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Quote (Wakeup @ June 23 2014,17:54) Mikeb. 1. *WHY* I wonder do you not believe that *GOD CAN*
give His own Word a form into His own image?2. Why do you believe that it *CAN NOT* happen; and has
not happen?3. Why can God create spirit creatures; BUT CAN NOT
TRANFORM HIS OWN WORD INTO A LIVING BEING?
What is God's propblem Here?4. Why according to you; Can God only create some other
creature to carry His commandments? And *CAN NOT*
make His own Word flesh?5.(a)Why can you not believe John's statement in John 1:1:
and have to change it to satisfy your own undestanding?
ie; In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with
God ;and the Word was God. Why not ask for
understanding; (b)instead of changing God's Word to satisfy
own spirit? Or own EGO?6. Why man always change/twist the scriptures that can not
be understood by man's spirit? Instead of asking God for
guidence to understand?7. Why can you not believe, that God can provide true
seekers with scriptures that are not corrupted?8. Why think; that satan is a better strategist than God?
Has he outsmarted God in that area?wakeup.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,1) I don't understand this question, so I don't know how to respond to it.
God's word became flesh FIRST in Jesus at the Jordan river,
and later in believers SECONDLY at “Pentecost”;
and THIRDLY in all “Born Again” believers.
2) Again your understanding is not clearly defined.3) Yea, what is the problem here? He can certainly do point #3 – because He already has. (ref. 2Cor.6:16)
4) I believe my answer to #3 covers this.
5a) not applicable to me
b) again not applicable6) Answered in previous post
7) again not applicable to me
8) again not applicable to me
OOK – are you satisfied now?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ June 23 2014,00:54) 3. Why can God create spirit creatures; BUT CAN NOT
TRANFORM HIS OWN WORD INTO A LIVING BEING?
What is God's propblem Here?
If God caused one of His own spoken words to become a different living, breathing being, then God has CREATED a different living, breathing being, Wakeup.You say God caused His Word to become a completely separate, individual being, complete with his own mind, will, and existence apart from God Himself (ie: He was no longer actually “God the Father Himself”).
And by saying that, you are actually saying that God CREATED a new living being.
If there was ONLY God at first, but then God caused there to be God AND this other living being………. it means God CREATED a new living being.
The only other option is that BOTH God AND this other living being have existed from eternity.
Wakeup, all I ever see from you is your “explanations” of how things were/are. And then I show you CLEAR scriptures that PROHIBIT that from being the way things REALLY were/are. And then you never actually ADDRESS those scriptures – or how those scriptures CONTRADICT the things you “explain”.
You just IGNORE those scriptures altogether, and go back to “explaining” the same old things over again.
This is no way to have a scriptural discussion. And I am no longer interested.
I will await journey's response to those latest scriptures I posted for her……….. the ones that make it CLEAR that the BEING Jesus will rule from the throne of David as Prince FOREVER.
Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2014,05:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:22)
(1) And what does the fact that God never changes do to your theory? Doesn't your (and Wakeup's) theory call for God to “change”, by part of Him becoming a different living entity who is no longer “God Himself”?(2) I would like to watch you and Wakeup discuss this theory amongst yourselves – in detail.
(3) I would love to watch you guys “explain” how a part of “God Himself” became a prophet, priest, servant, son, sacrificial lamb, and anointed one of “God Himself”.
(4a) I would love to see which SCRIPTURES you guys use to support this theory.
(4b) Surely you have more support than just the comically flawed John 1:1 translation of “and the Word was God“, right?
Hi Mike,1) You are on the right trail now!
2) It might be more productive for you and me instead to discuss it.
3) I want to address this very point with you and in greater detail, but from a completely different angle instead thereof, will you indulge?
4a) I have them on file.
b) irrelevant (not important or relating to what is being discussed right now)
1. How? By saying your doctrine requires God to CHANGE – when scripture says He doesn't?3. I will indulge SHORT and TO-THE-POINT posts.
4a. List away……… ONE AT A TIME.
