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Jesus was intended to bridge the gap that was between God and Humanity.
God was not born like us, so our identity to him is totally different.
But Jesus being God's Son, and kin to mankind happened through a virgin birth.
He being related to The Father, yet related to mankind through Mary and being born as a human.
This now bridges the gap and instead of keeping mankind as a CREATION of God we are now his kin.
This should overjoy everyone that we now are heir to The Supreme Creator of all things.
So please do not denote God's work and question The Virgin Birth…you should rejoice in the good news, not question it.
AmenQuote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:31) Jesus was intended to bridge the gap that was between God and Humanity. God was not born like us, so our identity to him is totally different.
But Jesus being God's Son, and kin to mankind happened through a virgin birth.
He being related to The Father, yet related to mankind through Mary and being born as a human.
This now bridges the gap and instead of keeping mankind as a CREATION of God we are now his kin.
This should overjoy everyone that we now are heir to The Supreme Creator of all things.
So please do not denote God's work and question The Virgin Birth…you should rejoice in the good news, not question it.
Amen
I don't know if you bekieve in the preexsisting of Jesus before He became a Human Being.
Some might think that He was nothing special, and that is the fardest from the truth. When we kow that all have fallen short of the gorly of God IMO if He would be lke us, was under that too. However Jesus is the begotten Son of God, the literal Son of God while we are the Adopted Sons of God.
He is of God, He came forh from God. He is the firstborn over all creation. Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14.
He did not live forever lie His Father tho.
Peace nd Love IreneNever said he always existed, no one knows that but The Father and himself.
But Jesus DID pre-exist creation for he was born before creation so that creation could be made through him.
The actual time before creation, could be a moment shorter than a second, to a timeline that we could never fathom…
All we know is that he pre-existed creation…and remember God created time, so he is not subject to it.
So Jesus always existing with The Father could be closer to the truth than you think.
When you say all have fallen short I would not include Jesus in that statement because the Bible also states Jesus was sinless.
All have fallen short BECAUSE of sin, but since Jesus was sinless he could not have been included in that list.
The Sole reason he was used as the sacrificial lamb because he was spotless.
All have fallen short because the sins of the father are passed down to the children to the 3rd and 4th generation of those who hate God.
You know whats wierd about that?
THE SINS OF THE FATHER ARE PASSED DOWN, not the mother.
Jesus' Father is God himself…who had no sins…no wonder Jesus didn't sin.
But in mankind our biological, blood, human father is Adam.
When we go into Jesus, we are adopted by YHWH…with Jesus as our eldest brother.
AmenIrene wrote:
Quote kerwin Jesus did pre-existed His Birth here on earth. He knew were He came from, and what would be at stake if He sinned.
There very good Scriptures that tell me so.
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
And the one were Jesus Himself said this
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me tougher with Yourself with the glory I has with You, before the World was.”
Peace an Love IreneI believe that is was Peter who stated that some scripture is hard to understand and the ones you name are such. I do not know why the writers of scripture chose to coach their words in such language. They had their reasons but it is confusing to modern ears. I believe that to some point the translators were also confused by that as well as by their own biases. In other words I understand those scriptures differently than you do. I do not believe this is the appropriate thread to discus it and I believe we have discussed it in the pass. If God so wills we may also discus it again in the future. Until then we should each go to God to either confirm what we believe is true or to lead us to believe what is really true. In this way God may choose to bless us.
Hi RM,
Could he have sinned?
Heb4.15We follow one like us but who did not sin despite the same temptations we get-from within[Jas]
TO All………….anyone who does not see Jesus exactly as there self, simply can not have a truly intimate relationship with Him. Nor can they truly appreciate His sacrifice and challenges He had to overcome. Only a superficial relationship based of someone they really can not relate or identify with. This separation was caused by the false teachings of the Trinity and Preexistence doctrines. Giving Jesus preexistence advantages as a super being or demigod is it self a separation between us and Him. Jesus was (EXACTLY) LIKE US IN EVERY WAY. He had (NO) advantage over US , God the FATHER took an ordinary HUMAN BEING and Perfected HIM and saved Him and raised Him from the dead. (EXACTLY AS HE CAN DO FOR US). Salvation is not about what Jesus can do , It's what GOD the FATHER can DO with ordinary Human beings. ONE GOD IN (ALL) AND THROUGH (ALL). IMO
gene
gene
Gene wrote:
Quote It does seem that Paul would have mentioned this berth process if it was truly different then ours
I am going to disagree with that conclusion. I will say that if it were important to what he was teaching then he would have mentioned it but we only have a limited amount of even what Paul was teaching. I do not believe it is directly part of the message of salvation but it may reflect on that message in ways I do not presently understand and in ways Paul nor other writers of scriptures needed to address.
