Wakeup, journey mike only

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2014,03:14)

Quote (Wakeup @ May 04 2014,01:34)

JESUS DOES NOT FOLLOW AFTER ANOTHER PRIEST.
HE IS HIMSELF ALSO MELCHISEDEK.

You are either confused, or adding your own imaginations into the scriptures…… or both.

Jesus is a King of Israel “after the order of David”. He sits on the throne OF David, right? Yet David Himself called Jesus “my Lord”, right? Jesus is greater than David, right?

Likewise, Jesus is a priest “after the order of Melchizadek”. Yet Jesus isn't Melchizadek any more than Jesus is literally “David, son of Jesse”.

Just like Jesus is greater than David – even though he is a king after the order of David – Jesus is also greater than the earthly priest Melchizadek – even though he is a priest “after the order of Melchizadek”.

Why do you keep adding MORE and MORE of your misunderstandings to this discussion before you've ADDRESSED the previous ones?

Answer those three questions at the top of this page first……… BEFORE you bring more misunderstanding into the discussion, okay?

We're still on Isaiah 9:6, Wakeup. Let's FINISH that one up before moving on to others, okay?

Mike B.

1.Do you believe that there is another king of peace besides Jesus?

2.Do you believe that there is another king of righteousness
besides Jesus?

3.Do you believe that there is another king with no beginning nor end of life?

4.Is Jesus also not of the root of David,of the flesh?

5.He was king of salem before David.Is he not?

wakeup.

May 5, 2014 at 12:45 am#380532

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ May 04 2014,17:55)

Mike B.

1.Do you believe that there is another king of peace besides Jesus?

Jesus is never, in any scripture, called the “King of Peace”. He is, however, called the PRINCE of Peace in Isaiah 9:6.

Wakeup, the Hebrew word “Salem” (actually “shelem”) means “peace”.

So ANYBODY who used to be king of the city named “Salem” was a “King of Peace”. Melchizedek was one such king of that city, but surely there were many others throughout history. Melchizedek was certainly not the ONLY king that city ever had, right? Nor was the “Salem” in Israel the only city named “Salem” in the world. So that adds in a lot more “Kings of Peace”.

And Jerusalem means “city of peace”. So we could even say that Saul, David, Solomon, and a whole slew of others were “Kings of Peace”.

But I'm confused as to why we're even discussing Melchizedek and “King of Peace” right now. We are supposed to be discussing Isaiah 9:6, and how Jesus was called “PRINCE (not “King”) of Peace” in that scripture.

I don't want you to say anything else to me until you've answered the three questions at the top of the previous page.

Do you seriously think this is a good way to discuss scriptures, Wakeup? You spout things, I scripturally show those things to be WRONG, and instead of thanking me and changing your misunderstanding into a truthful understanding, you just ignore the things I showed you and start all over with even more misunderstandings.

This is no good, man. If you can't bring yourself to actually ADDRESS the things I'm saying – things that clearly shoot down your claims – then don't bother to say anything at all.

May 5, 2014 at 1:23 am#380544

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2014,11:45)

[/quote]

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Wakeup,May wrote:

Mike B.

1.Do you believe that there is another king of peace besides Jesus?

Jesus is never, in any scripture, called the “King of Peace”. He is, however, called the PRINCE of Peace in Isaiah 9:6.

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Wakeup, the Hebrew word “Salem” (actually “shelem”) means “peace”.

So ANYBODY who used to be king of the city named “Salem” was a “King of Peace”.

Mike
What you are missing, is the fact this title “King of Peace” is a spiritual one. Salem is of JeruSALEM. There has never been peace there, and when Christ returns he will be the “King of Peace”. The “King of Kings” is “King of All Titles”, and this includes “Peace”

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Melchizedek was one such king of that city, but surely there were many others throughout history. Melchizedek was certainly not the ONLY king that city ever had, right? Nor was the “Salem” in Israel the only city named “Salem” in the world. So that adds in a lot more “Kings of Peace”.

Melchizadek appeared out of no-where, yet Abraham met him, gave him his tithes, and then Melchizadek vanished into thin air. There is no lineage of him recorded as with all the other kings, and in fact their were no other kings at the time, as Saul was the first King of Israel appointed by them. Israel was not even established then during Abrahams time when he met Melchizadek.

