Virgin birth

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Kerwin, this is same as claimed by every Christian which is written in the Bible. It is nothing new for us. But the problem with the so called critical doctrines like Virgin Birth, pre-existence are not revealed to anybody. What is the use of so called revelations many claim here on those clear cut concepts of Bible?

[kerwin]

Adam,

I suppose you can blame Matthew for believing in the hidden meanings of Scripture, as far as revealed doctrine, but such a belief is known among the Jews.

Luke merely wrote down the account as he received it.  By the context I am convinced his source was Mary while Matthew's was Joseph.

It was revealed by God to be observed by those witnesses who then reported it to others who write it down.

Preexistence is heresy based misinterpreted Scriptures.

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 03 2010,11:32)

Shimmer ………Quiting smoking is one of the hardest thing anyone can do. I tried for a full year every-way i could and at the end of a year I gave up.  I took it to GOD and told him i was through trying to quit i gave it an honest try, I simple could not quite that nasty habit and I resolved to just die smoking, I ask Him for His Help and i would give it a try one more time and if i failed that was it for me no more trying. I got up from that prayer and Had nearly a full pack of cigarette in my shirt pocket, I was waiting for the erg to hit me again , first a few hours went by then a few days and then a month and Not ONE Desire for a cigarette or any Withdrawal  symptom  it was as if i had never smoked in my life . GOD can remove every effect of Nicotine from you Sis. Some things are Just to strong for Us and I believe when we give up and let go in front of GOD, He moves in and proves what he can do in our lives.Shimmer i Hope God does that for you too, so you can get rid of that life robbing nasty Habit. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

Thanks Gene,  it is hard, so far so good, I wont give up, who needs it ? Not me.

[GeneBalthrop]

Shimmer ………….They say 14 days and the nicotine is out of you blood system, so after that it is just in your mind, but i never made it to the 14 days I have a very addictive personality i think , it is a good thing i never did drugs or no telling what would have happened in my life. But one thing for sure i do know God can remove that or any addiction as fast as you can snap your fingers he did for me.

Shimmer it is a good thing you are doing for you life and no only is it good for You but your whole family, My God give you the mastery over it .

peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Shimmer,

God gives good things to his children. He will give you the character to overcome despite the temptations Satan sends your way. My prayers are with you.

[shimmer]

Thanks and love to you both, its easy, yes I agree, Gene I have an addictive type personality too,

But thanks and its no problem really,

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam………You mention in one of your post about the Spirit of Christ, there is also a problem with that expression , one reason is it can be moved back and forth from describing something other than a person or to the Person Jesus Himself. In my opinion the Spirit of Christ is in fact the Holy Spiirt that was anointing Him. And where it say about Christ was the one following the Israelites in the wilderness that to me is not talking about Jesus the Man at all , But about the (Anointing) that was in all GOD was using to Guide Israel , Moses, the seventy elders , Joshua, and Angles also. It was this same (anointing) Spirit that was that ROCK even back then and that had nothing to do with the Man Jesus, as many presume . Hope this helps to sort it out brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………..gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 04 2010,06:10)

Adam, I suppose you can blame Matthew for believing in the hidden meanings of Scripture, as far as revealed doctrine, but such a belief is known among the Jews. Luke merely wrote down the account as he received it.  By the context I am convinced his source was Mary while Matthew's was Joseph. It was revealed by God to be observed by those witnesses who then reported it to others who write it down. Preexistence is heresy based misinterpreted Scriptures.

Hi brother Kerwin,
I appreciate your patience in replying my un-ending queries on Virgin Birth. But I can't agree the logic of the source for Matthew and Luke as if they were from Jesus' parents. It is mere speculation. I can only say that both the Evangelists depended on their traditions and oral stories that were developed over decades after those actual happenings. You can see how Matthew was keen on applying O.T scriptures by even taking them out of context to prove his Christology. For example he quotes wrong prophet in some cases. He even went to an extent to say Jesus was sitting on two donkeys. Luke was inconsistent in writing historical records like the “census”. Both genealogies of Jesus were fake and disputing even after so much speculation on part of Christianity. The place of abode of Jesus' parents can not be reconciled from both accounts. The list of allegations goes on and on. Let us leave them for others to comment.

