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If it was me, I would have built a skyscraper. Much better for the environment. Not to mention closer to Heaven and all that.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 19 2013,15:55) If it was me, I would have built a skyscraper. Much better for the environment. Not to mention closer to Heaven and all that.
t8are you not a little ahead of that time were it was a vine leaf that was used as underwear
Quote (david @ Feb. 18 2013,21:54) I don't know that anyone is descended from Abel.
Okay. So WHY didn't Abel have children of his own, if the norm was “breeding like rabbits”?There are two possibles:
1. Abel was still fairly young when Cain killed him, which makes me wonder how SO MANY people had already been born by Eve. (It would also make me wonder why Adam was 130 before God gave Eve Seth to REPLACE Abel.)
2. Abel and Cain were in their hundreds when Abel was murdered (Eve was given Seth to REPLACE Abel when Adam was 130, and Enoch seems to have been Cain's FIRSTBORN – AFTER he was banished). These things would match the other scriptures that speak of men having their first children at an OLD age (Noah and his three sons). This would also speak against their being MANY adams in existence when Cain was banished – and afraid of “the others”.
David, please comment on my post about “sub-humans” that were not called “adam” by the Hebrews. This would account for the “others”, but would also affirm scripture that Adam was the first “adam”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,12:55) Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:34) define what you mean by “humanoid”
This is from Wikipedia:
The timeline of human evolution outlines the major events in the development of human species, and the evolution of humans' ancestors.Scroll down about 3/4 through this page, and you'll see a dude called Homo heidelbergensis, which is reportedly an ancestor of humans, but not an actual homo sapiens (modern man).
What I suggest is that Homo heidelbergensis was already living at large throughout the world when God decided to create homo sapiens, and place him the in Garden of Eden. I suggest that the Hebrew word “adam” refers ONLY to homo sapiens, of which Adam was the first – and that while there is no direct mention of the Homo heidelbergensis who already populated the earth, the latter was one of the “beasts of the field” that was created before “adam/homo sapiens”.
And while I don't agree with the green words above, that Homo heidelbergensis was an “ancestor” of homo sapiens/adam, I agree that this “sub-human, but almost human species” lived before God created Adam.
I believe the Homo heidelbergensis are the “others” that Cain was afraid of.
(Surely you know that I'm using “Homo heidelbergensis” as an “example word” – just to convey my thinking. I have no idea what these “sub-adam beings” would have been called in Hebrew.)
This is a pretty unique idea. Not sure how to respond.To all,
Cain was a settler and built a “city” that grew as his children of man grew in number. It probably started out as a single building and grew as more was required.
non sense. this topic is non sense . adam is the first man and no doubt about it. the bible said that. those people who believe that adam was not the first man should make their own version LOL
jammin,
Everyone who has posted on this site (with the possible exception of Colter) believes Adam was the first adam.
We're discussing the possiblity that there were other pre-adam bipeds already in existence before God created the first adam.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,00:49) To all, Cain was a settler and built a “city” that grew as his children of man grew in number. It probably started out as a single building and grew as more was required.
Who else was said to have built a “city”, Kerwin? Did Abraham? How about Issac for his small group? Jacob?In other words, which other small group of people were ever said in scripture to have built a city?
There is some talk about it in Gen 10 and 11, but it's hard to tell how many people were involved in building the cities.
(Also notice Gen 11, and how the post-flood men seemed to have their firstborn at a much earlier age than the pre-flood men.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,12:36) jammin, Everyone who has posted on this site (with the possible exception of Colter) believes Adam was the first adam.
We're discussing the possiblity that there were other pre-adam bipeds already in existence before God created the first adam.
there is no possbility mike. the bible said there was no human to till the ground. then God created the first man, ADAM.so stop dreaming boy LOL
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,01:22) Quote (david @ Feb. 18 2013,21:54) I don't know that anyone is descended from Abel.