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And Jerusalem means “city of peace”. So we could even say that Saul, David, Solomon, and a whole slew of others were “Kings of Peace”.

You cannot call Saul a king of peace. He had an evil spirit in him, and he tried to kill David. God would never give Soul this title. As for David, although God favoured him, David sinned against the Lord, causing the death of that woman's husband. A King of Peace does not lust after another man's wife, nor kill her husband so he can have her.
And as for Solomon, what was his end? After all that wisdom, he was tempted after strange flesh and ended up honouring their gods.

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Because Wakeup is trying to show you that Melchizadek “The Word of God” ….was….'TRANSLATED'… into flesh. Not born yet into flesh, but translated, so that Abraham, God's favourite would get the chance to meet him, and that Jesus Christ (The Word of God) was actually the first King of Israel, and coming back to reclaim his throne, and not take anothers.

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I don't want you to say anything else to me until you've answered the three questions at the top of the previous page.

I'll have a look at your question to Wakeup.

May 5, 2014 at 1:39 am#380551

Participant

mikeboll64,May wrote:

[/quote]
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mike

What don't you understand here?
Jesus is the Word of God. The government of God is upon his shoulder. The Word is all these things described, because it came out of God. You are looking at Jesus being the Son of God (just that side of him), and not WHO HE REALLY IS….. “THE WORD OF GOD”.

Looks like you are also having a problem with the titles “The King of Peace”
and “The Prince of Peace”
One title belongs to God and one title belongs to Christ, am I right?
Well they all belong to God, because Christ stands for everything that God is. He is God's very own Word, and it's this very Word that governs us, and gives us life.
So to us “A Child is born” and a “Son given”, and “the government shall be upon his shoulder” It's this government that comes from God, and the government is “The Word of God”. Everything that comes out of God's mouth will be the law.

I think Wakeup is explaining it very well, but you are getting frustrated because you cannot understand what he is showing you. Just be a little patient, he is trying the best he can to show you, and can explain things better than myself.

I havn't got time right now to go through this whole post, but will back later.

May 5, 2014 at 2:13 pm#380623

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ May 05 2014,07:39)

mikeboll64,May wrote:

Mike

I havn't got time right now to go through this whole post, but will back later.

J42

I believe Mike understand quite well what you guys try to make him understand but what he does not understand is why ,you try so hard to make him understand things that stands against the scriptures ,

and i see that each time he ask you to respond to questions you seem to declare him ignorant in his scriptures understanding why is that

you know no men can raise himself above another the only way to raise yourself is to lower the others ,and this is called ego .

so get rid of your ego ;and assume Mike knows what he is talking about ,and his questions are relevant to bring truth of God more clearly ;if this is not so in your eyes why then not respond with better understanding (not opinions) opinions being lost of commentary but little scriptures to back it up,and degrading comments ,

please guys if you have inside knowledge show it do not try to fool us the readers

May 5, 2014 at 10:32 pm#380693

Participant

Mike B.

These are trivia questions,but what can one expect.

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1. Do you realize that a prince is LOWER than a king? Is the Father really a PRINCE of anything, Wakeup? You said, “NO” before. Have you now changed your mind because you found yourself in a corner?

DO YOU ALSO REALISE THAT JESUS IS ALSO KING OF KINGS,AND LORD OF LORDS? NOT ONLY THAT. FOR GOD ONCE CALLED HIM OH GOD IN HEBREWS.

DONT PLAY WITH WORDS; WE ARE SPEAKING OF MELCHISEDEK AND JESUS; NOT THE FATHER.
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO CAUSE CONFUSION?

WHAT CORNER MIKE. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
NOT BY YOU GUYS.

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2. A priest is a mediator BETWEEN a congregation and the God it serves. Being a priest means you have a God of your own, who you serve as priest. God cannot be a priest, Wakeup.

YES;A PRIEST SERVES GOD ON BEHALF OF HIMSELF, AND HIS FLOCK. SO WHAT IS IT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?
MELCHISEDEK SERVED GOD; AND SO IS JESUS.