Peace to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2010,10:24)

Adam………You mention in one of your post about the Spirit of Christ, there is also a problem with that expression , one reason is it can be moved back and forth from describing something other than a person or to the Person Jesus Himself. In my opinion the Spirit of Christ is in fact the Holy Spiirt that was anointing Him. And where it say about Christ was the one following the Israelites in the wilderness that to me is not talking about Jesus the Man at all , But about the (Anointing) that was in all GOD was using to Guide Israel , Moses, the seventy elders , Joshua, and Angles also. It was this same (anointing) Spirit that was that ROCK even back then and that had nothing to do with the Man Jesus, as many presume . Hope this helps to sort it out brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………..gene

Hi brother Gene,
Thanks for your post above. Infact I mentioned this subject in one of posts to Sis Shimmer under “preexistence”. I know your logic of Spirit of Christ as God's anointing Spirit. But N.T differs with that idea especially John's Gospel where it is mentioned that the Holy Spirit is separate from God and Jesus. Jesus prayed to Father to send the Holy Spirit as another comforter from the Father. But there are many other verses like Gal 4:5-6, Acts 16:7 etc. claim that the Holy Spirit is same as Jesus's Spirit. I mentioned this problem many times under the “Holy Spirit” thread. But no convincing replies so far. Let us wait and see if any more replies under the appropriate thread.

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

[kerwin]

Adam,

You are using the teachings of man to test God's word. Is that wise?

[shimmer]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 04 2010,19:55)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2010,10:24) Adam………You mention in one of your post about the Spirit of Christ, there is also a problem with that expression , one reason is it can be moved back and forth from describing something other than a person or to the Person Jesus Himself. In my opinion the Spirit of Christ is in fact the Holy Spiirt that was anointing Him. And where it say about Christ was the one following the Israelites in the wilderness that to me is not talking about Jesus the Man at all , But about the (Anointing) that was in all GOD was using to Guide Israel , Moses, the seventy elders , Joshua, and Angles also. It was this same (anointing) Spirit that was that ROCK even back then and that had nothing to do with the Man Jesus, as many presume . Hope this helps to sort it out brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………..gene Hi brother Gene, Thanks for your post above. Infact I mentioned this subject in one of posts to Sis Shimmer under “preexistence”. I know your logic of Spirit of Christ as God's anointing Spirit. But N.T differs with that idea especially John's Gospel where it is mentioned that the Holy Spirit is separate from God and Jesus. Jesus prayed to Father to send the Holy Spirit as another comforter from the Father. But there are many other verses like Gal 4:5-6, Acts 16:7 etc. claim that the Holy Spirit is same as Jesus's Spirit. I mentioned this problem many times under the “Holy Spirit” thread. But no convincing replies so far. Let us wait and see if any more replies under the appropriate thread. Thanks and peace to you Adam

Adam, from another thread..I hope the poster doesnt mind.

(quote=JustAskin,Nov. 08 2010,06:02)

You seem not to be able to understand that those of Mankind are composed of two parts…a Spirit, and a body.

The Spirit of Jesus was put into the body of a child. This is not Morphing…
Every human being (Adam apart) is created in the womb from an egg from the female and 'the spirit', the active part, from the sperm, this is human reproduction.
But because there is sin in the 'father' element, the sperm, so to speak, Jesus was created by the seed of Mary and spirited from the Holy Spirit, just as the Scriptures state. This is why he knew his father from his very birth. Why he says God told him what he should say, instructed him, he says of himself, 'i can only do what I see my father doing', and ,'I can only say what he told me to say'.

Maybe that will help ? This is who I have got answers to things I never understood.

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 06 2010,08:46)

Adam, You are using the teachings of man to test God's word.  Is that wise?

Hi brother Kerwin,
Which is God's word you tell me brother what the writer of Matthew or Luke claimed? If it is really God's word why there are so many errors and contradictions in our Bible? I can only say it is mere human word spoken about God so we have to apply human wisdom. I don't think I have committed any blunder here.