Okay. So WHY didn't Abel have children of his own, if the norm was “breeding like rabbits”?There are two possibles:
1. Abel was still fairly young when Cain killed him, which makes me wonder how SO MANY people had already been born by Eve. (It would also make me wonder why Adam was 130 before God gave Eve Seth to REPLACE Abel.)
2. Abel and Cain were in their hundreds when Abel was murdered (Eve was given Seth to REPLACE Abel when Adam was 130, and Enoch seems to have been Cain's FIRSTBORN – AFTER he was banished). These things would match the other scriptures that speak of men having their first children at an OLD age (Noah and his three sons). This would also speak against their being MANY adams in existence when Cain was banished – and afraid of “the others”.
David, please comment on my post about “sub-humans” that were not called “adam” by the Hebrews. This would account for the “others”, but would also affirm scripture that Adam was the first “adam”.
MIKESO THOSE WERE ANIMALS NOT HUMANS
right ??they could gorillas,or something like them
right ??Even human beings are “animals”, Pierre. But yes, I think you're BEGINNING to understand the point I'm trying to make.
NO, I don't think “the others” were gorillas.
I believe they were a humanoid species, not totally unlike “man”, but also not quite “man”.
Remember the original Planet of the Apes with Charlton Heston?
Remember all the “caveman” type humans who couldn't speak? Charlton Heston was the only human on that planet that knew how to speak, right?
According to the movie, the apes evolved bigger brains, while the humans evolved smaller ones. The apes were the brainy scientists, and builders of cities, while the humans were running around in the wild, covered with loin cloths, unable to even communicate through speech.
Now just forget the apes for a minute, and imagine that these “little-brained humanoids” were already existent on earth before God created Charlton Heston, and put him in the Garden of Eden. And the species that went forth from Charlton were called “charltons”, while the “little-brained humanoids” were simply considered as part of the many “beasts of the field”.
In that scenario, “little-brained humanoids” were already existing all over the place before God created the first “charlton”, and named him “Charlton”. (Get it? Adam was the first adam/Charlton was the first charlton)
In the movie, the intelligent “charlton” was able to crudely communicate with the non-intelligent “little-brained humanoids”. He was even able to have sex with one of the “little-brained humanoids” – if I remember correctly.
So imagine a similar thing with Cain. He was the “charlton” sent out to live among “the others”, who were really the “little-brained humanoids”.
The “little-brained humanoids” were sexually compatible with Cain, the “charlton”, but they were not called “charltons” like Cain and his father.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,05:52) Even human beings are “animals”, Pierre. But yes, I think you're BEGINNING to understand the point I'm trying to make. NO, I don't think “the others” were gorillas.
I believe they were a humanoid species, not totally unlike “man”, but also not quite “man”.
Remember the original Planet of the Apes with Charlton Heston?
Remember all the “caveman” type humans who couldn't speak? Charlton Heston was the only human on that planet that knew how to speak, right?
According to the movie, the apes evolved bigger brains, while the humans evolved smaller ones. The apes were the brainy scientists, and builders of cities, while the humans were running around in the wild, covered with loin cloths, unable to even communicate through speech.
Now just forget the apes for a minute, and imagine that these “little-brained humanoids” were already existent on earth before God created Charlton Heston, and put him in the Garden of Eden. And the species that went forth from Charlton were called “charltons”, while the “little-brained humanoids” were simply considered as part of the many “beasts of the field”.
In that scenario, “little-brained humanoids” were already existing all over the place before God created the first “charlton”, and named him “Charlton”. (Get it? Adam was the first adam/Charlton was the first charlton)
In the movie, the intelligent “charlton” was able to crudely communicate with the non-intelligent “little-brained humanoids”. He was even able to have sex with one of the “little-brained humanoids” – if I remember correctly.
So imagine a similar thing with Cain. He was the “charlton” sent out to live among “the others”, who were really the “little-brained humanoids”.