4b. It is the one mistranslated verse upon which Wakeup bases his entire flawed doctrine. So I assumed it would be equally important to YOUR doctrine. If I was wrong, time will tell.
Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2014,06:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:27)
(1) The English word “angel” merely signifies a “spirit messenger of God”.(2) So if Jesus was existing as a spirit being in heaven before emptying himself to be made in the likeness of a human being on earth – what other “class of being” could he have been?
(3) What other spirit messengers are there in heaven, besides “angels”?
Besides, (4) I noticed that you didn't actually oppose the thought that Jesus was existing in heaven before being made in the likeness of a human being. (5) Does that mean you agree with that teaching?
Hi Mike,1) Then your logic surly suggests Jesus became an Angel to appear to Shaool on the road to Damascus
…is this what you are claiming?
2) IFF my Aunt had b*lls, she'd be my Uncle.
3) WHATTT?? What is that suppose to mean?
1. Why would that be a requirement? Angels are only visible to human beings when God opens the eyes of those human beings (or donkeys) to see them. I doubt very much the 185,000 Assyrians the angel of Jehovah killed in one night ever SAW the angel. Just like the soldiers coming to take Elisha to the king weren't able to see the horses and chariots of fire that were all around them.So no, there is no record that Paul saw any FIGURE when Jesus spoke to him from heaven. He just saw a very bright light.
2. That's the kind of dumbass answer I will not tolerate, Ed. Either take it seriously, or take it somewhere else.
3. A simple question. Heaven is full of spirit beings. Those who are sent to others with messages from God are called, in English, “angels”. Do you know of any other kind of spirit messenger in heaven besides “angel”? If so, enlighten me.
If not, then accept the fact that Rev 1:1 PROVES that Jesus is STILL a messenger of his and our God Jehovah – despite the fact that he is now a spirit being. And “Spirit Being + Messenger = Angel”.
Plus, there's this:
Galatians 4:14
Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.But that is for a different discussion. Right now, I'm interested in your “scriptural proof” that the being known as “Jesus of Nazareth” used to actually BE God Almighty. (If I have it wrong, please begin your response with a “Belief Statement”. Correct anything I said wrong about your belief by stating it correctly. Do that first, and THEN begin to explain how you came to that belief.)
Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2014,06:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:33) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2014,01:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2014,13:24)
(1)Plus, the following three scriptures shoot down your “The Word is the Holy Spirit” theory:John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.(2)Those scriptures make it clear that “The Word” is someone completely different than “The Holy Spirit”.
Ed, there are too many holes in your doctrine to count, but (3)tell me who you think said the words of John 6:38.
Hi Mike,1) (Link)
2) No, they don't.
3) John
1. Your link doesn't make those three scriptures I posted disappear, Ed.2. (a) Then please explain how “the Holy Spirit” could say he was going to send a DIFFERENT comforter, who we know was “the Holy Spirit”.
(b) How could “the Holy Spirit made flesh” (John 1:14 – according to you) (c) say he would later SEND “the Holy Spirit”?3. I'm not asking who recorded the conversation. Q: I'm asking who spoke the words that John later recorded in print. What is your REAL answer?
Hi Mike,1) You are right, it certainly doesn't.
1a) We(me and you) are now having multiple topical in-depth conversations,
occurring in this thread and specifically in our last few posts; have you noticed this as well?2a) Simple, it was “the spirit of Christ” sending the Spirit of his Father.
2b) The HolySpirit was FIRST made flesh at the Jordan river, AND AGAIN LATER at “Pentecost”
2c) refer back to 2a3) I was being facetious. A: “the spirit of Christ” (<– this is what we need to discuss)
1. So why list the link as your “answer” then?1a. They are all linked, so that's okay. And this thread is okay for it, since Wakeup has exhausted all his options, and journey goes away for a month every time I back her into a corner with actual SCRIPTURES. So let's continue right here.