MELCHISEDEK=THE WORD *TRANSLATED* INTO FLESH.
JESUS=THE WORD *BORN* OF FLESH.
THE WORD OF GOD,LORD OF LORD,KING OF KINGS = JESUS QUICKENED INTO SPIRIT.

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3. Are you saying that the PERSON we know as Jesus Christ will NOT live forever, like the scriptures say? Instead, that PERSON will cease to exist, and God's literal spoken word will just go back inside of God?

WHY IS IT THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE DEEP INTO THE SPIRIT?

1.THE WORD WAS IN GOD FROM EVERLASTING.
2.THE WORD WAS GIVEN A FORM/SHAPE.
3. THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH. STILL THE SAME WORD
BUT IN FLESH FORM
4. THE FLESH WAS QUICKENED BACK TO SPIRIT FORM.
5. HE WILL RULE ON EARTH FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS.
6. THEN HE WILL GO BACK TO WHERE HE ORIGINALLY
CAME FROM; AND THAT WAS FROM INSIDE GOD.
7. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE CAN NOT VENTURE OUT.
8. THE HS IS ALSO A SPIRIT THAT CAN BE SEND
ANYWHERE BY GOD.

THE WORD OF GOD WAS ALSO MAN ONCE; AND HAD EXPERIENCED SORROWS, PAIN, WICKEDNESS, AND TRIBULATIONS.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

wakeup.

May 5, 2014 at 11:08 pm#380708

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ May 06 2014,04:32)

Mike B.

These are trivia questions,but what can one expect.

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DO YOU ALSO REALISE THAT JESUS IS ALSO KING OF KINGS,AND LORD OF LORDS? NOT ONLY THAT. FOR GOD ONCE CALLED HIM OH GOD IN HEBREWS.

DONT PLAY WITH WORDS; WE ARE SPEAKING OF MELCHISEDEK AND JESUS; NOT THE FATHER.
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO CAUSE CONFUSION?

WHAT CORNER MIKE. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
NOT BY YOU GUYS.

Quote

2. A priest is a mediator BETWEEN a congregation and the God it serves. Being a priest means you have a God of your own, who you serve as priest. God cannot be a priest, Wakeup.

YES;A PRIEST SERVES GOD ON BEHALF OF HIMSELF, AND HIS FLOCK. SO WHAT IS IT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?
MELCHISEDEK SERVED GOD; AND SO IS JESUS.

MELCHISEDEK=THE WORD *TRANSLATED* INTO FLESH.
JESUS=THE WORD *BORN* OF FLESH.
THE WORD OF GOD,LORD OF LORD,KING OF KINGS = JESUS QUICKENED INTO SPIRIT.

Quote

WHY IS IT THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE DEEP INTO THE SPIRIT?

THE WORD OF GOD WAS ALSO MAN ONCE; AND HAD EXPERIENCED SORROWS, PAIN, WICKEDNESS, AND TRIBULATIONS.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

wakeup.

wakeup

Quote

WHY IS IT THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE DEEP INTO THE SPIRIT?

please answer me this

May 5, 2014 at 11:19 pm#380710

Participant

This is the answer.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

This is a shame for not knowing who you really are worshipping.

wakeup.

May 6, 2014 at 12:04 am#380718

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ May 06 2014,05:19)

This is the answer.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

This is a shame for not knowing who you really are worshipping.

wakeup.

wakeup

your knowledge in scriptures are to say the least are questionable ,in some instances you do not make sens ,

and calling other that they do not understand your presentation of your opinions ,and so disqualify them from knowing the truth in scriptures ;

you seem have a long way to go before you can tell that God the father of Christ is in fact your father ,because your knowledge is so far from him that you seem on another planet ,

May 6, 2014 at 12:09 am#380723

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WU
You say
6. THEN HE WILL GO BACK TO WHERE HE ORIGINALLY
CAME FROM; AND THAT WAS FROM INSIDE GOD.

Hmmm

May 6, 2014 at 12:12 am#380724

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WU
6. THEN HE WILL GO BACK TO WHERE HE ORIGINALLY
CAME FROM; AND THAT WAS FROM INSIDE GOD.
7. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE CAN NOT VENTURE OUT.
8. THE HS IS ALSO A SPIRIT THAT CAN BE SEND
ANYWHERE BY GOD.