The “little-brained humanoids” were sexually compatible with Cain, the “charlton”, but they were not called “charltons” like Cain and his father.
mIKE THOSE APE MOVIES DROVE MY MOTHER IN LAW NUTSI never was interested into them so I am in no way to discuss abode them ,but the way you look at the creation possibility of what could be or could not be ,to me scriptures says that Adam was first ,and that he did not found anyone to be a companion to him ,this established my basic understanding ,as for Cain going
to the land of NOD ,and away from the presence of God are two things not 100% clearare those two things connected in some way ,???
we know that we can not hide from God ,so what does it mean
Genesis 4:14
Context
NET ©
Look! You are driving me off the land 1 today, and I must hide from your presence. 2 I will be a homeless wanderer on the earth; whoever finds me will kill me.”
NIV ©
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
NASB ©
“Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
NLT ©
You have banished me from my land and from your presence; you have made me a wandering fugitive. All who see me will try to kill me!”
MSG ©
You've thrown me off the land and I can never again face you. I'm a homeless wanderer on Earth and whoever finds me will kill me.”
BBE ©
You have sent me out this day from the face of the earth and from before your face; I will be a wanderer in flight over the earth, and whoever sees me will put me to death.
NRSV ©
Today you have driven me away from the soil, and I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and anyone who meets me may kill me.”
NKJV ©
“Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”but what does it mean driven from the face of the ground
it seems to mean that he could never find stability “”and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”
here it seems that CAIN talks in view of the future and so could really mean that other humans find him and remember what he did or could have been informed of what he did and so find it legit to kill him ,and so God answered him ,
Ge 4:15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so;if anyone kills Cain , he will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.
here again in the future it says ;””so that no one who found him would kill him.”” so he would go to were not to many would go ,but in time it could be possible and this was CAIN worry,
Genesis 4:15
Context
NET ©
But the Lord said to him, “All right then, 1 if anyone kills Cain, Cain will be avenged seven times as much.” 2 Then the Lord put a special mark 3 on Cain so that no one who found him would strike him down. 4
NIV ©
But the LORD said to him, “Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no-one who found him would kill him.
NASB ©
So the LORD said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.
NLT ©
The LORD replied, “They will not kill you, for I will give seven times your punishment to anyone who does.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain to warn anyone who might try to kill him.
MSG ©
GOD told him, “No. Anyone who kills Cain will pay for it seven times over.” GOD put a mark on Cain to protect him so that no one who met him would kill him.
BBE ©
And the Lord said, Truly, if Cain is put to death, seven lives will be taken for his. And the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one might put him to death.
NRSV ©
Then the LORD said to him, “Not so! Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him.
NKJV ©
And the LORD said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.why would someone be punished seven time over for having killed a man that killed his brother
this would be similar to ;why God did not killed Satan after he sinnedQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,18:29) 1. why would someone be punished seven time over for having killed a man that killed his brother 2. this would be similar to ;why God did not killed Satan after he sinned
1. Perhaps God was teaching that two wrongs don't make a right.
2. God decided to let Satan have his rebellion and play it out – so at the end, the other sons of God will know who was really right. Surely they are able to see the mess Satan has made of things. And this will convince them that God isn't just a tyrant who will destroy anyone who challenges Him – but instead He is the one who was right all along. HE knew He was right. But now the others can see it for themselves.
As for the rest of your post, this is how I currently understand it:
1. Adam was first.
2. Eve was second.
3. Cain was third.
4. Abel was fourth.
5. Seth, the one who REPLACED Abel, was the fifth “adam” to exist on earth.I believe the scripture says Adam had many other sons and daughters AFTER Seth for a reason. I'm not going to “justify” things to fit the easy way by imagining they had loads of other children, which then had loads of their own, all in less than 130 years time.
I am going by the ages of the men in Gen 5. I am going by the fact that ALL of them are said to have had other sons and daughters AFTER that first one mentioned.
I am going by the fact Noah was 500 years old before he had his firstborn. And all three of his children were childless at the age of 100+ years.