2a. So “the spirit of Christ” and “the Spirit of the Father” are both “The Holy Spirit”………. but there are TWO of them? TWO “Holy Spirits”? I don't understand.
2b. The “when” of it is unimportant right now. We'll get to that later.
3. I agree we need to discuss this. I am more interested in this claim than all the others.
So I'll begin: I believe that the very fact John said JESUS said those words tells us that it was indeed JESUS who said them.
Your turn………….
Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2014,06:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2014,01:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2014,13:24)
Ed, there are too many holes in your doctrine to count, but tell me who you think said the words of John 6:38.
Hi Mike,“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38)
The “I” in John 6:38, “I”(Ed J) believe, refers to “the spirit of Christ”;
who came out/begotten from the HolySpirit/GOD.No doubt you will have many questions, I'm looking forward to answering them for you.
I do indeed have many questions. Let's start here:John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.Who said THOSE words?
A. The living, breathing MAN Jesus Christ?
B. The spirit of Christ?
Hi Mike,We can work together better if you let me pick my choices. You have seen personally
the difficulty T8(Judge Dred) had when he falsely believed he could limit my choices …DEAL?
Okay….. up to a point. We'll see how it plays out.But considering that you already told me it was “the spirit of Christ” who said those words, doesn't my B answer work just fine for you?
Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2014,02:39) Quote (Wakeup @ June 23 2014,17:54) Mikeb. 1. *WHY* I wonder do you not believe that *GOD CAN*
give His own Word a form into His own image?2. Why do you believe that it *CAN NOT* happen; and has
not happen?3. Why can God create spirit creatures; BUT CAN NOT
TRANFORM HIS OWN WORD INTO A LIVING BEING?
What is God's propblem Here?4. Why according to you; Can God only create some other
creature to carry His commandments? And *CAN NOT*
make His own Word flesh?5.(a)Why can you not believe John's statement in John 1:1:
and have to change it to satisfy your own undestanding?
ie; In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with
God ;and the Word was God. Why not ask for
understanding; (b)instead of changing God's Word to satisfy
own spirit? Or own EGO?6. Why man always change/twist the scriptures that can not
be understood by man's spirit? Instead of asking God for
guidence to understand?7. Why can you not believe, that God can provide true
seekers with scriptures that are not corrupted?8. Why think; that satan is a better strategist than God?
Has he outsmarted God in that area?wakeup.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,1) I don't understand this question, so I don't know how to respond to it.
God's word became flesh FIRST in Jesus at the Jordan river,
and later in believers SECONDLY at “Pentecost”;
and THIRDLY in all “Born Again” believers.
2) Again your understanding is not clearly defined.3) Yea, what is the problem here? He can certainly do point #3 – because He already has. (ref. 2Cor.6:16)
4) I believe my answer to #3 covers this.
5a) not applicable to me
b) again not applicable6) Answered in previous post
7) again not applicable to me
8) again not applicable to me
OOK – are you satisfied now?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj.Quote
1) I don't understand this question, so I don't know how to respond to it.
God's word became flesh FIRST in Jesus at the Jordan river,
and later in believers SECONDLY at “Pentecost”;
and THIRDLY in all “Born Again” believers.The word came down from heaven,and was made flesh at birth. Not at the jordan.
wakeup.
A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS.
IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of GodQuote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,15:25) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of God
T.The Word of God is not a name.
I am after a name. All creatures have a name.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,11:35) Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2014,06:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:39) Let's start here: John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.Who said THOSE words?
A. The living, breathing MAN Jesus Christ?
B. The spirit of Christ?
Hi Mike,We can work together better if you let me pick my choices. You have seen personally
the difficulty T8(Judge Dred) had when he falsely believed he could limit my choices …DEAL?
Okay….. up to a point. (1)We'll see how it plays out.(2)But considering that you already told me it was “the spirit of Christ” who said those words, doesn't my B answer work just fine for you?
Hi Mike,There's a lot of stuff in your other posts, which I will get to later after I've recharged my batteries.