Very dubious doctrines

May 6, 2014 at 12:34 am#380730

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ May 05 2014,08:13)

Amen.

I enjoyed your posts, Pierre. Good, thoughtful, honest stuff.

May 6, 2014 at 1:04 am#380734

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2014,11:12)

Very dubious doctrines

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

HOW MANY THRONES DO YOU SEE HERE?
DOES IT SAY THRONE OR THRONES?

May 6, 2014 at 1:05 am#380735

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2014,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ May 05 2014,08:13)

Amen.

I enjoyed your posts, Pierre. Good, thoughtful, honest stuff.

Mike

That is just Pierre's OPINION, his honest opinion, but he has provided NOTHING SOLID.

May 6, 2014 at 1:14 am#380736

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,18:12)

Hi WU

6. THEN HE WILL GO BACK TO WHERE HE ORIGINALLY
CAME FROM; AND THAT WAS FROM INSIDE GOD.

Very dubious doctrines

This is what I'm trying to help avoid, journey.

Because of Wakeup's flawed understanding of a few scriptures, we end up without our Lord and Savior and King, Jesus Christ.

But that will NEVER happen. Jesus will exist as Jesus (well, with a new name no one yet knows) for eternity. The being who came to earth and saved us is not going to just disappear back inside God – and cease to exist as our Lord and King.

This is what I'm trying to do here. I try to take one of Wakeup's unscriptural claims, and follow that one claim all the way to the end – to see if it aligns with scripture all the way to the end.

If it doesn't, then he needs to rethink that original claim.

As you can see, Wakeup's claim above does NOT align with Revelation 22:1-5, which says the Lamb will still be there alongside God in New Jerusalem……… after everything is said and done.

So if his end result does not align with scripture, then he needs to ALTER that original belief that caused him to fall out of sync with the scriptures, right?

That's what I'm TRYING to help him do.

May 6, 2014 at 1:24 am#380739

Blocked

Quote (journey42 @ May 05 2014,19:04)

Revelation 22:3
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

HOW MANY THRONES DO YOU SEE HERE?
DOES IT SAY THRONE OR THRONES?

That is just a way of talking/writing, journey. For example:

Matthew 16:12
Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

The Pharisees and the Sadducees had DIFFERENT teachings, journey. So the meaning is, “the teaching of the Pharisees and [the teaching of] the Sadducees”.

In the verse you quoted, the meaning is, “the throne of God and [the throne] of the Lamb”.

There are other scriptural instances of this same way of talking. I can find some more if you'd like me to. But just so we're clear that there will be two thrones:

Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

They each have a throne, journey. In fact, Jesus will rule forever from the “throne of David”, right? Surely Jehovah's throne is not the “throne of David”, is it?

May 6, 2014 at 2:04 am#380753

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ May 06 2014,07:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2014,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ May 05 2014,08:13)

Amen.

I enjoyed your posts, Pierre. Good, thoughtful, honest stuff.

Mike

That is just Pierre's OPINION, his honest opinion, but he has provided NOTHING SOLID.

j42

i did not have to prove solid grounds ,you are my solid ground that proves me right ,

drop your ego not for me but for Christ in your life

May 6, 2014 at 3:04 am#380765

Participant

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Hi journey,

Thanks for coming back.

Pierre is correct that I know EXACTLY what Wakeup has been telling me. It's never been a matter of not knowing WHAT he was claiming. Instead, it has always been a matter of me trying to show him that the things he is claiming are WRONG.

So don't ever think I don't know WHAT you guys are saying. I do. I'm just trying to take the things you guys say down the line of scriptures, so you too can see that they don't add up. My hope is that, after seeing that they don't add up, you might ALTER your understanding to a more scriptural one.

So, we were supposed to be talking about Isaiah 9:6. I'm sure we all agree that the child born to us is Jesus Christ, right?

And I'm sure we all agree that Jesus is a “wonderful counselor”, right?

Our difference lies in the fact that Wakeup believes “mighty god”, “everlasting father”, and “prince of peace” are titles that mean Jesus is our Almighty Everlasting Father in heaven.