Peace to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 08 2010,06:48)

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 04 2010,19:55) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 04 2010,10:24) Adam………You mention in one of your post about the Spirit of Christ, there is also a problem with that expression , one reason is it can be moved back and forth from describing something other than a person or to the Person Jesus Himself. In my opinion the Spirit of Christ is in fact the Holy Spiirt that was anointing Him. And where it say about Christ was the one following the Israelites in the wilderness that to me is not talking about Jesus the Man at all , But about the (Anointing) that was in all GOD was using to Guide Israel , Moses, the seventy elders , Joshua, and Angles also. It was this same (anointing) Spirit that was that ROCK even back then and that had nothing to do with the Man Jesus, as many presume . Hope this helps to sort it out brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………..gene Hi brother Gene, Thanks for your post above. Infact I mentioned this subject in one of posts to Sis Shimmer under “preexistence”. I know your logic of Spirit of Christ as God's anointing Spirit. But N.T differs with that idea especially John's Gospel where it is mentioned that the Holy Spirit is separate from God and Jesus. Jesus prayed to Father to send the Holy Spirit as another comforter from the Father. But there are many other verses like Gal 4:5-6, Acts 16:7 etc. claim that the Holy Spirit is same as Jesus's Spirit. I mentioned this problem many times under the “Holy Spirit” thread. But no convincing replies so far. Let us wait and see if any more replies under the appropriate thread. Thanks and peace to you Adam Adam, from another thread..I hope the poster doesnt mind. (quote=JustAskin,Nov. 08 2010,06:02) You seem not to be able to understand that those of Mankind are composed of two parts…a Spirit, and a body. The Spirit of Jesus was put into the body of a child. This is not Morphing… Every human being (Adam apart) is created in the womb from an egg from the female and 'the spirit', the active part, from the sperm, this is human reproduction. But because there is sin in the 'father' element, the sperm, so to speak, Jesus was created by the seed of Mary and spirited from the Holy Spirit, just as the Scriptures state. This is why he knew his father from his very birth. Why he says God told him what he should say, instructed him, he says of himself, 'i can only do what I see my father doing', and ,'I can only say what he told me to say'. Maybe that will help ? This is who I have got answers to things I never understood.

Hi Sis,
Thanks for your post above. But I can't agree the logic of male sperm carries sin and not female egg. If at all original sin was there (which I don't agree) whether male or female they pass on sin through their genes which form the body of their child. Your logic of saying Jesus was conscious about his father was not the result of his so called virgin birth but by the filling of Holy spirit at his baptism which all believers experience as there are led by God's spirit in general and with Jesus in particular. Believe me Virgin Birth was not at all required for Jesus to be sinless if he was really tempted and proved without sin. It was not this so called Virgin Birth that made him sinless but his obedience to God's Spirit in following His guidence for not committing sin.

Love and peace to you
Adam

[shimmer]

Hi Adam,

The way I see things, we are all individuals, all are different.

Example, I listen to JustAskin when I dont know things, and I feel ok with what he says, so I will believe that, because yes, there are things I dont have the answer to. So I will believe with what I have come to understand with some help. And from there, move on.

I know scripture says not to follow man, but i do believe God does send help sometimes, believe me, I have followed the wrong people many times and been warned. So I learnt.

But we are all different. Adam, what do You believe the virgin birth to mean ? Do you believe in the virgin birth ? Its one of those things where there are many different opinions.

[terraricca]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 08 2010,22:08)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 06 2010,08:46) Adam, You are using the teachings of man to test God's word.  Is that wise? Hi brother Kerwin, Which is God's word you tell me brother what the writer of Matthew or Luke claimed? If it is really God's word why there are so many errors and contradictions in our Bible? I can only say it is mere human word spoken about God so we have to apply human wisdom. I don't think I have committed any blunder here. Peace to you Adam

Adam

you are guided by your own reflection,
if what you say is true then nothing in this world is true,

and God would be a liar,THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE,

SO i thing God is strong enough to have inspired all men to do the work in the translation of his word,so that it is has he wanted to be,to be useful to his true believers,

this i testify to as being true,

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 08 2010,15:08)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 06 2010,08:46) Adam, You are using the teachings of man to test God's word.  Is that wise? Hi brother Kerwin, Which is God's word you tell me brother what the writer of Matthew or Luke claimed? If it is really God's word why there are so many errors and contradictions in our Bible? I can only say it is mere human word spoken about God so we have to apply human wisdom. I don't think I have committed any blunder here. Peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

Mathew was originally written in Aramaic.
But we did not know that until a copy in Aramaic was found.