This one is our starting point, so I would like to address this post first before going on to the others.1) The problem with a predetermined “set of choices” is they are not effectual. Do you understand?
T8 asked me a question, limited to his understanding only, in which neither answer was effectual.2) The problem with your current set of limited choices to pick from is:
answer “B” does not preclude answer “A” – once again ineffectual.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,13:14) Edj. Quote
1) I don't understand this question, so I don't know how to respond to it.
God's word became flesh FIRST in Jesus at the Jordan river,
and later in believers SECONDLY at “Pentecost”;
and THIRDLY in all “Born Again” believers.(1)The word came down from heaven,(2)and was made flesh at birth. (3)Not at the jordan.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,1) Yep
2) When we are Born Again with God's HolySpirit, the word is made flesh at birth; yes.
3) The Word FIRST was made flesh at Jordan, “THEN AGAIN” as the new meat offering.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,15:25) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of God
T.The Word of God is not a name.
I am after a name. All creatures have a name.wakeup.
WIT IS NOT FOR ME TO “MAKE “YOU BELIEVE IT ,IT IS YOU THAT AS TO UNDERSTAND IT ,YOU COULD IF YOU ONLY BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES ,AND TRUST THEM ,SO
THE BALL IS IN YOUR HANDS ,WHAT I KNOW IS UNLESS YOUR FAITH IS TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU DO NOT HAVE A FAITH IN GOD,
WE HAVE SHOWN YOU THE SCRIPTURES ,
Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2014,21:37) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,13:14) Edj. Quote
1) I don't understand this question, so I don't know how to respond to it.
God's word became flesh FIRST in Jesus at the Jordan river,
and later in believers SECONDLY at “Pentecost”;
and THIRDLY in all “Born Again” believers.(1)The word came down from heaven,(2)and was made flesh at birth. (3)Not at the jordan.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,1) Yep
2) When we are Born Again with God's HolySpirit, the word is made flesh at birth; yes.
3) The Word FIRST was made flesh at Jordan, “THEN AGAIN” as the new meat offering.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj.2. You claim to be born again.
Are you a saint now?How can you receive the medal (born again), before you
have reached the finish line?3. The Word was made flesh at birth.
The child was worshipped by the three wise man since
birth.Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, ***they saw the young child with Mary his mother***, ***and fell down, and **worshipped him***:
***and when they had opened their treasures***,
***they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense,
and myrrh***.You are all confused.
wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,22:44) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,15:25) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of God
T.The Word of God is not a name.
I am after a name. All creatures have a name.wakeup.
WIT IS NOT FOR ME TO “MAKE “YOU BELIEVE IT ,IT IS YOU THAT AS TO UNDERSTAND IT ,YOU COULD IF YOU ONLY BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES ,AND TRUST THEM ,SO
THE BALL IS IN YOUR HANDS ,WHAT I KNOW IS UNLESS YOUR FAITH IS TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU DO NOT HAVE A FAITH IN GOD,
WE HAVE SHOWN YOU THE SCRIPTURES ,
T.Lame answer.
You can not come up with a name.
What is the name of the first creature created by the Word?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,20:05) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,22:44) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,15:25) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of God
T.The Word of God is not a name.
I am after a name. All creatures have a name.wakeup.
WIT IS NOT FOR ME TO “MAKE “YOU BELIEVE IT ,IT IS YOU THAT AS TO UNDERSTAND IT ,YOU COULD IF YOU ONLY BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES ,AND TRUST THEM ,SO
THE BALL IS IN YOUR HANDS ,WHAT I KNOW IS UNLESS YOUR FAITH IS TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU DO NOT HAVE A FAITH IN GOD,
WE HAVE SHOWN YOU THE SCRIPTURES ,
T.Lame answer.
You can not come up with a name.