I am going by the fact that Abel had no children of his own when he died. So if he died young, then how could there have been so many “others”? If he died old, then it's more evidence that they weren't breeding like rabbits.
Did you ever consider the possibility that Cain and Abel were childless at the time of Abel's death simply because there were no “female adams” on earth except for their mother at that time?
Quote I am going by the fact Noah was 500 years old before he had his firstborn. And all three of his children were childless at the age of 100+ years. you know what i find curious is that all the first born of those mention in scriptures are only male descends,I can not see one female by name ,can you ???not even after their first born
Quote Did you ever consider the possibility that Cain and Abel were childless at the time of Abel's death simply because there were no “female adams” on earth except for their mother at that time? did you ever considered that their is not mention of any female gender until after Sept his born strange
do you see that what is mention at Cain birth his not mention at Abel birth its like yeah he is there ok and yet Paul mention him as a righteous ,HEB 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous,so I do not share your view on this my friend
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,10:52) Even human beings are “animals”, Pierre. But yes, I think you're BEGINNING to understand the point I'm trying to make. NO, I don't think “the others” were gorillas.
I believe they were a humanoid species, not totally unlike “man”, but also not quite “man”.
Remember the original Planet of the Apes with Charlton Heston?
Remember all the “caveman” type humans who couldn't speak? Charlton Heston was the only human on that planet that knew how to speak, right?
According to the movie, the apes evolved bigger brains, while the humans evolved smaller ones. The apes were the brainy scientists, and builders of cities, while the humans were running around in the wild, covered with loin cloths, unable to even communicate through speech.
Now just forget the apes for a minute, and imagine that these “little-brained humanoids” were already existent on earth before God created Charlton Heston, and put him in the Garden of Eden. And the species that went forth from Charlton were called “charltons”, while the “little-brained humanoids” were simply considered as part of the many “beasts of the field”.
In that scenario, “little-brained humanoids” were already existing all over the place before God created the first “charlton”, and named him “Charlton”. (Get it? Adam was the first adam/Charlton was the first charlton)
In the movie, the intelligent “charlton” was able to crudely communicate with the non-intelligent “little-brained humanoids”. He was even able to have sex with one of the “little-brained humanoids” – if I remember correctly.
So imagine a similar thing with Cain. He was the “charlton” sent out to live among “the others”, who were really the “little-brained humanoids”.
The “little-brained humanoids” were sexually compatible with Cain, the “charlton”, but they were not called “charltons” like Cain and his father.
did God say HUMANs are animals? where did you get that in the bible?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,07:42) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,00:49) To all, Cain was a settler and built a “city” that grew as his children of man grew in number. It probably started out as a single building and grew as more was required.
Who else was said to have built a “city”, Kerwin? Did Abraham? How about Issac for his small group? Jacob?In other words, which other small group of people were ever said in scripture to have built a city?
There is some talk about it in Gen 10 and 11, but it's hard to tell how many people were involved in building the cities.
(Also notice Gen 11, and how the post-flood men seemed to have their firstborn at a much earlier age than the pre-flood men.)
Mike,God's Spirit allowed them to live longer. Perhaps it increased the length it took them to mature as well.
Asshur build several, Babel was built.
I know of no city that was built in a day.
“Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape”.
That is the line I remember the most.Loved the first movie. The beginning was great. It was slow and unravelled the truth slowly. The end was even better.
Seen as how there is great speculation here, (no problem with that as long as it remains speculation), I will throw one out there.
If our destiny is to become like the angels, when were angels once like us? Were they physical beings living on a planet somewhere and graduated to Spiritual bodies and able to traverse the heavens?
Is this why the sons of God were able to come down and have relations with the woman of men. Even though angels do not pro-create, perhaps their former bodies were able to?
I also mentioned once before. It is even possible that the council of gods are representative of 12 ages or worlds. As men are represented by 2 men, and there are 24 elders in Heaven, then who knows.
If not, I claim the movie rights to the idea. I might call it “The council of the gods”.
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