, perhaps even murder, does he cease to be your son?Satan is also still a son of God – despite doing far worse things than Cain did.
Mike,Quote dis·own
disˈōn/
verb
past tense: disowned; past participle: disownedrefuse to acknowledge or maintain any connection with.
“Howard's rich family had disowned him because of his marriage”
synonyms:reject, cast off/aside, abandon, renounce, deny;
turn one's back on, wash one's hands of, have nothing more to do with;
literaryforsake
“he has been disowned by his parents”Since you seem not to figure it out God disowned Cain.
First, the word “disown” isn't actually in the scriptural account, Kerwin. So why would you post a definition of that word, and then act like I'm some kind of idiot?Second, even if a man “disowned” his son for whatever reason, that man is still the literal father of the boy he disowned.
Third, Adam and Eve also “hid from God's presence” after they sinned, but Adam was still listed as “the son of God” in Luke's genealogy.
Genesis 3:8
And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.And “hidden from God's presence” is also what happened to Cain.
Genesis 4:14
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.Fourth, if God truly “disowned” Cain, then He wouldn't have put a mark on him to keep the others from killing him. Nor would He have blessed Cain with a fertile wife and many children. Cain still ended up living a life that was blessed by God in many ways.
I truly see nothing that says Cain or his offspring were not “children of God”, Kerwin.
Once again, you opt for the much less sensible understanding of a scripture, because the most sensible understanding does not align with the things you've decided in your own head.
Genesis 5 starts off with:
Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of adam. In the day that God created adam, in the likeness of God made he him;2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name adam, in the day when they were created.
So it points out that human beings, in general, were called “adam”. It then goes through some of the offspring of Adam and Eve – through the line of Seth. Only the line of Seth is mentioned, right? And these are the ones God called “adam”, right? Chapter 6 continues:
Genesis 6
1 And it came to pass, when adam began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of adam that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
There is nothing being said about Cain or his lineage at this point, Kerwin. The entirety of chapter 5 is about Seth's line, and how they were called “adam” by God.
Then it jumps to the point where “sons of God” started noticing that the “daughters of adam” were good looking.
These are the same “daughters of adam” that are mentioned in many verses in chapter 5, like this one:
4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
There hasn't been a change of subject concerning “daughters of adam”. Cain and his offspring haven't been mentioned since chapter 4.
The “daughters of adam” in chapter 6 are the same “daughters of adam” mentioned in chapter 5 – all of whom came from Seth's line.
And it would be senseless to mention Seth's male offspring as “sons of God” – just to tell us that they took Seth's female offspring as wives, right?
So the LOGICAL understanding is that the “sons of God”, who came to the daughters of adam, that had just been mentioned all throughout chapter 5, were God's SPIRIT sons, the angels.
This also fits with the LXX – which says “GIANTS” were born as the hybrid result of these unions. These “GIANTS” are also explicitly described in Enoch as the offspring of angels mating with human women. Enoch says they took to eating human beings after they had nearly eliminated the other food supplies on the earth.
Enoch 7
9 These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them.10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.
11 And the women conceiving brought forth giants,
12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
Apparently, the Book of Jubilees also has this account of what happened. I haven't read any of that book yet.
But even if these books are not supposed to be “canon”, it is clear that the Jews of the day read these books, and therefore understood Genesis 6 the way these books described it.
It is the way I understood Gen 6 before I ever heard of the books of Enoch and Jubilees.
So we don't really NEED these other books to come to that same understanding of Gen 6, Kerwin. But they do add much support to the common understanding of the “sons of God” and “daughters of adam” in Gen 6.
I'll leave you with the NET translation:
Genesis 6:4 NET ©
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this), when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 15 2014,04:58) Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2014,14:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2014,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,19:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,01:31)
God spoke of what was – right then and there. They were indeed still His children – even in their rebellious state.
Mike,Are you saying Jesus was lying when he called the wayward Jews the children of the devil?
Nope.Why……. are YOU saying that Satan was their LITERAL father who brought them into existence?
Mike,Neither Satan nor God father children and human beings do. God is the creator so all are his children by creation. The Jews are God's children by the word and those who reject the word reject his parentage. Jesus was speaking to those that reject the word of God, even though they were Jews.
There is nothing in what I am saying that is hard to understand so why are you having trouble understanding?
Kerwin,You made the claim that ONLY those who adhere to the word of God are “children of God”.
I'm trying to correct your misunderstanding about that. Have I succeeded yet?
Mike,If you believe that is true then you are essentially calling Jesus a liar. He is the one who stated than certain Jews were the children of the devil.
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