What is the name of the first creature created by the Word?wakeup.
wi know ,you would say that ;but the pharisees did the same thing with Christ ,so it is all in your hands ,
we cannot keep on repeating the same thing over and over again ; you have to set up your mind to either believe it or reject it ,
with the consequences we all know and understand ;
no need to fight over this ;scriptures are their to separate the good from the bad ,the light from the dark,
if you think that you are in the light then show scriptures in truth ,not opinions ;we now are loaded with those ,can take any more opinions that is ,
Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2014,02:43) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,20:05) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,22:44) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,10:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2014,15:25) Quote (Wakeup @ June 24 2014,08:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
The WORD. Of God
T.The Word of God is not a name.
I am after a name. All creatures have a name.wakeup.
WIT IS NOT FOR ME TO “MAKE “YOU BELIEVE IT ,IT IS YOU THAT AS TO UNDERSTAND IT ,YOU COULD IF YOU ONLY BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES ,AND TRUST THEM ,SO
THE BALL IS IN YOUR HANDS ,WHAT I KNOW IS UNLESS YOUR FAITH IS TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU DO NOT HAVE A FAITH IN GOD,
WE HAVE SHOWN YOU THE SCRIPTURES ,
T.Lame answer.
You can not come up with a name.
What is the name of the first creature created by the Word?wakeup.
wi know ,you would say that ;but the pharisees did the same thing with Christ ,so it is all in your hands ,
we cannot keep on repeating the same thing over and over again ; you have to set up your mind to either believe it or reject it ,
with the consequences we all know and understand ;
no need to fight over this ;scriptures are their to separate the good from the bad ,the light from the dark,
if you think that you are in the light then show scriptures in truth ,not opinions ;we now are loaded with those ,can take any more opinions that is ,
T.Running away and making funny noises,is not the way
to go.The Word of God made all things.
That first creature you say was made.
*What is his name*?Don't pretend you do not understand english.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 23 2014,20:24) A QUESTION FOR MIKE B. AND OTHERS. IF JESUS IS THE FIRST CREATED CREATURE,
WHO/WHAT IS HIS NAME?
wakeup.
How many different threads are you going to ask this question in, Wakeup? You know that I and Pierre post in THIS THREAD almost every day. So next time, just ask your question in THIS THREAD – and we will see it. Now I'm going to be having the same discussion with you in three different threads……… and that is no bueno.Forget my answers in the other two threads, and let's just discuss this topic in THIS THREAD, okay?
1. I see no reason to think he wasn't already named “Jesus” before he was made in the likeness of a man. Phil 2:5-8 seem to bear this out, along with other scriptures.
2. Is it important to our salvation to know whether his name was “Jesus” before he came to earth, or if he had a different name in heaven back then? If so, tell me how it is important to us.
3. Since you don't think Jesus was the first being God ever created, then tell me who WAS. And tell me his name. And tell me why it is important for us to know his name.
Wakeup, chances are good that the one called “God's only begotten Son”, and “God's firstborn Son”, and “the firstborn of every creature”, and “the beginning of the creation by God” – is the first being God ever created.
Plus you didn't address my last post to you. You say that at first there was only God. You say that at some point, God caused His literal word to become a living, breathing being. My question is: If this other living, breathing being used to NOT exist, but then God caused him TO exist…… isn't it really a matter of God causing a living, breathing being to come into existence, when he didn't exist before?
And if that is the case, wouldn't that basically fall under the heading of “created”? Because after all, isn't “creation” the act of causing something to exist that didn't exist before?
Quote (Ed J @ June 24, 2014, 4:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2014,03:39) Let's start here: John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.Who said THOSE words?
A. The living, breathing MAN Jesus Christ?
B. The spirit of Christ?
Hi Mike,1) The problem with a predetermined “set of choices” is they are not effectual. Do you understand?
T8 asked me a question, limited to his understanding only, in which neither answer was effectual.2) The problem with your current set of limited choices to pick from is:
answer “B” does not preclude answer “A” – once again ineffectual.
I will keep in mind that you prefer my questions not be “YES or NO” questions, or have multiple answers already listed for you.Now, let's see how well it works doing it YOUR way.
John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.Ed, who said the words above…….. according to the actual scripture itself?
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