Mike

You are welcome.
First of all what does the scripture say again;

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

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(Well, he says these titles apply to Jehovah the Father,

Yes, I'm following. Who else can these titles apply to?

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but then says the Word has never BEEN the Father,

He does not claim that. I have seen his explain to you a zillion times that IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
We are speaking of THE WORD here, before transformed into flesh. THE WORD MIKE. Not Jesus, but THE WORD. Concentrate.

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and never WILL BE the Father.

The WORD became the SON only after he was made flesh. Not before. The Son was the Mediator. So yes, the man Jesus Christ can never be the Father. We cannot change his position and what he did. He was sent as the Son of God.

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Which made me wonder why Jesus would be called by titles that apply to someone he would never be. And that's pretty much where we got mired down in diversion and such.)

Ok, I see where you are coming from.
Wakeup has not explained it to you fully, but is trying to stir your mind up, to put it together for yourself, …that's how he operates….you can't change his tactics. They are actually quite good, and he doesn't hand his pearls out willy nilly, to be tread on. THIS ONE IS A REAL PEARL…which is why he did not answer you directly, but asked you to answer some simple questions first….by you shoving his questions away, because you are so determined to prove YOUR POINT, you only got stuck in the mire. So those questions have to be answered in order to move forward if you want to get to the crux of it.

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So, I showed him that being called a “mighty god” does not equate Jesus with the Most High Almighty God, Jehovah.

Not “A” mighty God Mike, but it states “THE MIGHTY GOD”
….THE…MIGHTY GOD.

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And I showed him, using scriptures, that the word “father” in Hebrew culture was often used for an unrelated benefactor:

Job 29:16 King James Version
I was a father to the poor……..

But this is not the Almighty Father we are talking about is it?
Now you are pulling out a dictionary to explain spiritual things, and using the word FATHER ? a word we all know. We are all speaking english here. If job was like a Father to the poor, then he treated the poor as his own sons. That was the message. Jesus called us brethren, never once called us sons. Jesus proclaimed the Father, his Father and ours.

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So Jesus, who is now eternal, could easily be called our “everlasting BENEFACTOR”, right? Because “everlasting father” can mean “everlasting benefactor” in Hebrew culture, right?

NO. Absolutely not! This is just a wordplay now.
What is the purpose of THE WORD Mike?
Take into consideration that the Word was there from the beginning, always with God. God spoke with HIS WORD, and created everything through HIS WORD. The WORD did not only exist when it was made flesh did it?
No, it was there from EVERLASTING.
So just because THE WORD was transformed into flesh, into the man Jesus Christ we all know, for the very purpose of enabling THE WORD to dwell with us physically, (because the WORD is SPIRIT, and it had to MANIFEST into something (FLESH) so that men could approach him, be near him…
and whilst THE WORD, was in this FLESH STATE, being THE SON OF GOD, who had a FATHER, that he prayed to, and was in constant communication with, cannot be called THE EVERLASTING FATHER, so I believe you are clutching at straws here.

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And I have pointed out to him that our Most High God Jehovah was never called a “prince” of anything.
Well he was called that in Isaiah as stated wasn't he? You yourself admit this got you thinking?

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Which made me wonder why Jesus would be called by titles that apply to someone he would never be….

Yes you started trying to figure it out, in your conscience you know these titles refer to God, but the “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given” and the “Prince of Peace” title, all in the same verse , got you stumped.
So instead of trying to understand what Wakeup has been showing you all this time, that this scripture actually backs up what he is claiming, you are running full speed ahead of yourself, and you are trying to make your understa
nding fit. I don't want to give any more away.

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So, I am trying to show him that ALL of the titles in Isaiah 9:6 apply to the SON who was born to us – and not to our Heavenly Father, Jehovah.

Yes, and that you are trying very hard, but we don't agree with you.

Do you understand those things, journey?[/quote]
I understand what you are claiming from your viewpoint, and according to the knowledge you have, and know this is not an easy one, because it got me stumped for a day or two, years ago, but now I understand the scripture now.

I will leave you to WAKEUP NOW, AS this is supposed to be his discussion with you.
Mike, you know I like you, so don't take offence ok. Just be patient, and answer his questions. If not, you will get nothing out of this but only frustration.

May 6, 2014 at 12:38 pm#380807