Most Bibles have the Matthew translated from the Greek,
A translation of a translation explains Matthew's errors.
Like an ass and a colt. (Matt.21:2)

While Mark Luke and Zech. only have a colt. (Mark 11:2-7 / Luke 19:30 / Zech. 9:9)

Also witness discrepancies are quite normal as well.
Both of these type of discrepancies actually add credibility to “The Bible”!

Fraudulent books would never make such obvious blunders!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Adam,

Are those contradictions really contradiction or are they places our sinful nature and/or false knowledge lead us the see false contradictions.

Are they important to the message of salvation?

These are some questions that should be addressed.

[gollamudi]

Hi brothers Pierre, Ed J and Kerwin,
Sorry I had offended you by my offencive comments on Bible. But I am only questioning its inerrancy and inspiration. Yes inerrancy and inspiration are much needed for our salvation as our brother Kerwin is interested. I find Bible much errant and uninspiring by reading the scriptures. It is filled with myths and fables than truth. Take for example the story of Jesus' parents escaping to Egypt but the writer of Matthew forgotten about Jesus' cousin John who was also of two years age at that time whereas Luke ignores this story all together. Luke says Jesus' parents were from Nazareth than Bethlehem as alleged by Matthew. Mark could not mention proper name of high priest at the time of David's escape from Saul. Can God be behind such silly mistakes of these writers? What happened to those saints who were alleged to be resurrected from the dead before Jesus as claimed by Matthew which no other writer noticed all together? The so called personal witness, John never heard a word that Jesus uttered on the cross saying “Eli Eli Lama Sabaktani/Eloi Eloi Lama Sabaktani” as claimed by other three. He cleverly leaves out that to avoid his Jesus to be victorious who could only utter “It is finished” These writers had different agendah behind their writings than uttering God's inspired words. The list goes on and on…I don't blame God for these human errant writers who framed the Gospels out of their traditions and oral stories that were developed for decades after their alleged happenings. No two writers agree on many incidents of Jesus' biography even if they copied from each other. Know the reason why?

I am sorry brothers this is the fate of my religion. It could not give me proper reasons for all such errors and contradictions.
Yet I wish peace to you
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam……….Brother, i do agree with you that thee is many errors in scripture, but no two people can describe the same event the same way in nearly all cases so some allowances must be made , that is why it says the ” The Sum of God word is truth” we do need to put them together to draw a proper picture, that i will agree, but as the saying goes you don't through out the baby with the wash. So we need to properly determine and divide the word of truth. I think we can With GOD'S Spirit of Truth guiding us brother. When you bring things into question it shows the Spirit of Truth working in You and it behooves you to help enlighten us also brother. Don't let any of those quires cause you to Lose FAITH in GOD and Jesus Christ our Lord Brother, that is the main thing. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………..gene

[shimmer]

Adam,

Im so sorry if it may seem to you I have changed, in the way I speak, compared to the other times.

I have feelings for people sometimes, and I pray for help…to help, and I felt that with you, and I still do.

But there are different times for different things. Right now, you have questions, which I cant answer, so I guess I may seem different…thinking more. But Adam, im finding my own answers too.

I (now) believe Jesus – before being Jesus – was an Angel being. It makes more sense to me. And untill now nothing did make sense, and iv been believing all types of things, since about 5 years ago. But Adam, thats where I have arrived at. I feel comfortable with that, so I need to stick with it.

I hope you are feeling ok Adam, and I hope you are feeling more at peace. How are you feeling ?

[Author]

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