Luke stated that “Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us” so I believe the gospels only serve as a bibliography of Jesus life while he walked in his tent of perishable flesh among us and shortly thereafter until he ascended to heaven.
They are most likely not an attempt to prove he is the Anointed One since the people they were directed to already believe Jesus is the Messiah. They were more a question of church history just like some like to know their family history.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2009,23:28) Gollamudi, I thought you directed me to Acts 2 to show me that it did mention that Jesus was baptized in the Jordon River but I do not see it there. Do you know anywhere in the book of Acts where Jesus’ baptism is mentioned?
I don’t believe it is and yet that does not mean it did not happen. All it means is that that point was not addressed in the book of Acts.
The same is true of any other event that is mentioned elsewhere but not in the book of Acts.
Hi brother Kerwin, sorry it is not in Acts 2 but in 1Here is the verse from Acts 1:
22 “beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” (ISV)Peter knew only the 'Jesus' who was Baptised by John, crucified and resurrected not any virgin born Jesus.
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,03:25) Adam……….You have brought out some good points, and so has Kerwin. I also believe that the virgin berth story tends to give Jesus a separate individualizing from Us and can cause a separation in our identity with Him as a true Brother Human Being. I have said before that our identity with the exactness of Jesus is critical in our relating with him and GOD the FATHERS work in an ordinary human beings. It does seem that Paul would have mentioned this berth process if it was truly different then ours. Interesting Posts. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Hi brother Gene,
Thank you very much for such understanding. I know I am not alone in this battle of critical study our N.T. There is no necessity of special birth for our Messiah since God is the one who enabled him not to sin. God can choose a even bastard (born of illegal birth) no need for such alleged virgin birth which was developed by Hellenistic Gospel writers.Peace and love to you
AdamHi GM,
If you have proof the Words of scripture have been tampered with to teach this please lay your cards on the table.Offering insinuations that are baseless only cause you to deny the work of the Spirit of God among men.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 14 2009,07:22) Irene wrote: Quote kerwin Jesus did pre-existed His Birth here on earth. He knew were He came from, and what would be at stake if He sinned.
There very good Scriptures that tell me so.
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
And the one were Jesus Himself said this
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me tougher with Yourself with the glory I has with You, before the World was.”
Peace an Love IreneI believe that is was Peter who stated that some scripture is hard to understand and the ones you name are such. I do not know why the writers of scripture chose to coach their words in such language. They had their reasons but it is confusing to modern ears. I believe that to some point the translators were also confused by that as well as by their own biases. In other words I understand those scriptures differently than you do. I do not believe this is the appropriate thread to discus it and I believe we have discussed it in the pass. If God so wills we may also discus it again in the future. Until then we should each go to God to either confirm what we believe is true or to lead us to believe what is really true. In this way God may choose to bless us.
Hi brother Kerwin,
I appreciate such honest confession that the people wrote N.T and those who translated are some times biased. They are fearless people they could go to any extent in twisting the scriptures for their own theology. That's why are all these denominations and sects in Christianity.Please read Bible with Jewish eyes than with such biased Hellenistic Christian eyes.
Peace to you
AdamHi brother Nick,
Please read brother Kerwin's post which I quoted above. I am not alone who is pointing out errors in our N.T.gollamudi wrote:
Quote Peter knew only the 'Jesus' who was Baptized by John, crucified and resurrected not any virgin born Jesus.
You are going too far to say all that though you are correct that Jesus’ baptism by John is mentioned. You will notice it is only mentioned because it is relevant to the subject at hand that Peter is speaking of since Jesus had no disciples previously to his Baptism by John.
The question now is why the writers would address Jesus’ childhood, conception, or even early adult life unless they were doing a bibliography?
Mary, Jesus’ mother is briefly mentioned in Acts along with Jesus’ brothers. I did not see a mention of Joseph in any New Testament books other than the Gospels. Does that mean he does not exist?
Your argument about the virgin birth is equivalent to the argument put forth by the Church of Christ to justify their ban on musical instruments in the church building. They teach that if it is not in the New Testament then it is not allowed. I don’t think they necessary follow that teaching in all things.
Please notice what I wrote to Gene earlier today as it also has a bearing on our discussion.
Hi GM,
You are not the oracle who decides what is true and what is not.
You are not greater than the God Who wrote it through men so show good evidence, not opinion.Flaws of Luke:
The Gospel According to St. Luke, Chapter 1, Verse 34.34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
You see Mary was aware of the fact that without a man's help she could not have a child. Where Mary received her sex education I do not know
Do you think is there truth in Luke's infant narrations?
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 14 2009,18:02) Flaws of Luke:
The Gospel According to St. Luke, Chapter 1, Verse 34.34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
You see Mary was aware of the fact that without a man's help she could not have a child. Where Mary received her sex education I do not know
Do you think is there truth in Luke's infant narrations?
I received some of mine from the animals on the farm I lived on.
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